Is all powder measure created equally?

[Darth-Vang]

Do all the volumetric brass powder measure throw the same charges equally or is it rated for different powder granules?

 

[arcticap]

IMO they are all basically the same.
The reason I believe this is because the grain weight of water and Goex black powder are virtually identical for a given volume.
That means that companies can design their powder measures using a standard grain weight of water capacity which is the same everywhere in the world.
100 grains of water by weight and volume basically equals 100 grains of weight and volume of Goex.
Yes, there's a very tiny difference between water and black powder, but not enough to matter when using a volumetric powder measurer.

What is probably more important is how the volumetric measure is used.
That is if a person taps the measure to settle the powder before leveling it off each time or not.
Using a consistent and repeatable measuring method can make more of a difference than the measure itself.

A slight difference can result from the quality of a manufacturer, and how they mark their measures, but how many different measures does a person use?
Is a long thin measure more or less accurate than a short wide measure?
If one design were more accurate for measuring 1F, 2F or 3F, then that would seem to require a scientific study to be able to prove.
Larger powder granulations are always going to have a little more air space in between the individual granules, which may make measuring them slightly less accurate than more compact powder granulations.
A person would need to weigh some of their powder charges with different powders in order to draw conclusions.
And even then some powders like Swiss are considered to be denser and contain more moisture, so the volume to actual weight wouldn't be the same as for Goex.

In that respect, the volumetric measures are calibrated for measuring powders that have a volume weight more closely equaling the same volume weight of water.
You don't see the measure labeled as being calibrated as a Goex powder measure or a Swiss powder measure.
But there's probably a bias built into them because drier powders are more common than dense and moist sporting powders like Swiss.
The percentage of moisture affects a powder's potency, and the moisture content of a brand is pretty strictly regulated so that they can produce a consistent product.

Folks are trained by experience to make the adjustments to their powder measure when switching brands of powder or changing granulations to offset potency differences.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

My experience is that commercially available BP measurers are only approximate.
Also, like arcticap mentioned, different powders are different weight, and can be packed to varying density.
I don't recall any of the commercial measurers I have actually throwing the same load be it a fixed or adjustable meassurer.
Part of that could be because they are different diameters and or different shapes and made of different materials.
That said, I'm fine with that. I work up a load and as long as I use the same powder and the same measurer the load is good.
My guns don't seem to care if the meassurer says its 80 grains or 85.
I would not rely on a volume measurement with a new to you measurer throwing a load identical to a volume measurement from another measurer even if the measurers are marked with the same weight.

 

[arcticap]

I would not rely on a volume measurement with a new to you measurer throwing a load identical to a volume measurement from another measurer even if the measurers are marked with the same weight.

Beware of the man who only has one powder measure because he probably knows how to use it very well!

I have more than one of the same TC hunter powder measures.
It's not even marked in less than 10 grain increments, just estimate the 1/2 way mark in between the lines.


https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting...-powder-measure-hunter-20-120-grains/p/308804

 

[Thomasss]

BE aware there is some confusion over measurements when it comes to pellets. Pellets do not conform to granular measurements. The older styled 50 grain pellets where one might drop 3, 50 grain pellets in a .50 cal load does not equal 150 grains of granular powder. That is a lot hoopla. Some advertising hype makes you think you can down a T-rex with that load.

 

[Darth-Vang]

IMO they are all basically the same.
The reason I believe this is because the grain weight of water and Goex black powder are virtually identical for a given volume.
That means that companies can design their powder measures using a standard grain weight of water capacity which is the same everywhere in the world.
100 grains of water by weight and volume basically equals 100 grains of weight and volume of Goex.
Yes, there's a very tiny difference between water and black powder, but not enough to matter when using a volumetric powder measurer.

What is probably more important is how the volumetric measure is used.
That is if a person taps the measure to settle the powder before leveling it off each time or not.
Using a consistent and repeatable measuring method can make more of a difference than the measure itself.

A slight difference can result from the quality of a manufacturer, and how they mark their measures, but how many different measures does a person use?
Is a long thin measure more or less accurate than a short wide measure?
If one design were more accurate for measuring 1F, 2F or 3F, then that would seem to require a scientific study to be able to prove.
Larger powder granulations are always going to have a little more air space in between the individual granules, which may make measuring them slightly less accurate than more compact powder granulations.
A person would need to weigh some of their powder charges with different powders in order to draw conclusions.
And even then some powders like Swiss are considered to be denser and contain more moisture, so the volume to actual weight wouldn't be the same as for Goex.

In that respect, the volumetric measures are calibrated for measuring powders that have a volume weight more closely equaling the same volume weight of water.
You don't see the measure labeled as being calibrated as a Goex powder measure or a Swiss powder measure.
But there's probably a bias build into them because drier powders are more common than dense and moist sporting powders like Swiss.
The percentage of moisture affects a powder's potency, and the moisture content of a brand is pretty strictly regulated so that they can produce a consistent product.

Folks are trained by experience to make the adjustments to their powder measure when switching brands of powder or changing granulations to offset potency differences.

My experience is that commercially available BP measurers are only approximate.
Also, like arcticap mentioned, different powders are different weight, and can be packed to varying density.
I don't recall any of the commercial measurers I have actually throwing the same load be it a fixed or adjustable meassurer.
Part of that could be because they are different diameters and or different shapes and made of different materials.
That said, I'm fine with that. I work up a load and as long as I use the same powder and the same measurer the load is good.
My guns don't seem to care if the meassurer says its 80 grains or 85.
I would not rely on a volume measurement with a new to you measurer throwing a load identical to a volume measurement from another measurer even if the measurers are marked with the same weight.

