Is it just me or are AR-15 rifle becoming ridiculously cheap?

[someguy2800]

I used to go to the local sportman club's public range to help people sight in there deer rifles before deer season and I can tell you there is an alarming percentage of people that struggle to hit 10 inch targets at 100 yards with guns there is nothing wrong with. I had to sight in quite a few peoples rifles for them because they couldn't reliably hit the target enough for me to tell them how to adjust the scope. In most cases they were stunned to see there rifle shoot a 1-1/2 group with the only change being me behind it. I would say that 50% of people are not capable of shooting better than a 4" group at 100 yards either because they are holding it all wrong, they are not using an appropriate rest, the gun is always canted different, they are not looking through the scope straight, and as is most of the time the case they are unconsciously closing there eye and mashing on the trigger like a staple gun in anticipation of recoil. I'm not an AR15 expert but all the ones I ever shot were 1"-2" guns at 100 with a scope on them and bench rested, and not with garbage steel case ammo. None of them were expensive except for one a friend had which was easily a .4 moa gun. All the rest had terrible triggers which is half the problem.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Personally, when I go to the range and see guys shooting an obviously new, just off the rack AR and they are having fun just hitting the berm, that makes me happy there are new shooters in the sport. I'd rather see a range full of those guys boldly missing the 10 ring all day than one grumpy fudd telling everyone else how to have fun.

Well said! Much better than I did!

 

[M1key]

ARs are for shooting at a station wagon full of Jihadis that just pulled up in your driveway.

Bolt guns...not so much.

M

 

[Hanzo581]

It is NOT Mil-Spec. That term is used entirely too loosely. It may have dimensions that are the same as a Mil-Spec rifle and it may have the metallurgy of a Mil-Spec rifle. But it ain't Mil-Spec.

So if it has the Mil-Spec dimensions and same materials as a Mil-Spec rifle has, what part makes it non Mil-Spec? Asking honestly, not claiming you're wrong.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

what part makes it non Mil-Spec?

Usually heat treating, hardening, coating or how it is tested.

 

[Llama Bob]

Having spend a good deal of time now on Appleseed lines teaching mostly newish shooters, I have gained a LOT of respect for the AR15. We get a mix of everything - ARs, AKs, SKSs, Garands, mini-14s, M1As, M1 carbines, bolt rifles of various flavors, and of course every rimfire under the sun. Out of all those guns, there are two that stand out as a) working and b) giving their shooters a good chance of shooting well. It's the 5.56 ARs, and 10/22s with upgraded sights (or an optic).

AR15s may have slightly dubious terminal ballistics and look like they were designed by a pipe fitter, but the darn things work better than the alternatives when it comes to making hits on reasonable size targets under time pressure.

 

[readyeddy]

If I could get for about $500 a rifle that is lightweight, ergonomic, easy to shoot, accurate, reliable, durable, chrome lined or nitrided bore so you get minimal copper buildup, shoots a cartridge that has both long range and minimal recoil, doesn't need to be cleaned just squirt oil on the bolt carrier, uses cheap detachable magazines, uses standardized parts I can buy from multiple vendors, easily taken apart or built, modifiable and optics ready, then I would buy one.

 

[12Pump]

BTW, same ad has Ruger AR556 is Wolf Grey for $499, that would be worth looking into if I needed an AR-15.

I hear all the time about prices like this, but never locally. Scheels recently had the Ruger AR556 on sale for $599 and normally sells it for $699. Same goes for the S&W Sport 2. That's $100 and $200 more! I wish they'd get their prices down to what other places are selling them for.

 

[Llama Bob]

I hear all the time about prices like this, but never locally. Scheels recently had the Ruger AR556 on sale for $599 and normally sells it for $699. Same goes for the S&W Sport 2. That's $100 and $200 more! I wish they'd get their prices down to what other places are selling them for.

Are there no FFLs who will do a transfer near you? I'm all for supporting local stores, but a $200 upcharge on a $500 gun is past the limit.

 

[someguy2800]

Yeah I am all for local business but all the gun stores in my area are just ridiculous on prices for the stuff I want. I average a $100-$200 savings on buying guns online even after paying shipping and FFL transfer.

 

[Newtosavage]

There always has to be one of those guys...

<grumpy old man voice> Yer dang new fangeled whatchamagiggy aren't near as good as my good 'ol fashioned onion belt sonny! </grumpy old man voice>

Yes yes, we know, ARs are all 4 MOA guns and bolt guns are all 1MOA... heck, those are the cheap beater bolt guns. True bolt guns are all Sub MOA.

Hang on, I think I sprained my eyes rolling them so hard.

Unless your local range happens to be Camp Perry, accuracy is mostly a function of the shooter, not the gun. The guys tickled to get 4 inch groups might be tickled to get 4 inch groups because they aren't expert shooters and that's good for them. Personally, when I go to the range and see guys shooting an obviously new, just off the rack AR and they are having fun just hitting the berm, that makes me happy there are new shooters in the sport. I'd rather see a range full of those guys boldly missing the 10 ring all day than one grumpy fudd telling everyone else how to have fun.

