It has to be oversized lead, right?

[bangbig]

9mm, resize/deprime, case plunks in guage and barrel. Prime said case, still plunks in guage and barrel. Expand mouth (more than needed), run through seating/crimp die (with no bullet) and case plunks in guage and barrel.

As soon as add a bullet to this process ('cept I back off on the flare to just enough to start the bullet), it must be forced into the guage and barrel.

These are Missouri Bullet 125 "small ball". They do measure slightly over @ .357" on bot a set of calipers and mics. Is this my issue? I have no other bullets to load to test with.

I am seating these to an oal of 1.110 and have seated a couple dummy rounds down to 1" and up to 1.130 and get the same results.

Thoughts?

 

[Lost Sheep]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for asking our advice

Measure the outside diameter of the case in a couple of spots
A) the mouth,
B) partway down the bullet,
C) where the bullet's base is and
D) just below where the bullet's base is.

I have a hunch B and C are significantly greater than A or D and just a bit more than the inside of your chamber.

What is the diameter of a freshly fired and ejected, unsized case at each of the four points?

Comparing those dimensions will tell the tale, I bet.

Lost Sheep

 

[Certaindeaf]

Start with maybe the de-bell process didn't quite do it and or the OAL is too long.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Possibly the bullet is seating crooked in the case, or you don't have enough flare on the case from backing the die off and are shaving the bullet into the case alone side of the bullet and oversizing the case is an end result.

If these bullets are a little oversized it wouldn't take as much on being seated a little crooked to cause problems. I don't know if .001 would do that to you but that would depend on how tight your chamber is.

Shaving bullets and having the shavings get caught in the lube groove could cause some oversize issues also I would think you should be able to measure that to see or even see it in a bulge in the case.

Just some thoughts.

 

[LiveLife]

What pistol/barrel are you using? I use .377" taper crimp with them and they chamber well even in tighter Lone Wolf and KKM aftermarket barrels.

Missouri 125 gr RN (SmallBall) should be sized at .356" unless you ordered them sized larger. They usually ship generously lubed and sometimes give you larger than 356" reading on the calipers. Wipe off the surface lube and they should read more around. 356".

If they read .357" even after you wipe off the lube, double check the accuracy of calipers/mic by measuring any jacketed bullet. Perhaps you could take them down to the gun store and measure some jacketed bullets? (they should be. 355" for 9mm, .400" for 40S&W and. 451" for 45 ACP).

If the calipers check out and the bullets are indeed .357", give Brad/JoAnn a call/email and they should help you get the correct sized bullets.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

what headstamp is your brass?

 

[918v]

Who cares if they don't pass the case gauge. I use .359" bullets in my KKM barrel and they chamber just fine. Use your chamber as a gauge and use the largest diameter bullet that will chamber in your barrel, else you'll get leading.

 

[ranger335v]

"It has to be oversized lead, right? "

I'm not sure what you mean but if you mean do cast bullets have to be larger than normal, the answer is NO; what would be the point of that?

 

[LiveLife]

Who cares if they don't pass the case gauge ... Use your chamber as a gauge and use the largest diameter bullet that will chamber in your barrel

918v, that's what I was going to post but OP stated both gauge AND barrel were tested.

case plunks in guage and barrel ... As soon as add a bullet to this process, it must be forced into the guage and barrel.

If the OP has a tight chambered barrel, larger sized lead bullet could prevent the finished round from fully chambering by bulging the case. If the finished round is only slightly snug with the chamber, it will be OK if the slide fully returns to battery and extracts/cycled reliably. BUT that snugness should be double checked to make sure it is not the bullet's bearing surface pressing against the "freebore" or leade or both.

OP, try a dummy round with 1.080"-1.100" OAL and set the taper crimp to .377" and see if that will feed/chamber reliably from the magazine.

 

[popper]

What gun? I think XD has a tapered chamber. I had to really seat deep to get them to work, but glock was no problem.

 

[moxie]

Interestingly, I just got a lot of 9mm bullets from Midway. Winchester 124 gr. FMJ. Supposed to be sized at .355". I make them at .352". Calipers are known good.

 

[ljnowell]

Interestingly, I just got a lot of 9mm bullets from Midway. Winchester 124 gr. FMJ. Supposed to be sized at .355". I make them at .352". Calipers are known good.

Not surprising. I quit buying winchester bullets. I have gotten 45 acp hollowpoints that are .4505 or .450. I also got some 158gr hollowpoints from grafs awhile back, I think they were sold as magtech, and they were .3555". A friend said, thats cause they are for 9mm. Unfortuantely though, they are a 158gr JHP with a blunt front and a cannalure. No way these were made for a 9mm autoloader. I ended up sending them back.

