Is there any kind of fixed folding stock for the AR platform?
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Birddog1911
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All you have to do is wait for the Para USA TTR to come out, and shell out the ridiculous amount of money they want for it! Now, if it is well below suggested retail, I may have to look closer at one.
benEzra
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Go here:
http://www.bushmaster.com/anatomy_bushmaster.asp
Click "Start", and then click the "Split" button at the bottom of the animation to make it a cutaway or the "Glass" button to make it transparent. Notice that the recoil spring (aka buffer spring) is in the buttstock, and when the rifle fires, the bolt carrier recoils into the stock tube (aka buffer tube). That's why AR folders aren't feasible.
The AK can use a folder because the recoil spring is above the bolt carrier group rather than behind it.
http://www.bushmaster.com/anatomy_bushmaster.asp
Click "Start", and then click the "Split" button at the bottom of the animation to make it a cutaway or the "Glass" button to make it transparent. Notice that the recoil spring (aka buffer spring) is in the buttstock, and when the rifle fires, the bolt carrier recoils into the stock tube (aka buffer tube). That's why AR folders aren't feasible.
The AK can use a folder because the recoil spring is above the bolt carrier group rather than behind it.
Carter
Member
You can get a sig 556 or the new RRA PPS (if its available) you would need a piston gun to have a side folding stock.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
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I'd like to get a folding stock for my AR dedicated to the .22 conversion kit, but it makes no sense to me to shell out for this if I cannot find one LOWER than a standard AR15 stock (with a gooseneck near the juncture to lower it a bit like the Rob XCR) - but I cannot.
DMK
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This is one of the reasons I bought an AK chambered in 5.56x45. 
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
The POF has a gas piston, but I think the bolt carrier still recoils into the buttstock. The only way to make an AR-style folder is to chop off the rear half of the bolt carrier, eliminate the buffer, and move all that mass to the front of the bolt carrier, AND move the recoil spring assembly to the top or sides of the bolt carrier instead of behind it. If you do that, you no longer have an AR, you have a SCAR or something like that---essentially a clean-sheet design.
Again, check out the animation I posted upthread. It shows why the stock can't fold and can't be angled or goosenecked.
Again, check out the animation I posted upthread. It shows why the stock can't fold and can't be angled or goosenecked.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
AHA! Olympic Arms OA-93. It appears that they put a separate tube above the receiver to contain a recoil spring, and used a piston with a completely different bolt carrier. I don't think they make these anymore, but I may be wrong.
http://www.quarterbore.com/ar15m16/oa93.htm
Exploded view of a short-barreled OA-93 upper showing the bolt carrier:
Looks kludgy and impractical to me, though, and I doubt it would be as reliable as an ordinary direct-impingement AR.
If a folder is that important to you, I'd suggest a Bushmaster ACR, SCAR, Armalite AR-180B, Sig 556 (yes?), M1 carbine, Ruger mini-14, or a civilian AK in .223, depending on your budget.
http://www.quarterbore.com/ar15m16/oa93.htm
Exploded view of a short-barreled OA-93 upper showing the bolt carrier:
Looks kludgy and impractical to me, though, and I doubt it would be as reliable as an ordinary direct-impingement AR.
If a folder is that important to you, I'd suggest a Bushmaster ACR, SCAR, Armalite AR-180B, Sig 556 (yes?), M1 carbine, Ruger mini-14, or a civilian AK in .223, depending on your budget.
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Birddog1911
Member
Again, the Para USA TTR...
Well, the pictures didn't work for some reason. However, looking at the RRA PPS carbine, that is the way I would go, and chances are, might in the future!
Well, the pictures didn't work for some reason. However, looking at the RRA PPS carbine, that is the way I would go, and chances are, might in the future!
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Take a longer look at the new POF, it IS a side folder. The piston and spring are over the barrel.
With the AR system, part of the inherent accuracy is the straight line action. No out of axis propulsion of the bolt, straight back action, light and compact. Not a problem for the average shooter, military or civilian. Shortening the barrel and making the stock adjustable doesn't make it a better shooter, just a little more convenient wearing armor and getting out of wheeled vehicles in urban areas. A side folder doesn't offer more than that, either.
Portability vs. tactical accuracy usually means the professionals wind up using a fixed stock - even on machine guns. It's really rare to "need" a folding stock as it has such a limited application.
It helps to market a rifle with it, as POF obviously took time and effort to have one made up special, when a fixed stock on a (useless) buffer tube would have done as much. How exciting would that be demonstrating the lack of a buffer and relocated action spring? Not so much.
With the AR system, part of the inherent accuracy is the straight line action. No out of axis propulsion of the bolt, straight back action, light and compact. Not a problem for the average shooter, military or civilian. Shortening the barrel and making the stock adjustable doesn't make it a better shooter, just a little more convenient wearing armor and getting out of wheeled vehicles in urban areas. A side folder doesn't offer more than that, either.
Portability vs. tactical accuracy usually means the professionals wind up using a fixed stock - even on machine guns. It's really rare to "need" a folding stock as it has such a limited application.
It helps to market a rifle with it, as POF obviously took time and effort to have one made up special, when a fixed stock on a (useless) buffer tube would have done as much. How exciting would that be demonstrating the lack of a buffer and relocated action spring? Not so much.
jmorris
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Quiet
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Para USA & ZM Weapons combined forces.
Para USA TTR
Para USA TTR
Mooseman
Member
you could always make a SBR out of a PLR-16. Not a true ar but reasonably close.
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