Is bullet lube smoke bad for you?
- Thread starter warnerwh
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Sunray
Member
Buy a mask. One of the inexpensive masks sold for painters will do nicely. Any hardware store.
Kernel
Member
Is nitrous oxide bad for you? Gunsmoke must contain nitrous, because it makes me smile, and smile, and smile......
Sometimes I even laugh out loud.
Sometimes I even laugh out loud.
Roccobro
Member
Prolly not GOOD for you. But I doubt it's any worse than the micro lead particles you'd intake at any range your shooting at.
Justin
Justin
I've enjoyed the smell of gunpowder since I was in high school which was about 40 years ago. It had just dawned on me that maybe there are some hazards although I've been around shooting so much and never heard of any significant problems.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Naa, the lube isn't harmful. Up until a few years ago much of the lube was some form of Beeswax. (well, maybe it's been longer)
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Laughing is inhalation of lead gasses is not terribly wise. Gunsmoke may contain some nitrous, but bullet smoke from cast bullets contains a LOT more lead than bullet smoke from FMJ and that contains more lead than bullet smoke from TMJ or non-lead ammo.
Lead is introduced as vapor via melting away of the base during firing and via friction produced going down the barrel and blasting out by the hot gasses that propel the bullet.
Needs to be rated for lead fumes. The cheapest I have found are in the $20-40 price range with filter replacements running around $15.
Saint Dennis
Member
Well I don't care if I do die, do die, do die, do die
jcwit
member
If one is getting lead fumes from casting the lead melt is WAY, WAY to high. Vaporisation isnt going to occur till you get up to 1000 degrees Fahrenheit.
I sure would like to see a study of just exactly how much lead is lost from melting of the powder gases in a gun barrel. My personal thoughts (which mean nothing other than my own opinion) is that it is such a small amount it means nothing.
I think most lead is picked up "inhaled" from primer residue.
And in regards to lead dust, that stuff is so light its just floating all over the place. Ya Right!!!
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
It's only bad for you in California.
It's O.K. everywhere else.
rc
It's O.K. everywhere else.
rc
TheotherMikeG
Member
I enjoy the smell of bullet lube and 2400 about as much as anyone possibly could. Bullseye is nice too. Life is fatal, enjoy yourself!
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Anything enjoyable is bad for you! The effects of lead are accumulative, so the more you breathe casting or bullet vapor or primer dustc an accunulate. Best advice is lotsa ventilation, shoot outdoors if possible. Find a range with good xhaust fans. Wear a mask, all help. Ive got a big backyard so I just shoot outdoors. But remember if its fun itll hurt you.
Roccobro
Member
I wish I had more room in my sigline!! lol
Justin
LiveLife
Member
Too funny rcmodel! Maybe that's why we act so crazy here 
(I have been handling/inhaling lead all of my life)
Well, our indoor range has addressed the lead issue in the way of not using an angled steel plate back drop - they use ground tire bead mound instead and a very powerful ventilation system (It's like shooting in a strong breeze coming from your back). When you shoot lubed lead bullets, the smoke from the firing is immediately pushed down range. The range staff (who also own another range in neighboring state) confirms that shooting lead is permissible. I also shot at other California indoor ranges with steel plated back drops and they do not allow shooting of lead bullets, only jacketed or plated bullets (more on plated bullets later).
I work as a state health facilities inspector/surveyor and is the office respirator fit tester and it is my opinion that minimizing lead splatter and not inhaling lead vapor is the key. As long as the indoor ranges have good ventilation system, I believe harmful levels of exposure to lead vapor may be minimized. As to lead vapor venting to outside atmosphere, I do not believe regulations exist to mandate filtering before venting. If there were any established lead vapor concerns, I am quite certain OSHA/Cal-OSHA signs would be all over the indoor ranges.
I think the concern over lead may be more applicable to outdoor ranges shooting steel plates. I also shoot at several outdoor ranges for recreation/match shooting, and over time, more and more cardboard targets have been used and less and less steel plates for staging of targets. Even with good breeze, often it changes direction and the smoke/dust blows right back in our faces. Examining areas immediately adjacent to steel plates showed definite lead splatter, but surprisingly more from softer copper plated bullets than harder cast bullets (I shoot cast bullets with hardness of 18-24 - I think harder the better). The splattered lead fragments and dust on the ground may over time be picked up as wind blows and be breathed in. With the use of cardboard targets, bullets are mostly embedded in the dirt berms where they are less likely to fragment/dust and provide for safer outdoor shooting.
I do not believe wearing of masks in indoor range is practical. For actual filtering of lead vapor, respirator with filter cartrige rating specific to lead vapor is required and disposable paper masks (even N95) will help but not provide that level of protection.
(I have been handling/inhaling lead all of my life)Well, our indoor range has addressed the lead issue in the way of not using an angled steel plate back drop - they use ground tire bead mound instead and a very powerful ventilation system (It's like shooting in a strong breeze coming from your back). When you shoot lubed lead bullets, the smoke from the firing is immediately pushed down range. The range staff (who also own another range in neighboring state) confirms that shooting lead is permissible. I also shot at other California indoor ranges with steel plated back drops and they do not allow shooting of lead bullets, only jacketed or plated bullets (more on plated bullets later).