Not sure what makes you think I'm grumpy other than it serves to bolster your argument, I guess. Uncle Sam paid good money to train me on a AR and I was issued one for duty carry. Yes, they are a tool for a particular job. However, I was never all that impressed with the tool. That's all. Don't be so thin skinned that my opinion of a tool upsets you.

 

[Swampman]

So if it has the Mil-Spec dimensions and same materials as a Mil-Spec rifle has, what part makes it non Mil-Spec? Asking honestly, not claiming you're wrong.

The lack of a happy switch?

 

[mokin]

I see the price (and demand) dropping fast. At least for the entry level rifles. The thing is, AR-15s are very modular and if the shooter likes it they can change things like the trigger, sights, and free float the barrel. Then, if the new shooter really likes it, they can get serious.

 

[kimberkid]

The bottom of the barrel AR's have always been cheap ... but yes, right now they are as cheap as I've seen them in 20 years.

 

[CapnMac]

The Colt oem can be found a little cheaper from what I have seen.

Dunno, the COLT LE6920s all seem to be about $200 cheaper than just a year ago.

In some ways, this is a near-ideal time to be shopping for mid-size and carbines.

If a less-good time to research them, since the opinions on these things is all over the place. People who have firmly cleaved to an idea that a "good' AR means spending $1500-2000, will be convinced that anything cheaper is junk. But can not offer any evidence to that end. Browsing gunbroker and the like will show plenty of examples of people who bought at $1400 and now want $1500-1600. Many of those will be sadly disappointed.

 

[Jackal]

Buy now, in 4 years things are gonna be in full panic mode again.

 

[Corn-Picker]

Are there no FFLs who will do a transfer near you? I'm all for supporting local stores, but a $200 upcharge on a $500 gun is past the limit.

Yeah I am all for local business but all the gun stores in my area are just ridiculous on prices for the stuff I want. I average a $100-$200 savings on buying guns online even after paying shipping and FFL transfer.

In fairness, the LGS may not be at fault for the high prices. The online stores are likely to have more negotiating power due to their volume. Your LGS may pay more for that AR than buds or kygunco sells it for. I feel for any brick and mortar retailer, they just can not compete with the online sellers.

 

[someguy2800]

In fairness, the LGS may not be at fault for the high prices. The online stores are likely to have more negotiating power due to their volume. Your LGS may pay more for that AR than buds or kygunco sells it for. I feel for any brick and mortar retailer, they just can not compete with the online sellers.

Well of the four stores with guns in my town are all chain retailers so I don't feel bad denying them my extra money and the forth is a one man gun shop who does my FFL transfers. I try to buy what I can to support him but he only carries a few pistols and some used long guns. I did just buy an excellent 1964 colt targetsman from him that he got in. Even when I go to gun shows around here, used guns are all listed for what they were new and new guns are 30% more than I can buy them on gunbroker.

 

[someguy2800]

I've never brought a gun back to a gunshop before due to a problem. If something isn't quite right I just fix it myself, and only in one case did I ever send a gun back, which I handled directly with the manufacturer.

 

[benEzra]

What's the verdict on nitrided barrels anyway? I know the guys at DDI claim it's superior to chrome lining (stated in an interview with Tim from MAC), and I know others have done comparisons between Nitride and chrome lining (MrGunsNGear, and probably others), but I haven't gotten around to watching those lol.

I'm looking for a nitrided (or even stainless) barrel and Wyld chamber for my next upper, for the theoretical accuracy benefit.

Generally speaking, nitrided barrels can be held to more consistent dimensions than chrome lined barrels, because nitriding is just a surface treatment, whereas chrome lining requires a barrel to be bored slightly oversize and then plated to the correct dimensions.

I'm about tired of shaking my head at all the guys I see (and it's a lot these days) at our local range who run out and buy a "cheap" (to them Iguess) AR and are tickled at their 4" groups at 100 yards. Guess I don't see the point, but my priority for a rifle has always been accuracy. I have shotguns for less precise work.

An AR optimized up as a home-defense carbine, with a NATO chamber, unmagnified red dot sight, and a light, isn't going to be as accurate as an AR set up as a long-range varmint gun or target rifle with a high-powered scope and a match-grade free-floated barrel. Different setups for different roles. The former is an alternative to the traditional defensive shotgun, while still offering some longer-range capability, and the latter is an alternative to a precision bolt gun.

Those 4" shooters at the range may be seeing what their bedside carbine can do at 100 yards, rather than trying to get the nth degree of accuracy out of a varmint or target gun. The neat thing about the AR is that it can do both; you can easily swap between HD and varmint/target configurations without needing a gunsmith. Or you could set up a precision all-around carbine that handles both roles pretty well.