Is McCain in 08 really that bad?

[Glockfan.45]

OK so most of us know that McCain announced his desire to run for President in 08. The polls so far favor him to beat out Comrade Clinton by a slight margin should that be the race (I suspect it will be). I decided to research McCains stance on gun control today and here is what I found.

P.S all info is from on the issues.

Ban cheap guns; require safety locks; for gun show checks
McCain favors outlawing cheaply made handguns called Saturday night specials, and favors mandating safety locks on certain guns. He said he is intrigued by new technology that electronically identifies a person handling a gun, allowing only the owner to fire it. McCain rallied Senate Republicans behind a Democratic measure requiring background checks at gun shows.
Source: Scott Lindlaw, Associated Press Aug 17, 1999

Supports ban on certain assault weapons
McCain said he was open to voting for an assault weapon ban, depending on the details.
Source: Los Angeles Times, “McCain Calls for Hearings” Aug 17, 1999

Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban
McCain spoke generally of the need for some tighter gun controls on hardened criminals and children. In Congress, he pressured his colleagues to require background checks for buyers at guns shows, and he supported a requirement that trigger locks be sold with handguns. But the Senator opposed the two major gun-control measures of recent years, the 1994 ban on several types of assault weapons and the Brady Bill, which required a 5-day waiting period for handgun purchases.
Source: Todd S. Purdum, New York Times, p. A14 Aug 17, 1999

Guns are a problem, but so are violent web sites & videos
If you want to take every gun in and dump it in the ocean, I’ll still take you to a Web site where it teaches children how to build a pipe bomb. And I’ll take you to a Web site where the worst kind of hate language that is terribly offensive to all of us exists. I can take you to a video game being sold to our children where the object of the game is to kill police. I understand the importance of weapons, but to define that as being the major cause [of youth violence], there’s a whole lot of causes.
Source: Todd S. Purdum, New York Times, p. A14 Aug 17, 1999

Punish criminals who abuse 2nd Amendment rights
We need to focus on halting the spread of violent crime and punishing violent criminals who abuse their Second Amendment rights, while preserving those same rights for law-abiding Americans.
Source: www.mccain2000.com/ “Press Releases” May 10, 1999

Youth Violence Prevention Act restricts guns for kids
McCain has introduced the “Youth Violence Prevention Act.”
The legislation would:
prevent juveniles from illegal access to weapons and punish those who would assist them in doing so
prohibit juveniles who commit acts of gun violence from purchasing guns in the future
sentence juveniles convicted of violent crimes under adult guidelines
and punish juveniles who illegally carry or use handguns in schools.
Source: www.mccain2000.com/ “Press Releases” May 10, 1999

Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use
McCain supports the following principles regarding gun issues:
Repeal federal restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens.
Favor allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms.
McCain says, “There are penalties for criminals who use firearms.”
Source: Project Vote Smart, 1998, www.vote-smart.org Jul 2, 1998

Voted YES on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:
Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005

Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence.
Vote to pass a bill that would block certain civil lawsuits against manufacturers, distributors, dealers and importers of firearms and ammunition, mainly those lawsuits aimed at making them liable for gun violence. In this bill, trade groups would also be protected The bill would call for the dismissal of pending lawsuits against the gun industry. The exception would be lawsuits regarding a defect in a weapon or ammunition. It also would provide a 10-year reauthorization of the assault weapons ban which is set to expire in September 2004. The bill would increase the penalties for gun-related violent or drug trafficking crimes which have not resulted in death, to a minimum of 15 years imprisonment. The bill calls for criminal background checks on all firearm transactions at gun shows where at least 75 guns are sold. Exemptions would be made available for dealers selling guns from their homes as well as members-only gun swaps and meets carried out by nonprofit hunting clubs.
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S.1805/H.R.1036 ; vote number 2004-30 on Mar 2, 2004

Voted NO on background checks at gun shows.
Require background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows.
Status: Amdt Agreed to Y)50; N)50; VP decided YES
Reference: Lautenberg Amdt #362; Bill S. 254 ; vote number 1999-134 on May 20, 1999

Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations.
The Hatch amdt would increase mandatory penalties for the illegal transfer or use of firearms, fund additional drug case prosecutors, and require background check on purchasers at gun shows. [A YES vote supports stricter penalties].
Status: Amdt Agreed to Y)48; N)47; NV)5
Reference: Hatch Amendment #344; Bill S. 254 ; vote number 1999-118 on May 14, 1999

Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows.
Vote to table or kill a motion to require that all gun sales at gun shows be completed by federally licensed gun dealers. Also requires background checks to be completed on buyers and requires gun show promoters to register with the Treasury.
Reference: Bill S.254 ; vote number 1999-111 on May 11, 1999

Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks.
Vote to table [kill] an amendment to make it unlawful for gun dealers to sell handguns without providing trigger locks. Violation of the law would result in civil penalties, such as suspension or revocation of the dealer's license, or a fine.

