"It's impossible to get a quality 1911 made in the USA for under $2,000"

[yhtomit]

Though a 1911 is not the highest on my list (.22 revolver comes in higher, perhaps a Cz-82, a 10/22, a 22 conversion kit for the Cz-75, etc), the Ruger really is exciting. It's not alone, though -- even the Springfield Loadeds start in the same ballpark, and the Taurus SS models, too. I just think I'd trust the reliability / fixability / support from Ruger better than I would most companies'. (Not that I've tested it -- all based on rumor, hearsay, reputation, and internet rants ).

Wish that Ruger had a bobtail, though! (Can a bobtail be gunsmithed into being? Or must it be part of the frame in the first place?)

timothy

 

[Zerodefect]

Yes you can cut the frame on fullsize 1911's to fit a custom bobbed MSH.
Not sure if it's a good idea with a cast frame, and pretty sure putting that kind of mod money into a $700 Ruger isn't worth it.

Kimber already makes a bob, so deos DW.

I did see the bottom of Rugers dust cover. It had a big warning that said this:

"Read manual before using this firearm. Guns are dangerous.
Boolits come out of this end ->. Do not load more than 10 rounds into this weapon. Discontinue use if range use lasts more than 4 hours. You may not be healthy enough to use this weapon. Consult your doctor. Why haven't you read the manual yet, do we need to print warnings on the slide as well?
Do not taunt the Ruger 1911."

 

[HGUNHNTR]

Simply get one that isn't made in the US....problem solved.

 

[Effigy]

Forgive my snickering, but what are "more modern features?"

I'd say the big ones are DA/SA trigger, no manual safety (thanks to DA), decocker, and ease of field strip. None of these are completely necessary, but they all offer functional advantages over the 1911 design. The P220 is basically just a modernized 1911, from the shooter's perspective.

re: SIG Sauer P220
Crummy trigger, two modes of firing, fragile aluminum frame, can't hold a candle to cocked and locked.

Trigger is debatable, but I like it. Two firing modes is also debatable since DA/SA is a more foolproof system, despite having to learn 2 trigger pulls for optimal control. You can't "forget" to pull the DA trigger in the heat of the moment, whereas you can forget to sweep the safety. If you want to shoot straight SA you have the option to manually cock the hammer, which takes little more effort than operating a manual safety. There are stainless-framed P220s, just as there are aluminum-framed 1911s available.

*plastic, etc.*

I understand that some people hate plastic guns, but that's mostly a question of personal preference. I think the polymer frame is proven at this point, and it certainly makes the gun lighter.

You are perhaps unintentionally embodying the old saying, "Some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing." It's okay though.

That's why those lesser pistols are on the market.

Value is relative, especially when we're comparing a great product with an arguably-greater product. The utility you gain from a $2000 pistol is not likely to be noticeable compared to a good $1000 gun. You'd have to be a competition shooter to really notice any functional difference. We're not talking about a long-range rifle, where small performance improvements could really sway the outcome.

 

[Auto426]

Auto426, do you have any reason why their parts are better quality than Ruger parts? I have no reason doubt you, as I'm no 1911 expert, but Ruger has a great rep for quality and reliability.

Colt uses more forged and cast small parts than anyone else in their price range. By the last count they only use a total of four MIM parts, whereas almost everything on a Springfield or a Kimber is MIM. Their frames and slides are forged in house, and their barrels are some of the best you can get.

 

[rman43]

Hmmm.... let's see. What 1911 can you buy for under 2K that is reliable.

I have these, all were purchased for waaaay under 2K and all are reliable:

Taurus PT1911 .45 acp (over 3K rounds without a problem)
Springfield Range Officer .45 acp
S&W E Series Bobtail Commander .45 acp
S&W 1911ES CCO sized .45 acp
Para USA OPS Officer's Model .45 acp
Dan Wesson PM7 .40 S&W
Springfield EMP .40 S&W
Springfield Loaded Target 9mm
Kimber Ultra Carry II 9mm

My next reliable one will be a Ruger SR1911!

