Iver Johnson M1 Carbine

[bjamesM1]

I just bought a "new" to me Iver Johnson M1 Carbine. From what I've found out it was manufactured in 1985. I bought it after shooting my father-in-laws Plainfield Machine M1 from 1965 that he had purchase himself.

His Plainfield is a tight gun, shoots great to this day. I had to have one for me and my son to shoot steel at our range. So, I found the Iver used. I got some problems.

Here are the two carbines up at my father-in-laws place over the holiday:



The Iver Johnson:


The Plainfield Machine:


My issue here is that the IJ won't feed ammo! The magazine sits low in the receiver. Here are two pictures. The first shows the magazine with the bolt open as it sits in the receiver:

This shows the magazine - when pushed up into the gun. To shoot/load, I have to push the magazine up in order for the bolt to grab the rounds. Look at how much the magazine moves. The Plainfield holds the mag tight in place.


I think I've narrowed the problem down to this. By the way, I took the Plainfield Machine Trigger Group and put it in the IJ. It fit perfectly and held the magazines and fed the ammo perfectly.

Any thoughts? Any ideas on where to get a new Trigger Group, or Housing? Can I just get a trigger group and use the parts from mine in a new housing? Can I get this gun working without spending a lot of money?

 

[bjamesM1]

There is also a bit of movement of my barrel. Look at the gap on the Iver Johnson (on right) between the barrel and strap. I've read that there is often a bit of barrel movement on M1's, but any I've checked out in Gun Stores or my father-in-laws are not loose like the IJ.

 

[Trent]

Wow. That's a hell of a loose fit.

Option A, if you can find a replacement trigger group, may as well salvage your purchase and get one. What use is a weapon that isn't reliable?

Option B, have the trigger group inspected and (if possible) fixed by a smith.

As far as that barrel goes.. how is your accuracy compared to your fathers? Does the barrel actually move around???

Looks like Iver's quality control folks were asleep at the wheel when that rifle was assembled.

 

[Sport45]

Did you try shooting with one of his mags?

 

[bjamesM1]

The mags are really loose. I clicked his mag in and it fit the same. I didn't shoot with his mag. It's older and is a 15 round and I wasn't sure if I could be using it here in California.

Yeah, it's a shame, my first purchase online and I get a crankly little gun. I was busy focusing on the fit and feeding problems when I got to shoot them. As far as accuracy, I don't think mine is as accurate as his. When I first shot his (which is why I bought mine) I hit everything I aimed at. We have a steel pistol range that allows the M1's with steels at 25, 25, 75, 100 yards. You pointed at it, you hit it with his Plainfield. I'd say, when I first shot the IJ, it wasn't nearly that accurate. I will see him again in a few weeks, we'll have to put the two on paper to see about accuracy.

I shot his with my mags (2 different kinds: ProMag and KeepShooting.com Mag). His functioned perfectly with my mags.

I am looking around the internet and see a few options for Trigger Housings ( I assume I can use my trigger guts) and it seems I can find something in the $50 - 75 range. Should I be buying new (Fulton Armory), or a used USGI Trigger Housing?

Thanks!

 

[Eric F]

2 things here......I have had both issues

1 reciever is poorly machined, must be replaced($200 installed for me in the 90's get a plainfield reciever)

2. Trigger group is poorly machined, replace($75 installed in the 90's also)

As for the barrel is the barrel loose ror is it just a poor fit in the stock?

Fulton armory may have trigger groups, I found my reciever and trigger group in the shotgun news but I do not recall the source.

You may want to get a spare trigger group and bolt too, bolts break in these guns after a while.

 

[rondog]

Sell it and look for a better one.

 

[Sport45]

Check and see if USGI parts will work in the IJ before you buy any.

 

[Trent]

Get rid of it? I dunno Ron, this is a good excuse for him to learn a little about gunsmithing.

Find out which dimensions are wrong and causing the mag fit problem, and correct it.

