Is this how all ear electronic protection works?

[js77]

My wife and I are new gun owners. We just purchased a set of ear protection Axil Trackr Blu. I know now they are just rebranded Alibaba ear muffs like the ones you can get on amazon called Prohear 030. I didn't pay full price (50% off their retail price) but still a little more then basically the same ones from amazon.

I just got them yesterday so I can defiantly still return them.

My problem with them is this. We went to an indoor shooting range yesterday. We both had in ear plugs and these muffs over them. While inside the actual shooting area we couldn't hear each other at all. I'm guessing there must have been some loud ambient noise in there besides the actual shooting or some type of interference. The internal speaker was basically off the entire time we were in the shooting area. Maybe they had a loud filtration system running in there or it was electronic interference from something.

As soon as we walked into the lobby area we could hear each other again though the internal speakers.

These ear muffs are supposed to only block sound above 82 db from playing in the internal speaker but it seems like when they hear anything above 82 they completely just shut off. They are supposed to have compression technology according to their website
"AUTOBLOCKER TECHNOLOGY COMPRESSES ALL SOUNDS OVER 82 DB"
But in reality it just blocks everything when loud noise is detected. I just did a test using a power drill while talking to myself, when the drill is putting out a loud noise the ear protection turns off the internal speaker completely instead of just blocking the loud sound everything is blocked. Which is clipping technology correct not compression?

Is this what all brands do? When there is a loud sudden noise or constant loud background noise the internal speakers just turn off? Instead of just blocking the loud part only allowing voices to still come through?

Also the actual passive noise reduction on the Axil's is considerably less then a set of Walker Dual Colored Passive Muff rated at NRR 26

The reason is Axil rates theirs as SNR 27 and has no NRR rating that I saw but the basically identical Prohear 030 rates theirs as NRR 22dB/SNR 27dB. When I purchased the Axils, one of the main reasons I bought them was the higher DB rating and I didn't realize SNR and NRR are different until after I got them.

 

[MikeInOr]

I have a 30 year old pair of Peltor electronic muffs that take a 9 volt battery. They are by far the best electronic ear muffs I have ever found. I have a couple other sets of electronic ear muffs for friends that want to come shooting with me and they are not even close to the same league as the old Peltors. The old Peltors have big fat ear covers which allows for plenty good enough noise reduction that I never wear ear plugs with them (I also never shoot at indoor ranges so I probably don't get the sound reflections like an indoor range either.). When I am wearing the Peltors at my usual outdoors shooting spot my hearing is considerably better than without them and the stereo microphones give me a good direction of where the sound is coming from. The other electronic muffs aren't nearly as effective, they cut out at a much lower volume giving me much less situational awareness.

 

[hso]

loud ambient noise

If working properly, "sound compression" that Axel claims to use limits the dynamic range produced by the speaker. It is common audio tech used in music production and a crude version of it is treble and base adjustments we use when listening to music turning down or up those ranges in music to suit our tastes. In more complex systems we/or a circuit can adjust the volume of a whole range of frequencies to finer and finer bands. The input has a range beyond what is desired and there is a circuit that limits the range/volume produced by the speaker. It isn't turning on and off like typical electronic shooting hearing protection which only shuts off with the "bang", not ambient noise. If you're on a busy range or where the air handling is noisy that's all part of the sound being detected and "compressed" to keep the total volume within the range that's supposed to be non-hazardous coming through the speakers (in this case).

All electronic muffs are like your standard passive muffs protecting your hearing with speakers and microphones built in with a circuit. Standard electronic hearing pro circuits detects the rapid rise of the bang and shut off the mic until the bang drops. The better the circuit is at detecting and responding to the spike the more we like the product because it spends only the brief period the spike is at or above a hazardous level and isn't shutting off when it isn't important. Busy indoor ranges can have a lot of bangs going on and some muffs will shut off with a lower threshold just for a margin of safety if they're not as confident in the response time of the product. Noise canceling muffs produce a counter wave to cancel a steady roar. Good video on it here -


Compression requires fine adjustment to limit the dynamic range for specific applications. I don't know what Axil does, but you may have a quality problem in your products. I got their plugs and the first set were terrible and the replacements weren't much better so I don't recommend them to anyone. I know nothing of their muffs so I won't comment.