 

[rellascout]

My my ignorance I was thinking about the customs like Ed Brown, Wilson, etc. Maybe the thread title should have been "Under $1,000" instead of "Under $2,000". Although people seem to be saying (who knows how reliable this info is) that the SR1911 will be street priced at around $650, which would seem to make it pretty untouchable IF the quality/reliability is holds up. All of this is just speculation at this point, though.

Yes....

Paid $700 for a LNIB Dan Wesson CBOB
Paid $1200 for a LNIB Les Baer TRS
Paid $600 for a NIB Colt 70 repo
Paid $585 for a NIB Colt 80
Paid $600 for a LNIB Colt CCO
Paid $900 for NIB Colt WWI

I can get a Colt Cobat Elite for $900 NIB.

 

[dcarch]

"It's impossible to get a quality 1911 made in the USA for under $2,000"
Seriously? The Kimber Custom II? The Dan Wesson Valor? The Remington R1? What about the STI Trojan? (Oh wait, that's made in the Republic of Texas. )A genuine Colt? A Les Baer? If a Les Baer isn't quality, I don't know what is... A lot of the internet forums are full of sour owl manure. I have a Kimber Custom II that I shoot comp, and it has run perfectly since day one. Don't believe everything you read on the 'net.

 

[Nushif]

Funny I always hear it's impossible to get an American 1911 under 800 bucks.

For 2k I'd better get a functional gun from whatever country I want, personally. May not be a lot of money to some, but man ... it is a pretty large chunk of the populace.

 

[Pilot]

I have two recently made Colt 1911's, both bought for around $900, and both excellent.

 

[EdLaver]

I'm buying an SR1911 when the Commander model is released for sure.

 

[StrikeFire83]

Well, as the OP, I think it's been conclusively proven that contrary to internet "wisdom" you CAN get a quality, reliable US-made 1911 not just for under $2000, but for under $800!

I have a Kimber Custom II that I shoot comp, and it has run perfectly since day one. Don't believe everything you read on the 'net.

I think it's awesome that your Kimber runs well. I had that exact same model, purchased in 2005, and while it was the most accurate gun I've ever owned and I LOVED the trigger, as I have said several times, I could NEVER get it to be reliable with anything BUT 230 gr. FMJ ammo. A gun needs to feed, fire, and eject SOME kind of reasonable JHP carry load for me to keep it in rotation. That's something my Custom II couldn't manage. I disclosed the problem and ended up selling it for a loss.

Our Military trusts and uses Italian pistols! Beretta

Our Law Enforcement trusts and uses Austrian pistols! Glock

Our FBI, DEA ATF and many others use Austrian and Swiss Pistols! Glock and Sig Sauer

For me it does take much to see who makes the best guns and it is not the USA!

As I stated earlier, at the end of the day I won't be limited to guns made in the USA. Some of the best handguns out there are made overseas. However,

1. Baretta: I have zero experience with this gun, but I have an Uncle who carried one in Desert Storm and 2 good friends who carried one in Iraq/Afghanistan. Needless to say, their feedback hasn't been all that positive. There were a lot of political factors dictating the adoption of the Beretta.

2. Glock: No argument there, my G17 has been amazing over 12,000 rounds.

3. Sig I have zero experience with them. You hear good things generally.

4. I think you're forgetting about Smith and Wesson and the M&P, they've made SERIOUS strides in the last 5 years.

 

[Effigy]

I agree the M&P series is a nice addition that can compete with Glock. Now we need some American manufacturers that can compete with SIG/H&K/FN at a similar price point.

 

[StrikeFire83]

The 1911 design is a military scrapped design.

Uh, scrapped? 75 years of use, I'd say retired. Has the 1911 been surpassed by modern designs? Yeah, at least when it comes to mass produced pistols. But it still has the best trigger of the bunch. And I'd like you to point me to another big bore pistol that you can put 8 to 9 rounds on target as quickly or accurately than a 1911.

 

[dcarch]

Well, I have heard that Kimber has had some CS "issues." Maybe I got lucky, or you got unlucky. Have you looked at the CZ 97, by the way? Find schmeky on here and ask him to show you his custom CZ 97. It is AWESOME, and the '97 is like one third the price of one of those custom 1911's.

