Is it just me or are AR-15 rifle becoming ridiculously cheap?

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grampajack said:
Unfortunately I have to agree. The gun industry as a whole is probably going to be hurting bad by this time next near. I foresee firesale prices across the board, from manufacturer to retailer to used.



As opposed to what? They're intricately machined from forged aerospace aluminum. When they were first introduced they were space age as heck. Most of the world's military arms are more costly and employ lower tech manufacturing methods from less advanced materials.
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OK I get the idea. But they are just as mass produced as a fender for a Ford F250. If there not cheap something's wrong.
 
Excess inventory. Everyone and their mother started making ARs over the past 8 years, and went nuts producing them, especially last year. Now, with the unexpected result of the election, they have to move all that inventory.

I'm hoping for innovation to kick in again. It used to be that you could tool up and produce ARs, and someone would buy them. Now companies will have to compete with different offerings.
 
There are some real bargains right now on AR's and many other guns as well.
All the low priced AR's I have looked at need a better trigger so add $100-$125.
 
R.W.Dale said:
I can't envision a potential problem with an AR that would justify the effort of boxing it up and shipping it to the manufacturer over vs just fixing yourself.

You'd have to be super jaded to get mad because you can't warranty your $400 AR being discussed here a few years down the road.


As to cheap plastic, for the lower it works just as well as aluminum in fact if cheap and or light is the goal I prefer plastic over poorly done AI
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You probably know more about that than I do. I don't own one.:(
 
If you don't already have an AR or two, now is a great time to buy one. If you are a young shooter just getting into guns, this is a great opportunity. I remember right after the federal awb ended. AK clones for $350, sks for $75, and I didn't see any ARs for less than $700 or $800. Of course nearly all were A2 variety with a fixed carry handle.

More surprising than AR prices, are how AK clones and ruger mini-14s cost more, sometimes by several hundred dollars. It'd be hard to justify buying one of those rifles anymore, unless you just like the looks or caliber better. They can't compete with the accuracy of even a cheap AR. Mid and cheaper priced ARs are the best buys right now especially if you don't already have one. If some components that are cheaper bother you on these rifles, they are not hard to switch out if you want to upgrade later. I cannot think of any easier rifle to modify or work on.
 
This is the confluence of several factors.
  • They were never genuinely expensive to make, but recent events have created a vast and efficient capacity for making them.
    • Massive influx of consumer cash into the space incentivized investment in new, very efficient manufacturing equipment.
    • Massive influx of consumer cash into the space allowed the high-volume producers to very quickly recoup the costs of that new efficient manufacturing equipment.
    • Massive influx of consumer cash into the space brought many additional manufacturers (some entirely new, some shifting from other gun products) into the space.
    • End result: Lots of makers can make them very cheaply.
  • The end of the massive influx of consumer cash and reduction of consumer demand works it from the other end.
    • Less money is currently chasing AR's (everyone who wants one has ten, and there is no longer a perceived imminent threat of the supply being shut down forever).
  • The third element is that large inventories were already stacked up in the supply chain and are now losing money by the day.
If people don't buy at current prices, they'll likely get even cheaper until the inventory is burned up. The less efficient manufacturers and/or those who do not offer a "special" AR that is uniquely desirable/non-fungible will likely go under or leave the space. Prices will eventually begin another rise, but most of the drop is secular and due to investment in efficient manufacturing. The only reason that service-grade AR's will ever need to be $1k again is a bubble (i.e., a ban-fear panic).
 
barnbwt said:
They've been this cheap all along...
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Except for when the weren't. I remember when ARs were 1,200-1,300 and AKs were 350-450. Back then people would say, "why buy an AR when you can get three AKs". The AR was the snob gun at the range back then, among a crowed of SKSs and WASRs. Kind of like a SCAR now. Of course, back then your AR choices were pretty much Colt or DPMS. Now with everyone and their dog making ARs, the prices have come way way down.
 
Compared to an ak, an ar15 variant is simple to build. The hand fitting to get an ak running from parts compared to an ar is just crazy. Those that know what is going on can build an ar in 30 min, an ak is going to take about 3-4 hours. How much do you get paid at work? Add three hours of that to any ak variant and you can see why ar's are cheaper... Multiply that by 2x or 3x for the mini 14. Complex machining and hand fitting really increase costs, and labor isn't cheap.
 
adcoch1 said:
Compared to an ak, an ar15 variant is simple to build. The hand fitting to get an ak running from parts compared to an ar is just crazy. Those that know what is going on can build an ar in 30 min, an ak is going to take about 3-4 hours. How much do you get paid at work? Add three hours of that to any ak variant and you can see why ar's are cheaper... Multiply that by 2x or 3x for the mini 14. Complex machining and hand fitting really increase costs, and labor isn't cheap.
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I'm willing to bet Izhevsk didn't spend 3 hours of labor to put together an AK47 nor anybody else that was producing them in mass. You're probably right when putting one together from parts and pieces of different origin.