 

[918v]

Looks like Winchester got some brand spankin' new 9mm bullet dies.

 

[moxie]

A bit unsettling.

However, I'll load 'em up and I bet they go bang and hit the target. Seems to be the case most of the time. The reloading hobby is not quite as precise, all the time, as we might wish it to be.

 

[LiveLife]

Hello???

OP is having chambering issues with Missouri lead bullet ... discussion about under-sized Winchester bullets won't help the OP ...

 

[moxie]

bds,

You're right. If the OP's bullets are in fact over .357" then that is likely the problem, but he hasn't chimed in in response to questions.

For the OP, bangbig. The fact that your plunk test failed does indicate the bullets are too big, when combined with your raw bullet measurements. BTW, plunk testing components before you have a complete round doesn't get you much. I'd call MBC as others have suggested.

 

[bangbig]

Wow. Lots of input. THANKS!!!

Ok, lots to check here. Firearm is Kahr CM9. Case gauge is Lyman max pistol gauge. 3 different factory loads plunk in and out of both the gun and the gauge. Expanding and de-belling an empty case still passes both.

I've tried three different brands of brass. All are well under max length.

Don't have the numbers handy, but the case diameter is in at the mouth with bullet loaded. I'm thinking the seated bullet expands the case just enough that there is still a taper to the larger diameter (which is in spec), but at a faster rate so there is a point somewhere along where the bullet is seated that is too large if that makes any sense?

IOW the diameter is ok but the taper is not.

I'll def contact MBC and see what they say.

 

[OEH]

I have a batch of Missouri Small Ball that won't work in 3 of my 4 9mm's either. They measure .357 also. I'll end up using them in some .38 Spl. loads eventually. Went back to Berry's.

 

[bangbig]

I have a batch of Missouri Small Ball that won't work in 3 of my 4 9mm's either. They measure .357 also. I'll end up using them in some .38 Spl. loads eventually. Went back to Berry's.

That's interesting.

Thinking about pulling a bullet from a factory round and loading that. Or would that even tell me anything but the fact I can get good results with FMJ but not lead?

 

[LiveLife]

Using pulled jacketed bullets won't help as they are sized at .355" and probably have decreased diameter after being taper crimped and run through finishing die. By contrast, Missouri lead bullet is sized at .356" and will bulge the case quite a bit.

Brad did mention in past threads/facebook page that a past employee was a little sloppy and some boxes were sent out mis-sized. You may got lucky and bought one of those boxes. If the bullets are indeed mis-sized, call Brad/Jo Ann and they'll make it right (it's their policy ).

Here's a comparison between 115 gr Winchester FMJ, 125 gr MBC 125 gr RN and 125 gr SWC showing the case bulge (yes, they all plonk right into Lone Wolf and KKM barrels).

Here's a little better picture as it doesn't have much "optical illusion" effect (I need to take some better pictures).

 

[918v]

I have a batch of Missouri Small Ball that won't work in 3 of my 4 9mm's either. They measure .357 also. I'll end up using them in some .38 Spl. loads eventually. Went back to Berry's.

Which 9mm's are those?

Because almost every factory 9mm pistol on the planet will accept a .357" bullet. Most have .358" bores.

 

[1SOW]

Because almost every factory 9mm pistol on the planet will accept a .357" bullet. Most have .358" bores.

Mine doesn't. My son's doesn't. CZ 75B & CZ SPO1 Shadow. Also have 'short' chambers like the XD does. "Eastern European" sized.

 

[918v]

Freebore length does not have anything to do with the diameter of the bullet. The freebore diameter is what dictates bullet diameter.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

The one thing I don't see above is you need to start with slugging your bore and measuring the groove diameter to see where your barrel is at. A good lead bullet for your pistol would be between .001" and .002" larger than the groove diameter. This would allow the bullet to seal the groove, preventing gas cutting and therefore leading.

Google slugging a barrel and follow the instructions. Should find something with lead fishing weights and wooden dowels that works for your pistol.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Am I missing something?

I thought the original post was asking about difficulty chambering. The bore diameter, while important, would not affect that unless the ogive of the bullet actually got so deep into the chamber that it hit the bore. I believe he ruled that out when he tried these different OALs

I am seating these to an oal of 1.110 and have seated a couple dummy rounds down to 1" and up to 1.130 and get the same results.

as reported in post #1.

I am not trying to argue the importance of bullet-to-bore fit, but only to figure out the chambering problem.

Lost Sheep