 

[Lobo_79]

If it had run 230 gr. JHPs in a reliable manner, that would have been fine. But as I said in my original post, anything other than 230 gr. FMJ was a hot mess. Every gun I own is a self-defense gun, and if it doesn't run JHPs, it doesn't stay around very long. That said, I'm glad your Custom II was reliable. Mine wasn't and I'm definitely not alone.

Your Kimber experiences mimic mine for sure. I've always loved the form-factor of the 1911 - still do, but I was disappointed in my hands-on experience with my Tac Pro II. But, all is not lost. I've since discovered the CZ75B .40 S&W and I haven't looked at a 1911 since. Well maybe sometimes I peek at what's new...

 

[StrikeFire83]

^ I went a similar route, CZ-75B, no problems in several thousand rounds.

 

[Lobo_79]

...And I'd like you to point me to another big bore pistol that you can put 8 to 9 rounds on target as quickly or accurately than a 1911.

Now that's a challenge I can appreciate. Clearly not in the "pistol" category but here's an 8-round .357 Magnum.

[/IMG]

 

[StrikeFire83]

Nice rig. And if you can manage a double action trigger as quickly and accurately as a 1911, my hat's off to your shooting ability.

 

[Auto426]

Uh, scrapped? 75 years of use, I'd say retired. Has the 1911 been surpassed by modern designs? Yeah, at least when it comes to mass produced pistols. But it still has the best trigger of the bunch. And I'd like you to point me to another big bore pistol that you can put 8 to 9 rounds on target as quickly or accurately than a 1911.

I've seen this guy making those same claims on TFL, and I confronted him there about them. He just loves to post that link to the Wikipedia article about the S&W 39, but I don't think he's ever actually read the whole thing. He'll tell you all day long the military "scrapped" the 1911 in the late 1940's just because they had a pistol trial. A pistol trial that didn't result in any changes. Turns out he was your run of the mill Glock fanboy, spouting off about things he doesn't have a clue about.

 

[orionengnr]

Buy used.
In the past 25 years, I have owned about 25 1911s. Most have been sold, and up until the Baer in December 09, I never paid more than $1000 for any of them....most were considerably less.

Three Colts, one new, all gone.
Three Springfields (two EMPs, the second a factory replacement for the first, both incredibly troubled, and each made at least two trips back to the factory), all gone.
Four Paras, two new, all but one gone.
Eight Kimbers, all but one bought used. Still have several of them, including the Pro Eclipse on my hip as I type this. It is my range gun, competition gun, EDC gun. Paid $800 for it, used.
As for the pricier ones, I bought a used Les Baer and a used 10mm DW CBOB for $1100 each. Deals are out there; keep your eye open.

 

[Rife Ling]

I picked up a PARA GI Expert last year for $650.00 and have absolutely no complaints other than the finish, and I roll and shoot my own in all weights and pretty much what's on sale if I need some ammo quick and have never had a problem. It just works. Oh one other thing, I wish I could find an adjustable rear sight for it, without any machining needed. Picked it up at Wolverine Supplies

 

[makarovnik]

Pooh. I do think there are better platforms out there though for less money.

 

[EddieNFL]

Ive never seen a Kimber yet that can't be made 100% reliable with about 5 minutes & a Dremel cratex tip to knock off the sharp edges left on the chamber & feed ramp.

Don't forget to properly tension the extractor and ensure the slide stop tab is within specs.

Everything you and I have mentioned should be accomplished before shipping.

 

[Auto426]

I lol'd because someone on the last page predicted you posting that.

Seems to me if they thought the Model 39 was better than the 1911, they would have actually adopted it.

I went through the same song and dance over at TFL. As you can see, he knows basically nothing about the history of the 1911 with our armed services, but he sure does like to act like he does. After a couple of pages of him basically repeating the same false statements, the real truth came out. Suddenly the conversation switch from the 1911's history to how much superior Glock's are. Big surprise.

FYI, this is the same guy who is on another thread talking about how great FMJ ammunition is for self defense, since, after all, the military doesn't use hollow points...