Mark_Mark
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what’s the longest 45 buffalo round did they make? 45-120?
Yeah, with its brass butt plate, it does tend to get a persons attention if they're wearing light clothing.
I've Never Handloaded Before
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.308 Norma
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Actually, my SPG Lubricants loading manual lists a .50-140 Sharps, and it lists its OAL at 3.825".
Here's what it says about it: "it is a high performance .50 caliber hunting round which compares favorably with some of the old British dangerous game calibers."
It sounds "dangerous" on both ends to me!
Mark_Mark
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Good God Almighty! I want to shoot itActually, my SPG Lubricants loading manual lists a .50-140 Sharps, and it lists its OAL at 3.825".
Here's what it says about it: "it is a high performance .50 caliber hunting round which compares favorably with some of the old British dangerous game calibers."
It sounds "dangerous" on both ends to me!
Jim Watson
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There is some debate over whether the Sharps Rifle Co. ever sold a gun with 3 1/4" chamber, the ammo was made but the barrels are thought by some to all be rechambering jobs.
There are period reports of shooters heavily compressing larger powder charges. A determined loader might could get 120 grains into a 2 7/8" case.
A friend has a .450 3 1/4" BPE express rifle. I think his BP load in modern drawn brass is 106 grains.
There are period reports of shooters heavily compressing larger powder charges. A determined loader might could get 120 grains into a 2 7/8" case.
A friend has a .450 3 1/4" BPE express rifle. I think his BP load in modern drawn brass is 106 grains.
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I just ordered 3 classic lee loaders in 45/70 and 45acp and .357 just for instructional purposes to novice loaders like my nephews and nieces and those interested in hand loading. I have one question for those that have experience with these classic lee loaders. Is the dipper or scoop in the 45/70 measured in volume for black powder or grains for smokeless?
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My hats off to you, I shot the 45/110 3 times a few years ago every time I remember I develop a latent image of a bruise on my shoulder. Had to take Motrin for 3 days, 45/70 is what I prefer to shoot. If I want pain, she better be wearing leather.
Yeah, with its brass butt plate, it does tend to get a persons attention if they're wearing light clothing.
GeoDudeFlorida
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Dippers are always volume. How many grain of powder they are depends on the volume measure density of the powder. I figured out my black dipper for .45 was about 4-1/2cc by throwing samples and weighing them of a powder whose vmd I knew. The dippers I had for BP were actually Lee 3/4oz shot dippers but they threw around 66-68gr of Olde Eynesford FFg pretty consistently, which is close enough for me. When you figure out your powder you make a dipper out of a shot measure and check every load thrown
This thread is getting kinda long, but I haven't seen anyone mention a dial caliper for measuring your overall length when setting up that seating die.
Also a good idea to have a scale handy to confirm what your technique with the dipper actually throws in charge weight. Technique can vary the volume substantially.
I love those Lee Classic loaders! There have been many times when they're all I used.
Also a good idea to have a scale handy to confirm what your technique with the dipper actually throws in charge weight. Technique can vary the volume substantially.
I love those Lee Classic loaders! There have been many times when they're all I used.
The problem with that is I look at the data and it might as well be written in Greek. Like the thread title said, I've never handloaded before besides I have been a casual shooter all my life so I never got into all the technical terminology related to ammo. Heck it wasn't until recently I understood what fps stood for and as a casual shooter why would I care. Then we get into diameters, pressures, etc, etc and my mind goes blank, kinda like many of you would be if I started computer geek talk (Geekenese).
GeoDudeFlorida
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Oh! I get it! You're having a protocol mismatch error! Why didn't you say so?
Seriously, I think the best thing is to read the "How to.." chapters in the reloading manuals. Start with Lyman or Lee, Hornady, Speer, it doesn't matter, they ALL dedicate the first four or five chapters to learning terminology and how to interpret the data in their books. Imagine trying to write an app in dotNET without ever learning anything about coding or logic, figuring you've used a computer so how hard can programming be? Right?
Jim Watson
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There's your problem. People jump to the data and look for the Big Numbers.
You need the first part of the manual with the hows and whys, and a glossary for the big words.