If your muffs aren't performing this way I'd return them and get a reliable product.

I only use and recommend Sordin, Peltor, or Howard Leight electronic hearing pro and I won't buy any from Amazon without carefully vetting the seller since you can end up with counterfeits if you're not careful. I did it intentionally a couple of years ago on a set of HLs and was able to notify them of the counterfeits being pumped through Amazon.

 

[jmorris]

That’s a great question and I know exactly what you are talking about but don’t have an answer for you.

I too have/had some really cheap ones and IIRC my old Pro Ear ones have the pronounced “mute” when they noise above their limit.

For the last few years, I have walked around killing pigs with Walkers and have noticed I hear the down range echo what seems like instantly. I will have to check them around ambient noise to see if they don’t completely shut off sound but just truncate over some limit. It’s either that or they just don’t “mute” as long.

 

[Telekinesis]

Most low to mid tier electronic ear pro is going to behave like that. They may say that they use compression, but in my experience they’re almost all just going to turn off momentarily when they hear a sound above a certain threshold.

Different designs may cut the sound for different durations, and it’s entirely possible that reflected sounds (the echos if you will) in an indoor range are also above the cut threshold. That combined with a busy indoor range could mean that your ear pro behaved as if it was completely turned off.

There are some types of ear pro that actually do use compression technology and don’t just completely turn off when they detect a loud sound, but they are fairly expensive. Peltor Comtac, Sordin/Swatcom (updated Sordin), Opscore AMPs are the ones I know of. Be prepared for some sticker shock, but if you’re spending a lot of time wearing ear pro (competing, taking classes regularly) upgraded and more comfortable ear pro is definitely worth it.

 

[CapnMac]

Sadly, buying stuff off Amazon is a bit of a dice roll. There are just too many "Amazon stores" which are basically just drop shippers. The drop shippers can offer ridiculous low prices by flogging off knock-offs or stuff bought before branding--so the product looks identical, but bears no branding information. Now, some of those products may also be seconds or QC rejects; some may not.

You only get the one set of ears, trying to protect them on the cheap is not something I'm comfortable with (at least not any more, I have enough hearing issues as is).

 

[rabid wombat]

https://proears.com/

Expensive…works well…how much are your ears worth?

Having had cataract surgery on both eyes…I will trade ears for eyes, but would like both! I abused my ears early…my fault…no reason for anyone forward to abuse their ears….

 

[js77]

Thank you all for the replies, I think I am going to return the axils and try something else.

 

[westernrover]

Indoor ranges are tough because the ambient noise level is so high. Because the background noise is going on, the mic/compressor/speaker in the headset cannot amplify your speech without also amplifying that background noise. As mentioned earlier in the thread, they don't somehow filter speech from gunfire and ventilation noise. They just amplify sound up to a certain level and then crunch everything louder than that down to a reasonable level with a compressor. The passive foam-lined cups are what protect your hearing (along with your plugs).

I can tell you that outdoors, even relatively inexpensive Walker or Peltor electronic muffs work fine. The thin ones need to be worn with plugs. The huge 30db NRR ones can be worn by themselves, but I still double up. Maybe the more expensive Pro Ears will work better indoors, but maybe not. You might have to keep speech to a minimum and yell at each other when you need to. Hopefully you find an outdoor range. They are so much more pleasant. I understand why the indoor ranges are needed in the cities, but they are truly awful places I hate to be.

 

[Jim Watson]

I did not know any muff did real compression, all I have used just cut off. My cheap HL Pros (NOT HL Sport) are usable indoors.
Beware, those high tech high dollar rigs Telekinesis cites are not very quiet.