BE aware there is some confusion over measurements when it comes to pellets. Pellets do not conform to granular measurements. The older styled 50 grain pellets where one might drop 3, 50 grain pellets in a .50 cal load does not equal 150 grains of granular powder. That is a lot hoopla. Some advertising hype makes you think you can down a T-rex with that load.

I really appreciate the info you guys are stuffing into my brain. Now I know. I have like 3-5 different powder measure but only used like 1-2 of them. Learn something new everyday.

 

[arcticap]

I really appreciate the info you guys are stuffing into my brain. Now I know. I have like 3-5 different powder measure but only used like 1-2 of them. Learn something new everyday.

Maybe you'll discover that you have a lucky powder measure for a particular gun, load or purpose.
And then once you have it set you won't need to move it because you have all of the other measures to play with.
Just like some folks have different possibles bags for different guns, you can specialize with your powder measures.

 

[Gordon]

I just received two brass micrometer measures for a Belding and Mull measure I have in perfect condition with two new cannisters and a long drop tube. Am gonna make up a bicycle wheeled shooting cart with this measure and a pistol and rifle loading stand attached and room for possibles and pistols and rifles attached . My winter project. Any advice on using the old Belding and Mull measure for dropping black powder ? The canisters are plastic, the measure is steel , and the detachables are brass. I don't think static is a danger , is it ?

 

[whughett]

IMO they are all basically the same.
The reason I believe this is because the grain weight of water and Goex black powder are virtually identical for a given volume.
That means that companies can design their powder measures using a standard grain weight of water capacity which is the same everywhere in the world.
100 grains of water by weight and volume basically equals 100 grains of weight and volume of Goex.
Yes, there's a very tiny difference between water and black powder, but not enough to matter when using a volumetric powder measurer.

What is probably more important is how the volumetric measure is used.
That is if a person taps the measure to settle the powder before leveling it off each time or not.
Using a consistent and repeatable measuring method can make more of a difference than the measure itself.

A slight difference can result from the quality of a manufacturer, and how they mark their measures, but how many different measures does a person use?
Is a long thin measure more or less accurate than a short wide measure?
If one design were more accurate for measuring 1F, 2F or 3F, then that would seem to require a scientific study to be able to prove.
Larger powder granulations are always going to have a little more air space in between the individual granules, which may make measuring them slightly less accurate than more compact powder granulations.
A person would need to weigh some of their powder charges with different powders in order to draw conclusions.
And even then some powders like Swiss are considered to be denser and contain more moisture, so the volume to actual weight wouldn't be the same as for Goex.

In that respect, the volumetric measures are calibrated for measuring powders that have a volume weight more closely equaling the same volume weight of water.
You don't see the measure labeled as being calibrated as a Goex powder measure or a Swiss powder measure.
But there's probably a bias built into them because drier powders are more common than dense and moist sporting powders like Swiss.
The percentage of moisture affects a powder's potency, and the moisture content of a brand is pretty strictly regulated so that they can produce a consistent product.

Folks are trained by experience to make the adjustments to their powder measure when switching brands of powder or changing granulations to offset potency differences.

Dang that post is approaching essay length. Nice read.
As many shooters use a finger or thumb over the nozzle can we add depth of divot created by said digit that decreases the volume.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

..., What is probably more important is how the volumetric measure is used.
That is if a person taps the measure to settle the powder before leveling it off each time or not.
Using a consistent and repeatable measuring method can make more of a difference than the measure itself....,

..., If one design were more accurate for measuring 1F, 2F or 3F, then that would seem to require a scientific study to be able to prove.

Exactly right. Consistency is the key, especially if you used patched round ball, AND even more so if you are shooting past 100 yards.

The other thing about black powder, is that it's rather inefficient. So..., while you may find some adjustable powder measures with 5 grain markings (likely for a cap-n-ball revolver), you will find a lot of rifle and shotgun measures are marked off in 10 grains as more than 5 grains tends to be needed to get a significant change in impact placement and speed. So beyond 100 yards, and for folks very serious about their scores on targets at 100 yards, yes..., a measure that is super accurate for their granulation (2Fg 3Fg), and brand (GOEX, Swiss, Scheutzen) will be important. But for most of us..., figure out what setting on your measure gives you the best accuracy at your max range. Then stay with that.

So I have a "fixed" measure, which are sometimes called a "charger". I used the adjustable measure to find out in my case, that 70 grains of 3Fg works very well for my .54, so I then made a non adjustable measure that holds that same volume. I never need to worry that something has caused the plunger to move in my charger, since it doesn't have any moving parts. IS IT actually 70 grains of GOEX 3Fg, or is it 68 grains, or is it 73 grains ? I don't know as I've never put it on an actual powder scale to check. It matters not. The rifle with that load shoots very well out to 100 yards. IF I miss, then I screwed-up something; the load didn't fail.

OH and IF you really get interested in the best possible group on targets, you may then want to start to weigh your projectiles. Consistent weight can ensure a round ball is truly round, and there are no hidden air pockets within to cause the ball to track off the normal flight path. But that's another topic....,

LD