While he claimed he may support an AWB he voted against it. I dont agree with him 100% but honestly the guy doesnt sound as bad as most here make him out to be. For me if the race is McCain vs Clinton I shall vote McCain. If Giuliani gets the Republican bid I will vote third party or write in as all is lost either way.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I hope you are kidding. Who's going to decide what a "cheaply made" handgun is? Congressman Charlie Wrangle? As it is now, "cheap" means dangerous to the responsible user, i.e., it blows up due to defect in design or manufacture. The penalty? The manufacturer can be sued for damages. His way leads to government needing to put its stamp of approval for every gun manufactured.

And then there's the McCain Fiengold repeal of First Amendment Free Speech. Funny, I thought a repeal of a Constitutional Amendment required more than the passage of a Federal law.

 

[bouis]

Exactly -- a "cheap" handgun is one that those scary rednecks and black people can afford.

'Course the ones selling crack and meth don't have any problem getting more expensive guns... but remember, gun control ain't about guns--it's about control.

 

[Glockfan.45]

Well I think you fear monger a bit. We all know cheap pistol means Jennings and the like. Like I said I do not agree with him 100%. However I see him as our best hope, look at the alternatives.

 

[Franco2shoot]

WeatherVane McCain

I'll just put it bluntly... I wouldn't pea down his throat if his guts were on fire!

If the R party wants my vote, they'll have to earn it. No more mediocrity. They will need to find someone with Soul, Heart, Character and a true Conservative across the spectrum, be it fiscal, or social issues. That kinda leaves out Rudy, and the has been McCain. I thought Allen from Virginia had a shot, but he showed just how limp-wristed party hopefuls have become by not taking the fight to Webb. In all honesty, I have no idea of a candidate that is truly from the "Walk softly and carry a big stick, and Oh by the way here's a thunk on your head to let ya know I intend to use it." school of thought.
More Patton, less Paton leather*.
KKKKFL


*Credit Michael Savage..who I agree with about 50% of the time.

 

[Biker]

Vote for McCain? I'd rather stand barefoot in a driveway full of broken glass while watching a video of Rosie ODonnel running down Bay Watch beach wearing only a string bikini.
The man would finish destroying this country.
I'll take a pass.

Biker

 

[mainmech48]

Let's devoutly hope that it doesn't come to any such dilemma. Some "choice": Hillary or a RINO with no real principles whatsoever. Kinda like being asked to decide which side you'd like your hernia to be on.

 

[Glockfan.45]

Yes your right. Lest send another message to Washington. I will vote Hillary or Obama (who thinks all semi autos should be banned) to teach the GOP a lesson that they should run a canidate who will repeal the NFA act . The guy voted against the Brady Bill & assault weapon ban , voted to protect gun makers from lawsuits, voted no on background checks at gun shows, voted yes on loosening license & background checks at gun shows, and favors allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms. But he wont let me buy a $75.00 pistol that will melt if I leave it on top of the stove while I cook a pizza :banghead: .

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Kinda like being asked to decide which side you'd like your hernia to be on.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

 

[Cacique500]

Lets just hope doesn't come down to him vs. Hillary - he is that bad. Anybody remember a little piece of legislation called McCain-Feingold?

Biker, the visual of Rosie in the bikini should be censored - way to early for that visual and I doubt if I'll be able to eat breakfast now!

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

But he wont let me buy a $75.00 pistol that will melt if I leave it on top of the stove while I cook a pizza.

That's what you call, in the politics biz, a FOOT IN THE DOOR. When the income tax was introduced, it was only for the super wealthy - the Trumps, Gateses and Perots of that time - and then only a minuscule percentage of their income. No one could think of a good reason for opposing that either.

 

[ScottsGT]

Gun Show Loophole. Read: No more private sales. Every gun sold will have to go thru an FFL, thus registration.

I'm with Biker on this one. Except for the bikini thing

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Back in 2000, when Bush and McCain were running in the primaries, the people on gun forums talked about how bad McCain would be for the second amendment. Now suddenly he is starting to get support from some of the same people, despite the fact that his opinions haven't changed. McCain not only wants to limit the 2nd Amendment by closing the "gun show loophole", banning cheap guns, etc, but remember he also gave us Campaign Finance Reform. He has no respect for the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

I have no doubt that he will be the Republican nominee. I think a deal was struck within the Republican Party a few years ago to allow this. Remember how McCain was so vocal against Bush in the first couple years of his presidency? Then suddenly, McCain-Feingold was passed, and Bush signed it despite saying he thought it was unconstitutional, and McCain has since been much more supportive of Bush. I think they struck a deal in which McCain got Campaign Finance Reform in return for shutting up about Bush, and Bush and the party machinery agreed to support him for the nomination in 2008.

I realize that the party leaders don't control the primary results, but with their support and guidance, most voters will end up picking the candidate that Bush and the party leaders support. The message will be put out that McCain is the only candidate who can win in a general election.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I have no doubt that he will be the Republican nominee, with Giuliani or Lindsey Graham as his VP. I will not vote for them, even if Hillary is the Democratic alternative.