Honestly the only reason I'm considering reloading the 45-70 is the cost of manufactured ammo for that specific firearm. I have no interest in hand loading beyond that. That said what I'm looking for is "insert part A into part B, measure part C to this amount then insert part C into part B........... etc." I could care less how different loads work, I want a basic, generic load to plink with, nothing more, nothing less.Oh! I get it! You're having a protocol mismatch error! Why didn't you say so?
Seriously, I think the best thing is to read the "How to.." chapters in the reloading manuals. Start with Lyman or Lee, Hornady, Speer, it doesn't matter, they ALL dedicate the first four or five chapters to learning terminology and how to interpret the data in their books. Imagine trying to write an app in dotNET without ever learning anything about coding or logic, figuring you've used a computer so how hard can programming be? Right?
Like I just told Geodude, I'm not interested, I don't want to learn handloading in a broad sense I just want to do a generic load for 45-70 in black powder. Ya know, do step 1 through 5, here are you measurement, here's what you need..... I will never work up loads to maximize my accuracy and I doubt I will hand load any other cartridge, ever.
GeoDudeFlorida
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That's how people end up with nicknames like "Stumpy" and "Ol' One-Eye." You're not assembling furniture.
Yes and no. If someone has a generic load that they do that works consistently with the specific cartridge I'm dealing with then if I do what they do it should be safe to shoot. If I started playing with it that's where the potential trouble begins. If that's truly not a viable plan then I guess I'll just have to buy commercial or sell the rifle.
Vern Humphrey
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There is an instruction sheet with your Lee Loader -- it will tell you what weights of bullets and types of powder are best.
Shooterbob
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Even if you just want 1 load for 1 caliber you still need to understand what your doing. I suggest a load manual it will give you the basics you need to be safe.all the things you don’t understand are important.Best of luck to you.If your not interested in the process of handloading them buy factory stuff. There really are no shortcuts in this game.
Okay, if that's the case then I probably won't be hand loading my own. I guess I was thinking this would be simple. I know how to be careful with powder, primers, etc like never prime a cartridge with powder in it, that would be like lighting up when loading black powder paper cartridges. I know the difference between Berdan vs Boxer primed and to look for damaged/worn brass casings but I wanted to keep this on the cheap and not invest a lot of time and money into it.
Thanks all for your input.
Jim Watson
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Well your Lee Loader has an instruction sheet with pictures and everything. Do what it says up until you get to the part about powder.
Dump in enough powder that seating the bullet will mash it down a bit. Not too much, that will distort the bullet and accuracy will be poor. You can make a dipper by cutting off a case to the right length and gluing or soldering on a handle.
Use a dowel to push a snug wad down onto the powder.
Seat the bullet like the instructions say.
You don't have to buy wads. Take an extra empty case, use a deburring tool or countersink or knife point to sharpen the mouth. Whack it down on cardboard tablet backing or milk carton cardboard to cut wads.
Bullets should be moderately soft cast, not pure lead like you need for a muzzleloader. The Army used 405 grain bullets to start, 500 grain later. I think Sharps used 460 or 480 grain bullets.
My neighbor the gunsmith used this one.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/459-395-grain-rn-hand-cast-b-457124-459.html
The bullet lube is IMPORTANT, it must be for black powder, SPG is one brand.
A hard cast bullet with hard blue wax will not work at all.
If a buffalo hunter could load ammo in camp in the 1870s, surely you can manage it.
I doubt they really dug the bullets out of buffalo carcasses to melt down and cast new, though. There are period records of orders of cases of paper patch bullets, kegs of powder, and lots of primers.
Mark_Mark
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I got a feeling Black Powder sounds different from Smokeless
Much different. Fill a muzzleloader barrel with black powder and set it off you'll probably not damage the barrel, Fill the same barrel an eighth of the way with smokeless and you've just created a pipe bomb.
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Jim Watson
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Black has kind of a boom; low pressure, lots of smoke.
If you mean the loading, black powder is inefficient versus nitro so it takes a lot more and it is more forgiving in casual use. A lot of users are happy with straight volume measure.
If you mean the loading, black powder is inefficient versus nitro so it takes a lot more and it is more forgiving in casual use. A lot of users are happy with straight volume measure.
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