 

[bjamesM1]

From what I've read, USGI parts will work in the IJ. I did place my father-in-law's Plainfield Trigger Group/Housing into my IJ and it worked great. That seemed to solve the feeding problem. I didn't get to shoot it that way, but I loaded some mags, cycled the bolt and all the rounds fed and ejected. I did this with 3 different mags.

Is that enough evidence that at least the trigger housing is a main culprit?

Regarding gunsmithing this baby, I would love to. But, I'm into this because it was a cheap rifle. If I do too much, it won't be cheap and it won't be a "good" one. I supposed that doesn't matter, if it's a shooter, right?!

Thanks for the input...

 

[bjamesM1]

Regarding the Barrel. The barrel is loose in the stock, or the barrel band. The barrel is not loose from the receiver when it's taken apart. In the picture above you can see the gap between the top of the barrel and the top of the barrel band. That's where it's loose. It moves up and down within the band there.

 

[Eric F]

IJ and plainfield are both mil spec.....as far as fixing it, do it when you have the money, I suspect your stock is over cut, meaning a new stock is in irder for you.

 

[Trent]

OK, so a bedding job is in order for that gap on the stock. It'll surely help accuracy. That can be fun. You have a few different options; wood patching and fiberglass are the norm. I won't go in to wood patching (kind of an art there, and you only have a small bit of wood touching that barrel), but fiberglass is pretty quick to cover and reasonably easy to DIY.

Fiberglass is cheap at the local autobody shop, something like Keystone Light would be fine (remember use only a TINY bit of curing agent and mix a fairly small quantity on a pad, you don't want it to harden too quickly and no sense in wasting a bunch ..).

Chisel out any of the existing bedding, roughen up the interior of the existing bed (so it'll stick), build a plasticene dam at each end to keep fiberglass from squishing out, tape and coat EVERYTHING you do not want sticking to the fiberglass -action, barrel, and exterior of stock surface - with a release agent so fiberglass don't stick to ANYTHING! This is critical! Once it dries, it's like concrete and it'll be very, very bad if you have non-coated gun parts touching the fiberglass...

Spread the mix in the stock uniformly and reasonably thin (it won't take much fiberglass at all). Quickly, but carefully, before the mix hardens, stick the coated action and barrel in and press gently to let the fiberglass conform to it.

Wait until it's cured before removing the barrel. Depending on the amount of hardening catalyst you mixed in this could take 2 minutes to a half hour. Err on the side of caution. If you pull the barrel / action out early it'll "suck up" any uncured mix and you'll have to start all over again; and that crap, once hard, is hell to sand out of a stock (sideshaft grinder time).

Sand it smooth. You have various options to check for hard contact points; a wet barrel with a light but uniform dusting of mica, or flower, etc in the stock will pick up on the stock if it hits any high spots, and show you where you need to sand down / smooth out. You want as much of the barrel to be in uniform contact with the stock as possible.

You shouldn't have much to do - contact points of wood to metal on an M1 are pretty small, will be a fraction of the quantity you'd use if you were to rebed a mauser, enfield, mosin nagant, etc.

There's articles with pictures out there for various rifles, probably some you-tube videos as well, to watch before you try. It's pretty simple stuff - I learned fiberglass repairing motorcycle plastic for racing repairs, has lended itself well to firearms in some cases.

On to that trigger group housing - it certainly might be repairable. Like I said before, figure out where the dimensions are different between your fathers, and you might find there is a solution to be had... (measure where the magazines contact points are on his, vs. yours, and look for your "root cause").

 

[bjamesM1]

Trent,

Thanks for the details! Question on the barrel and band. The barrel rides in the band. How tight should the inner band be around the barrel? It looks like the underside of the inner band, where it separated is spread open a bit, maybe from force it got bent open. Can I squeeze that together and create more tension on the barrel?

Also, if you look at the last photo above of the two gun's barrel bands, the IJ on the right doesn't seem to fit in a couple places. Look at the top right edge (left in the picture) of the band as it rounds the top of the barrel. Comparing that to the band on the Plainfield, it's a loose fit. Or, it rather seems a miss-fit. Also, looking at the screws on the bottom of both, see how the IJ doesn't have a spacer and screws further together, but doesn't seem to provide a tighter fit. Could that be something to play with before bedding?