My father in law bought a bushmaster carbon 15 a couple years ago with a red dot scope complete for $400. He's never been interested in tactical stuff but decided he wanted one just to give the middle finger to the people who want to ban such things. Despite having the worst trigger of any firearm I have ever held it is actually a good shooter. His brother in law was at his place bragging up his $1500 custom built AR and couldn't hit our 8" plate with it at 200 yards (no fault of the gun I'm sure). We went and got the little tupperware terror out and me, my father in law, and my brother in law each put 5 rounds in a row on it standing offhand. It was pretty funny.
 
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The low end ARs are becoming cheap, but I haven't seen much evidence of price drops on the nice ARs.
ScrapMetalSlug said:
If you don't already have an AR or two, now is a great time to buy one. If you are a young shooter just getting into guns, this is a great opportunity. I remember right after the federal awb ended. AK clones for $350, sks for $75, and I didn't see any ARs for less than $700 or $800. Of course nearly all were A2 variety with a fixed carry handle.

More surprising than AR prices, are how AK clones and ruger mini-14s cost more, sometimes by several hundred dollars. It'd be hard to justify buying one of those rifles anymore, unless you just like the looks or caliber better. They can't compete with the accuracy of even a cheap AR. Mid and cheaper priced ARs are the best buys right now especially if you don't already have one. If some components that are cheaper bother you on these rifles, they are not hard to switch out if you want to upgrade later. I cannot think of any easier rifle to modify or work on.
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This is what's really amazing - the development of the AR market has been so dramatic that almost other patterns of military rifles are now horrible deals - less performant for more money.
 
Llama Bob said:
This is what's really amazing - the development of the AR market has been so dramatic that almost other patterns of military rifles are now horrible deals - less performant for more money.
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That's particularly true when one throws in the "network effects" of one basic type being common across most users... you get huge variety and innovation in the specialization and upgrade/modification markets. Whatever complaint you have with a vanilla AR can be "remedied" with a variant that exists or can be created from retail goods. You don't like DI? Fine, then get a piston AR from LWRC, or POF, or Adams Arms, or a Ruger, or an H&K, or.... You don't like the trigger geometry? Fine, get a drop-in trigger from Timney, or TriggerTech, or Black Rain or..... Want a different stock? Heck, Magpul alone makes about a dozen different ones. Don't like a 16" barrel? You can get them off-the-shelf in everything from 9" to 24" without spending more than 30 seconds googling. Don't 5.56/.223? Get one in .300 blackout or 7.63x39. Don't like intermediate-power rifle cartridges? Fine, get an AR10 in .308. Still not enough? Fine, get an AR30 in .338 Lapua. Want to go the other direction? Blowback-operated 9mm AR's are all the rage at the moment, and there are some .22lr's that look like AR's and have some parts compatibility.

If some of the other basically-sound service rifle designs had that kind of innovation and flexibility behind them, I'm sure they could offer the same kind of easy performance as AR's. But they don't.
 
Thats just it, when I was young I was interested in an AR but bushmaster was the only thing you saw locally and even then they were pretty rare. I went through the catalog with the local dealer and they were all $900-$1200. All the people I knew considered them to be a cheap inaccurate plastic junk compared to the bolt guns we were used to and we didn't understand why anyone would spend that kind of money on one when AK's and SKS's were $200. Now 20 years later they are less than half that cost, and honestly it is a bargain when you compare it to any other semi auto rifle you can buy.
 
rock river makes a great 2 stage drop in trigger for around $85 if you just can't stand the heavy and gritty standard ones.
 
Mosin Bubba said:
That one's actually got a nitrided barrel
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What's the verdict on nitrided barrels anyway? I know the guys at DDI claim it's superior to chrome lining (stated in an interview with Tim from MAC), and I know others have done comparisons between Nitride and chrome lining (MrGunsNGear, and probably others), but I haven't gotten around to watching those lol.
 