I work as a state health facilities inspector/surveyor and is the office respirator fit tester and it is my opinion that minimizing lead splatter and not inhaling lead vapor is the key. As long as the indoor ranges have good ventilation system, I believe harmful levels of exposure to lead vapor may be minimized. As to lead vapor venting to outside atmosphere, I do not believe regulations exist to mandate filtering before venting. If there were any established lead vapor concerns, I am quite certain OSHA/Cal-OSHA signs would be all over the indoor ranges.
I think the concern over lead may be more applicable to outdoor ranges shooting steel plates. I also shoot at several outdoor ranges for recreation/match shooting, and over time, more and more cardboard targets have been used and less and less steel plates for staging of targets. Even with good breeze, often it changes direction and the smoke/dust blows right back in our faces. Examining areas immediately adjacent to steel plates showed definite lead splatter, but surprisingly more from softer copper plated bullets than harder cast bullets (I shoot cast bullets with hardness of 18-24 - I think harder the better). The splattered lead fragments and dust on the ground may over time be picked up as wind blows and be breathed in. With the use of cardboard targets, bullets are mostly embedded in the dirt berms where they are less likely to fragment/dust and provide for safer outdoor shooting.
I do not believe wearing of masks in indoor range is practical. For actual filtering of lead vapor, respirator with filter cartrige rating specific to lead vapor is required and disposable paper masks (even N95) will help but not provide that level of protection.
snuffy
Member
Oh? Lead is a very dense substance. It takes a long time and an awful lot of heat just to melt it. Then it must be heated OVER 1200 degrees to produce fumes/vapor. Now, how does that happen in a couple nanoseconds that the base of a bullet is exposed to the powder gases?
The only way to know if there's metallic lead dust or vapor in the smoke from a lubricated lead bullet is to capture some in a filter, then analyze it. If that has been done and proven, then I'll believe it.
Metallic lead is not easily absorbed by the body. Only a tiny amount of it can be absorbed through the skin,(.06% of lead on human skin Will be absorbed).
Now the lead styphonate from the primers is an entirely different matter. It is a lead salt, easily absorbed by touching mucous membranes of the human body. Shooting in a well ventilated indoor range is a safe thing to do.
I cast boolits in an entirely enclosed bedroom that is also my loading room/man cave. I have yearly blood tests for lead levels. The highest was last year, 7.0. I also shoot at our clubs indoor range.
Lead does accumulate in the human body, but it doesn't stay there. Toxins are eliminated regularly, so unless you are constantly being exposed, you will eventually get rid of it.
jcwit
member
WELL SAID snuffy. Absoluty right.
I also usually cast in an enclosed room during the winter, I do open a window for cooling shortly after starting. I also have my lead levels tested every 6 months now along with other blood work. Have yet to ever have levels above single digits.
This is nothing more than a scare. The American people are being fed a bill of goods. But I won't go any further into this area as it gets into P----------------------.
I also usually cast in an enclosed room during the winter, I do open a window for cooling shortly after starting. I also have my lead levels tested every 6 months now along with other blood work. Have yet to ever have levels above single digits.
This is nothing more than a scare. The American people are being fed a bill of goods. But I won't go any further into this area as it gets into P----------------------.
ranger335v
Member
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Ah, the smell of gunsmoke and bullet lube is as fine as napalm in the morning!
What Snuffy is saying, in effect and accurately, is don't lick your hands clean when loading and shooting and you will be fine, "The sky is falling!" Chicken Littles of the world not withstanding.
What Snuffy is saying, in effect and accurately, is don't lick your hands clean when loading and shooting and you will be fine, "The sky is falling!" Chicken Littles of the world not withstanding.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Be "eventually" if you mean decades, you are correct. For many adults, they are getting doses with lead at the range that will be with them when they die. The half life of lead in the body is about 17-25 years for that which end up in the harder tissues such as bones (including the cartilage of the joints), those most lead ingested does get flushed before it is deposited in the harder tissues.
http://www.toronto.ca/health/hphe/pdf/lead_section1_a.pdf
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/lead/pbbiologic_fate2.html
That is to say that about 20% of what is ingested is there for the long haul. 80% goes away after 1-2 months.
Here is a nice warning read from the U. of Texas on the Risks of Lead Poisoning in Firearms Instructors and their Students.
http://www.utexas.edu/safety/ehs/msds/lead.html
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Why did the question change half way through the thread? The original question was, "Is bullet lube smoke bad for you?" Somehow it got changes around to lead fumes, how?? The question was about BULLET LUBE, not LEAD FUMES, or did I miss something??
jcwit
member
Well it started to change around post #8.
Back to whether lube smoke is bad for you or not, the pollutants one will inhale while driving to and from the range will more than likely do one more harm. Lord help us in the fall with all the leaf burning.
Back to whether lube smoke is bad for you or not, the pollutants one will inhale while driving to and from the range will more than likely do one more harm. Lord help us in the fall with all the leaf burning.
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