Absolutely not!

 

[Manedwolf]

I don't trust him AT ALL. He blows like a leaf in political winds, and is constantly for things he was against being for after he was for being against them.

I also think there's some, shall we say, unresolved mental issues.

 

[emitt1]

What, pray tell, does he mean by "certain assualt weapons?" Face it, he is the enemy.

 

[Deanimator]

Well I think you fear monger a bit. We all know cheap pistol means Jennings and the like. Like I said I do not agree with him 100%. However I see him as our best hope, look at the alternatives.

DO we? Who's "WE"?

What's the actual FUNCTIONAL difference between a Beretta M1934 and a Jennings? Take all the space you need.

People say exactly the same thing you say, about registration.

Tell me, what would I need to do in order to LAWFULLY move to Chicago with my handguns?

 

[DesertShooter]

In my opinion, 2009 thru 2013 are going to be the "lost years". I don't like ANY of the front runners on either side of aisle, and the timing is STILL wrong for a viable 3rd party candidate.

From the little that I've seen of Jeb Bush, he has been fairly decent. Most Floridians like him, and he seems to be pro-gun. 2008, however, is the wrong time for him to run. Maybe 2012?

 

[Lonestar]

Most pocket guns are pretty cheap. You can kiss away Kel-tecs and NAA Mini revolvers.

What worries me is who is going to be McCain's running mate?? Rudy G is a perfect match, and now we are talking about two strong anti gun canidates. Still I rather have an anti-gun republican vs an anti gun Democrat. The republican will chip away, the Dems will take away.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Still I rather have an anti-gun republican vs an anti gun Democrat. The republican will chip away, the Dems will take away.

Wrong! Give me an anti gun Dem pres over an anti gun Rep pres any day. How much do you think the Republicans in Congress will resist a Republican president who's anti gun? How much will they resist a Dem pres who's anti gun? Traditionally, when there's a very leftist Dem in the Whitehouse, the Congress moves to the right in an effort by the American people to thwart radical presidential initiatives. I'd rather see a strong conservative Congress and a leftist Democrat president than a wavering Republican Congress and a leftist Republican president. Any day of the week.

 

[Glockfan.45]

Wrong! Give me an anti gun Dem pres over an anti gun Rep pres any day. How much do you think the Republicans in Congress will resist a Republican president who's anti gun? How much will they resist a Dem pres who's anti gun? Traditionally, when there's a very leftist Dem in the Whitehouse, the Congress moves to the right in an effort by the American people to thwart radical presidential initiatives. I'd rather see a strong conservative Congress and a leftist Democrat president than a wavering Republican Congress and a leftist Republican president. Any day of the week.

Yes and with our Democratic congress who would dare stand against Frau Clinton, or Dear Leader Obama when she/he says lets ban handguns, semiauto rifles, detachable magazines, and so on ? Do you think the blue congress will? I doubt they would I bet it would pass like prunes through an infant. Oh and to address the cheap gun issue. They are determined to be saturday night specials based on the temprature they melt at. I wont miss pot metal guns so its a non-issue to me. Want to protect yourself on a budget buy a Hi-Point.

 

[DirksterG30]

Vote for McCain? I'd rather stand barefoot in a driveway full of broken glass while watching a video of Rosie ODonnel running down Bay Watch beach wearing only a string bikini.
The man would finish destroying this country.
I'll take a pass.

Thanks, Biker. That's an image that will haunt my memory for years to come!

Vote for McCain? Not even if he were the only candidate running! Like Giuliani, he's not pro-gun (or pro-freedom for that matter). His voting record seems to resemble a weathervane. Whichever way the political winds are blowing, that's how he'll vote.

 

[Old Fuff]

Most conservatives in Arizona detest the man. He is a pure RINO and liberal to the core. He wants to be president, and would do or say anything if he thought it would help him win the office. He frequently speaks out of both sides of his mouth. His present plan is to run for president as a middle-of-the-road "reasonable" Republican. Failing that he would run as an Independent and try to capture the "solid middle" from both of the two main parties. Once in office he would quickly change his stance on most issues to the ultra-left wing side.

Never, ever believe what he says. The only reason he voted against some anti-gun legislation was because doing otherwise would have killed him politically in Arizona when he ran for reelection as a Senator.

 

[scurtis_34471]

Personally, I think the definition of anti-gun you guys are using is a bit extreme. A person can be pro-gun and still think that some regulation is appropriate. It is not an all-or-nothing proposition.

I also seriously disagree that McCain-Fiengold violates the First Ammendment, which was not designed to be a mechanism by which special interests and large corporations can essentially buy votes.

 

[Cowboybootnut]

"a video of Rosie ODonnel running down Bay Watch beach wearing only a string bikini."

Can you rent that at Blockbuster??? I ate some bad tofu last night and I need to

Hopefully there will be better candidates popping up in the next year, but that is optimistic.