Funny, I do have a Mosin 91/30 and just picked up a Yugo Mauser M48. The Mosin shoots great (on Steel) and I can't wait to shoot the Mauser. I hope I don't need your advice on that as well! We'll see.

I don't have my father-in-law's gun with me at home. He's coming down with it again in December, so I'll see what I can do. I've had my trigger group out and although there are wear spots on the side, that don't make much sense, it doesn't seem bent, or anything. I put a magnet to it and it's steel (not aluminum).

I found a trigger housing online USGI that is only $45. I may get that and try it. I'm sure I can always use it as the M1 Bug has got me. I don't think it will be long before my wife is mad I got a 2nd M1 (WWII version). "Why do you need 2 of the same?!" Haha

Thanks again.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

IJ and plainfield are both mil spec

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly disagree. While there are (some) USGI parts that will interchange into factory IJ & Plainfield M1 Carbines, neither one of those weapons are "mil spec".

 

[bjamesM1]

I just pinched the inner band and it basically eliminated the barrel movement. I doubt it will stay that way after time, but could that have been the majority of the issue on the barrel movement? And, if I'm lucky it will also fix the magazine and feeding issues? (Kidding!)

 

[Trent]

Could cork the stock. In that 91/30 freefloat thread on here, I was just (yesterday) introduced to one of the old timer methods of laying cork strips in between stock & barrel ... easy and very cheap.

 

[bjamesM1]

Update:
I found a Trigger Housing and replaced my old one - using all the trigger components from the original. It works! I shot about 150 rounds at the range. All of my mags seated tightly. There were no failure to loads. When I switched to Prvi Partisan Soft Point rounds there was some issues where once in a while the tip of the round would jam against the feed ramp. But, this was once in a while. Someone on another forum suggested slightly polishing the feed ramp. I'll give that a shot next.

Accuracy:
I didn't shoot paper. I threw out clay pigeons onto the 100 yard berm at my range while I was also testing my new M48 Mauser. I was able to hit them, or nearly miss them pretty easily. That was a lot of fun. I then took the gun over to the steel pistol range (ASR in Los Angeles) that has steel targets ranging in size at 35, 50, 75, and 100 yards. Again, I hit these steels with ease.

I bought this rifle after firing my father-in-law's Plainfield at this range. It was like having a 10/22 with more kick - you point, shoot and hit what you aim at. If things don't change for the worse, I think I have a fun little plinker.

I was at a gun show this past weekend. I picked up and looked at a dozen M1 Carbines. What a difference in quality between mine and all of those older military carbines. Someday, I'll have to pick one of those up.

 

[WALKERs210]

I have one of the Iver Johnson M1's that shoots great, fit is perfect. Over the weekend my grandson and I were wasting ammo and the M1 lost the extractor. Gunsmith at shop where I purchased it already has it in his shop, he assured me it would be back up running very soon at no charge. Grouping was much better than I expected and in the hands of my grandson (11yr) they were tighter. Almost glad we had an issue because that kid was showing up everyone with his accuracy

 

[bjamesM1]

Walkers210,

How tight is your barrel band? As you read above, mine was quite loose and the barrel moved around quite a bit. But I tightened the inner band with some pliars and it's tighter - but not as solid as other M1's I've picked up in shops etc. Certainly my father-in-law's Plainfield is much tighter. But, I'm hitting plates and even clay pigeons at 100 yards pretty easily. I just wonder if I need a new tighter band.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have had two barrel bands on my IBM M1 Carbine. The replacement is tight. The old one had lotsa play.

I think the clearance between the stock and the barrel is to allow for cooling as the semi-auto was meant to fired a lot in one session. I am not sure that bedding the stock and barrel like it was a bolt action rifle is the best solution, although if you use it as a "ranch rifle"--hunting game and controlling predators--that might be an option.