Is there a commonly used rifle round less powerful than the AR15?

[wacki]

With all the talk on NPR regarding the ar15 being "high powered" I ran some math:

• 5.56 = 1,679 J
• .30-30 Winchester = 2,390 J
• .308 = 3,504 J
• 7.62x39 = 2,073.6 J

Does a commonly used rifle round exist that is less powerful than the 5.56?

EDIT TO ADD:
Are there situations where 5.56 is illegal to hunt with for being under powered?

Does any modern military use a rifle round that is weaker than the 5.56?

 

[Highland Ranger]

22lr

 

[Skribs]

Well, technically pistols used in rifles have lower power. But when the media adds qualifiers to a firearm, it's to make it sound dangerous. We sometimes do it to ourselves.

I was showing an anti coworker the POF rifles. One says "tactical" the other says "hunting/sniper". The ONLY difference between them is that one has a full-length quad rail and the other only has a partial quad rail. She was fine with people being able to buy the tactical, but the other "you mean people can just buy a sniper rifle???"

It's why the last AWB banned things that look scary.

 

[rcmodel]

.221 Remington Fireball
.17 Remington
.204 Ruger
.22 Hornet
.218 Bee

rc

 

[eddism]

5.45mm used by AK-74

 

[zxcvbob]

.30 Carbine.

 

[MathurinKerbouchard]

"High Powered" when used by journalists or politicians to describe a firearm or ammunition is completely arbitrary and therefore undefined.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

5.45mm used by AK-74

I wouldn't say so. 5.45 has more penetration and better wounding.

 

[Zardaia]

The AR-15/M-16 was developed as an intermediate round. Somthing between a SMG firing pistol rounds and a battle rifle using 7.62. Did anyone at all consider it high powered before the first AWB? I grew up with hunting rifles and shotgus and i remember the first time i held an A2 it felt like a toy!

 

[Girodin]

I wouldn't say so. 5.45 has more penetration and better wounding.

Whether that is true is likely going to vary by load and is more a matter of bullet construction than the relative energy of the cartridges.

 

[eldon519]

If you were to just look at the 10 most popular centerfire rifle cartridges, I'd be willing to bet .223 would be the weakest.

Off the top of my head, I would guess the 10 most popular rounds would be something like:
.223
.22-250
.243
7.62x39
.30-30
.308
.270 Win
7mm Rem mag
.30-06
.300 Win mag

I'd guess the next five might look something like .25-06, 7mm Mauser, .338 Win mag, 7mm-08, 8mm Mauser which would still leave .223 at the bottom of the common heap. I'm sure there are different ways to measure popularity such as rounds sold vs guns chambered for it and then commerical vs relic mil-surp and so forth, but I think about this sort of thing every time I hear about a "high-powered" Bushmaster autonomous murder machine.

 

[fatelk]

I think I understand what you mean by "commonly used", as in recognizable to the average hunter? I really would not consider .218 Bee, .17 Rem, or even .22 Hornet to be commonly used in that sense.

Yes, .223/5.56 is rather anemic by deer hunting standards. Most non-gun people have no idea, though, because all they here is "High-powered assault rifle" on the evening news.

I remember seeing a "comic strip" in the paper many years ago around the time of the Clinton AWB. I don't remember the name but the artist was a well-known leftist. It showed a hunter with a deer in his sights, shooting an AR rifle. "Rat-a-tat-tat" (full auto fire). Another hunter stands where the deer was and all he sees is red spatter. The first hunter says "Did I get him?" The other hunter replies "I think I found a piece of antler!"

So yes, they deliberately want ignorant folks to believe that the guns they want to ban are uber-powerful full-automatic death rays. The way to counter this is not to say that the 5.56 round is underpowered and less dangerous, because everyone is painfully aware that an AR can be horribly lethal in the hands of a lunatic.

What I think is helpful to point out is that they are not fully automatic, they are functionally the same as many hunting rifles, and the round they fire IS underpowered by deer hunting standards.

Yes, I know the second amendment is not about hunting, but that's a whole other argument. My point is that if you can show the average Joe who gets everything he knows from soundbites that he is being lied to by the gun ban crowd, maybe he'll be willing to listen a little further instead of just tuning you out as a "gun nut".

 

[wacki]

I think I understand what you mean by "commonly used", as in recognizable to the average hunter?

Ya that will work. Are there situations where 5.56 is illegal to hunt with?