 

[Telekinesis]

Beware, those high tech high dollar rigs Telekinesis cites are not very quiet.

They’re actually not quite as bad as some people say, especially if you look at the frequency specific ratings. But to be fair, most of them were designed to fit under helmets so they did have to make some compromises in order to get the correct form factor.

 

[westernrover]

$$$ does not equal better protection. You can get great protection from foam plugs that are a few cents, and doubled-up with $15 muffs and there's no high dollar outfit that is going to be significantly better at protection and still practical to wear. This isn't to say that all cheap stuff is just as good as anything else -- far from it. Look for the NRR and reputable brands. But as you found out, protection isn't the whole story.

The $$$ doesn't buy more protection, but it does buy the ability to hear some things you want to hear through the protection. Cheap electronics will have one mic (no directional sound) and simple limiter processing (cut-off). More expensive setups like Pro Ears will have dual microphones and independent processors in each ear cup. Spend more money and you can get 5 microphones, better audio compressors rather than just cut-off limiters and so on (example: Champion Vanquish Pro Elite). Spend the big bucks and you can get noise cancellation (this is not for hearing protection but to filter background noise) and noise-canceling microphones. That's where a lot of the $$$ on those $800-1500 and up headsets goes. Also consider that some of those units are sold with $2500 helmets and $1500-2500 radios, so the target market is not going to balk at an $800 headset. If you don't need a whole integrated personal combat communications system, then it's really not necessary.

Don't forget that ear muffs also have durability issues. Some ear cup rubbers and foam last longer than others. Some seal poorly but last a long time and others have a great seal but deteriorate more rapidly. With electronics, there's things like battery life, whether it uses lithium rechargeable or cheaper, swappable, but short-lived AAA's. And there's always weight, and compatibility with headwear. Some people need to wear helmets. Personally, I just like to have a wide-brimmed hat outdoors, but over-the-head bands typically limit me to a ball cap or a ski cap with limited sun protection. Most people shoot with eye protection, and some muffs work better with the eyeglass temples better than others.

Some people opt for electronic plugs. Those would certainly address the issues with cup foam durability and hat and glasses compatibility.

 

[koz4guns]

Sometimes I wear plugs under my electric muffs (pro ears) and it seems like they aren’t working, but what I found out is the amplification isn’t high enough.
When I remove my ear plugs I can then hear the muffs working.

 

[Jim Watson]

They’re actually not quite as bad as some people say, especially if you look at the frequency specific ratings. But to be fair, most of them were designed to fit under helmets so they did have to make some compromises in order to get the correct form factor.

Understood, but the OP was disappointed in consumer goods on a noisy range, I don't think he and his wife are tier one operators wearing helmets and radios.

I first got into specific frequency ratings with Trevor Noise Reduction where the author picked specific frequency bands to show a 22 NRR Sordin Supreme X was as good as a 30 NRR Peltor passive. But he was comparing apples to oranges, one frequency range vs an overall. I looked up the frequency breakdown of the plain Peltors and got a much higher Trevor number. Quieter is generally quieter.

Some people opt for electronic plugs. Those would certainly address the issues with cup foam durability and hat and glasses compatibility.

A friend with skin cancer susceptibility wears a floppy hat and electronic plugs.
He is lucky, he gets quite expensive individually fitted e-plugs for his work that takes him into a noisy plant.

 

[Telekinesis]

Understood, but the OP was disappointed in consumer goods on a noisy range, I don't think he and his wife are tier one operators wearing helmets and radios.

I took the OP’s question to be more about the technology within electronic ear pro and if they all clip (turn off at a certain sound level) or if there are some that actually compress the sound. I was providing some examples of ear pro that use compression. A one sentence summary of my post would probably be along the lines of “yeah, they’re out there, but they’re really expensive”. My reference to the helmets was to try to provide context for the design and a reason why these really expensive sets of ear pro aren’t the quietest out there.