ClickClickD'oh said:
Except for when the weren't. I remember when ARs were 1,200-1,300 and AKs were 350-450. Back then people would say, "why buy an AR when you can get three AKs". The AR was the snob gun at the range back then, among a crowed of SKSs and WASRs. Kind of like a SCAR now. Of course, back then your AR choices were pretty much Colt or DPMS. Now with everyone and their dog making ARs, the prices have come way way down.
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I'm talking about production prices & Colt's margins of 500% in those days...
 
hdwhit said:
According to the Del-Ton website for the DT Sport Mod 2 (https://www.del-ton.com/DT_Sport_Mod_2_p/dtsport-m2.htm)

Upper Receiver:
  • Forged 7075 T6 Aluminum
  • A3 Flat Top w/ White T-Marks
  • Hard Coat Anodized
  • Bore’s Surface is coated with dry film lube, over anodized surface
  • Mil-Spec
  • Ejection Port Cover and Round Forward Assist
  • Right Hand Ejection
Lower Receiver:
  • Forged 7075 T6 Aluminum
  • Hard Coat Anodized
  • Mil-Spec
  • Enhanced Triggerguard
  • Mag Catch Button
  • Semi-Auto
  • A2 Grip

Not a cast/plastic gun.
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It is NOT Mil-Spec. That term is used entirely too loosely. It may have dimensions that are the same as a Mil-Spec rifle and it may have the metallurgy of a Mil-Spec rifle. But it ain't Mil-Spec.
 
That $399 Del-Ton is a steal for what it is though. I dfon't need another AR, but I will probably get one anyway.
 
AFAIK, paying $500+ for a rifle that won't group half as well as my bolt actions isn't what I'd call a bargain. And before I get flamed, I know full well that many of you have great shooting AR's and love them. But I'm about tired of shaking my head at all the guys I see (and it's a lot these days) at our local range who run out and buy a "cheap" (to them I guess) AR and are tickled at their 4" groups at 100 yards. Guess I don't see the point, but my priority for a rifle has always been accuracy. I have shotguns for less precise work.
 
Newtosavage said:
AFAIK, paying $500+ for a rifle that won't group half as well as my bolt actions isn't what I'd call a bargain. And before I get flamed, I know full well that many of you have great shooting AR's and love them. But I'm about tired of shaking my head at all the guys I see (and it's a lot these days) at our local range who run out and buy a "cheap" (to them I guess) AR and are tickled at their 4" groups at 100 yards. Guess I don't see the point, but my priority for a rifle has always been accuracy. I have shotguns for less precise work.
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Not everyone is shooting to get tight groups.
Some people just want a reliable rifle.
Others want something that's fun to shoot.
Still others want something to learn the basics on.
And others want a good foundation to start with and to upgrade as their budget allows.
Some don't want a shotgun.

I'm sure I could go on and on and on.

I'd also bet that that many of those 4" groups are by people that don't have much training and who simply went out and bought a cheap AR.

In my own case, I don't care who you are, what you do, and what you have. All I care is that you're safe, and that you don't harm others. As long as you don't bother anyone else, then I say enjoy your 4" groups, or your bolt or whatever.

That said, the gun I'm building now, will have a muzzle brake and I expect it to be louder than my current one. While I don't plan on bothering some, I'm sure it'll piss some folks off. I'll try to get to the range when it's not too busy, and I always try to be as far from folks as I can. So, I guess that's an exception as those I piss off will have to deal with it if they're there when I"m shooting it.
 
Newtosavage said:
AFAIK, paying $500+ for a rifle that won't group half as well as my bolt actions isn't what I'd call a bargain.
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There always has to be one of those guys...

<grumpy old man voice> Yer dang new fangeled whatchamagiggy aren't near as good as my good 'ol fashioned onion belt sonny! </grumpy old man voice>

Yes yes, we know, ARs are all 4 MOA guns and bolt guns are all 1MOA... heck, those are the cheap beater bolt guns. True bolt guns are all Sub MOA.

Hang on, I think I sprained my eyes rolling them so hard.

Unless your local range happens to be Camp Perry, accuracy is mostly a function of the shooter, not the gun. The guys tickled to get 4 inch groups might be tickled to get 4 inch groups because they aren't expert shooters and that's good for them. Personally, when I go to the range and see guys shooting an obviously new, just off the rack AR and they are having fun just hitting the berm, that makes me happy there are new shooters in the sport. I'd rather see a range full of those guys boldly missing the 10 ring all day than one grumpy fudd telling everyone else how to have fun.
 
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