Thanks!

 

[wacki]

Are there any rifle rounds used by any military in the world that are weaker?

Looks like the answer is no.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Does a commonly used rifle round exist that is less powerful than the 5.56?

I don't know about commonly, but there are a number of centerfire rifle cartridges less powerful than the 5.56/.223. They are almost exclusively varmint rounds, such as the .22 Hornet, .17 Rem and .204 Ruger.

5.56 is a pipsqueak in the world of rifle cartridges. It was chosen for a number of reasons, but being highly lethal wasn't one of them. ALL of the military rifle rounds that preceeded it were more devastating.

EDIT TO ADD:
Are there situations where 5.56 is illegal to hunt with for being under powered?

Many states have minimum caliber or minimum energy requirements that preclude the use of .223. My state (CO) is one of them. .24 cal and 1,000 ft/lbs @ 100 yards is the minimum for big game here.

 

[JohnKSa]

With all the talk on NPR regarding the ar15 being "high powered"...

Did anyone at all consider it high powered before the first AWB?...

The NRA considers it a "High Power Rifle" and has for decades.

http://www.6mmbr.com/highpowerbasics.html

High Power Rifle Competition Equipment

Rifle: Rifles to be used in High Power Rifle competition must be equipped with metallic sights (Some long range, 1000-yard matches allow the use of "any sights"), should be capable of holding at least 5 rounds of ammunition and should be adapted to rapid reloading. Tournament programs often group competitions into two divisions, Match Rifle and Service Rifle. Match Rifles can be modified ARs or bolt actions, special limited-run production guns such as the Tubb 2000, or full customs including composite and metal-stocked "Space Guns".

The rifles currently defined as "Service Rifles" include the M1, M14, M16 and their commercial equivalents [such as the AR15 and Springfield M1A. ...

While it's true that it doesn't rank high on the power scale, it's going to be hard to argue against it being a high power rifle given that it's legal in high power rifle competitions.

I don't think I'd try to argue this particular point in defense of the AR.

 

[bikerdoc]

Cannot use less than 24 caliber for hunting in Virginia.

 

[wacki]

I don't think I'd try to argue this particular point in defense of the AR.

I have argued this and it works. People think the AR platform is a "Rhino killer" that's too powerful for hunting. Hence the reference to the comic strip above.

 

[M1key]

How common is 5.7x28mm?


M

 

[JohnKSa]

I have argued this and it works.

Sure, the antis have lots of arguments that work on the uninformed too.

I didn't say it wouldn't work. I said I wouldn't try it.

I'm not willing to risk losing credibility the first time someone does some minimal research and finds out that the NRA officially considers the AR15 to be legal equipment in "high power rifle" matches.

 

[velojym]

It would take some time and effort to research them, but many states consider the .223 too small for medium-large game. I remember Texas being considered notable for allowing it, but it's been a while.
You'll find a more definitive answer in the various state hunting/conservation information websites.

 

[Kiln]

22lr

Lol, this is what I was going to post.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I don't think I'd try to argue this particular point in defense of the AR.

Depends on the nature of the argument.

Yes, it's foolish to argue that it isn't a high powered rifle round; it is a high velocity, bottle neck rifle cartridge.

However, when the uninformed masses are being duped by MSM that the 5.56mm is an uber-deadly cartridge that is too powerful for hunting because it'll splatter the animal all over the countryside, then it's time to reality-check them with some hard data and visual camparisons with standard rifle rounds used for hunting purposes. Most people have no idea where particular rounds fall on the spectrum of power and what makes them suitable or unsuitable for a given purpose, but showing them some energy figures and letting them see with their own eyes how little the 5.56mm is compared to common sporting rounds like the .270 or 7mm mag goes a long way in helping them see how full of bravo sierra the media is.

Here, I snapped a photo of a .223 with some random varmint and big game rounds. Feel free to use it.

 

[R.W.Dale]

If you take that line mach4 you open yourself to the anti counter that if they're not powerful enough for hunting what purpose do they serve.

All in all I think its a reasoning dead end with the average anti




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

 

[JohnKSa]

I understand exactly what you're saying, and the power comparison is certainly accurate and relevant. However, if that tack is taken, I would recommend that at the very least, it should be pointed out that while it's not a particularly powerful cartridge, as rifle cartridges go, it is formally considered to be a high power rifle cartridge. That will help avoid being charged with being intentionally misleading.