You’re right, it’s very unlikely that the OP is a tier whatever operator who is wearing a helmet and needs dual downleads in order to call in air strikes over multiple radios. It’s also equally unlikely that some guy complaining about the performance of his Alibaba rebranded knock-off ear pro is going to drop $1,000 on a set of AMPs.

 

[Guy48065]

I've always worn foam plugs + muffs and was happy with that. I recently sprung for a set of noise-cancelling Bluetooth in-ear buds and was amazed to find they kill the sound of my zero-turn mower so well that except for the vibration under foot I'm not aware it's running. The problem there is in order to get that total silence I have to use the largest seals and force them into my ears.
Not comfortable, and they don't stay put.

But I now see the potential.

 

[hso]

noise-cancelling

Doesn't work for gunshots

 

[hso]

I wear plugs under Peltor or Howard Leight electronic shooting muffs and that's what I provide for shooting students and guests. We're on an outdoor range so there's no problem with instructions or discussions.

 

[js77]

I returned the AXILs just waiting for them to get delivered and refunded.

Has anyone had any experience with ATK1 Sport? I was considering to try these, according to the manufacturer they compress the sound not cut it off.

On the amazon listing the manufacturer says
The AKT1 earmuffs were designed specifically for shooting sports, not modified off an industrial earmuff, which is what makes them different from all the other earmuffs under the $400 range. The key differentiator between the two is AKT1’s do not “pause” or shut off, instead they immediately suppress the loud harmful impact noise but are always recreating the sounds coming in at a safe level so you never have the feeling of leaving your environment. This reduces hearing fatigue by the user because you’re not going “in and out” of your environment, allows for maximum situational awareness and makes speech sound crystal clear not robotic.

 

[jmorris]

He is lucky, he gets quite expensive individually fitted e-plugs for his work that takes him into a noisy plant.

My insurance covered the custom ones my ear, nose and throat doctor made for me.

 

[armoredman]

Interesting - just about to pull the trigger to order two sets of Walkers from MidwayUSA...but we only shoot outdoor ranges. The closest indoor range to me is right around 40 miles, one way. But the free public range is about 5 miles down the road.

 

[hso]

not modified off an industrial earmuff, which is what makes them different from all the other earmuffs under the $400 range.

That's false advertising. All shooting muffs are based off industrial muffs since whether you use compression or clipping you are still depending upon the cup blocking some of the sound of the shot.

I've made my recommendations on what companies to do business with and this is part of my profession dealing as a safety professional.

 

[cslinger]

Buy a set decent Peltors. I, like I surmise damn near every gun owner, at some point hemmed and hawed over buying GOOD electronic ears.

Long story short, suck it up and buy a good set of Peltors. They will last you forever and work extremely well. Mine have to be going on 15 -18 years now.

I will save you some other headaches as well. If you start carrying just suck it up and buy a good GUN BELT first. Trust me we all went through it and at the end of the day we end up with good ears and a good belt anyway.

Take care, shoot safe.

 

[bassjam]

Interesting - just about to pull the trigger to order two sets of Walkers from MidwayUSA...but we only shoot outdoor ranges. The closest indoor range to me is right around 40 miles, one way. But the free public range is about 5 miles down the road.

I have 2 sets of Walker XCEL's, a 500 (bluetooth) and 100 (non bluetooth). I only use them at an outdoor range but they work great for me. Directional hearing is impressive. The 500's sound very clear, I think I could hunt with them and be confident I could hear an animal come up to my side or behind me. The 100's speakers aren't quite as clear and there's almost always a faint hiss, it's pretty annoying to me but anyone who's never used electronic muffs still likes them so that's my loaner set. I'm not sure if the difference is because one's a 100 and the other a 500, or if it's just quality control.

 

[armoredman]

I got the XCEL 500s, and MAN, those things are NICE! I used them the other day, and you are absolutely right - I would wear these hunting. It was also wild to be able to listen to music AND answer the phone while shooting. The four sound modes are odd, but I am still learning the thing. I got my son the 100s, and he loves them. The 500 was on sale at MidwayUSA for $75.