Journey to Selecting a 9mm die set for a Progressive Press

[9mmepiphany]

Several years ago, I asked for imput as to the ultimate dies (not sets) to load 9 x 19mm. I got a lot of very useful advice and thought I'd share my journey in selecting the dies that seem to work best. I have both a Hornady LNL AP and a Dillon 750 on my bench. The 750 belongs to a friend and is dedicated to loading 9 x 19mm

I started with a RCBS set I got at a estate sale, but they didn't work very well on the Hornady LNL AP I acquired. The Lee set I got next were even worst as they were very short when installed in the press. Finally got a set of Hornady dies which had plenty of die body length.

I didn't care for the Hornady expander as the only way to adjust it was the screw the whole did in and out. I added a Lyman M-die on the recommendation of this forum and expansion is perfect. As I started loading different bullets, the Redding Competition Seating die seemed the obvious addition. I had been using a Lee FCD to iron out cartridges that weren't always Case Gauge friendly. Going with a Lee Undersized Resizing die solved a lot of those "fit" issues.

When my buddy bought his Dillon 750, he started with Dillon dies. Loved the spring loaded depriming pin, but wasn't thrilled with how it resized...so he installed the Lee Undersized Resizer. Hated the "wasp waist" he was getting and moved up to the Mighty Armory Resizer...which also came with a spring loaded depriming pin.

The Dillon expanding insert for the powder measure was less than optimal in holding bullets straight between stations. So we added the powder funnel from DAA which uses the M-die profile...it comes with the Mr Bulletfeeder. We still experiment with a lot of different bullets, so the Redding Competition Seating die was added and we crimp with a Lee FCD. We likely don't need the FCD, but it was already installed and we just left it.

Our the final solution for loading 9 x 19mm turned out to be:
1. Mighty Armory TNT Gold Match Sizing die with TNT Gold Match Decapping Kit
2. Redding Expander die or...if you use a powder through expander...DAA Powder Funnel
3. Redding Competition Seating die
4. Lee FCD

 

[Mark_Mark]

Several years ago, I asked for imput as to the ultimate dies to load 9 x 19mm. I got a lkot of very useful advice and thought I'd share my journey to selecting the dies that seem to work best. I have both a Hornady LNL AP and a Dillon 750 on my bench. The 750 belongs to a friend and is dedicated to loading 9 x 19mm

I started with a RCBS set I got at a estate sale, but they didn't work very well on the Hornady LNL AP I acquired. The Lee set I got next were even worst as they were very short when installed in the press. Finally got a set of Hornady dies which had plenty of die body length.

I didn't care for the Hornady expander as the only way to adjust it was the screw the whole did in and out. I added a Lyman M-die on the recommendation of this forum and expansion is perfect. As I started loading different bullets, the Redding Competition Seating die seemed the obvious addition. I had been using a Lee FCD to iron out cartridges that weren't always Case Gauge friendly. Going with a Lee Undersized Resizing die solved a lot of those "fit" issues.

When my buddy bought his Dillon 750, he started with Dillon dies. Loved the spring loaded depriming pin, but wasn't thrilled with how it resized...so he installed the Lee Undersized Resizer. Hated the "wasp waist" he was getting and moved up to the Mighty Armory Resizer...which also came with a spring loaded depriming pin.

The Dillon expanding insert for the powder measure was less than optimal in holding bullets straight between stations. So we added the powder funnel from DAA which uses the M-die profile...it comes with the Mr Bulletfeeder. We still experiment with a lot of different bullets, so the Redding Competition Seating die was added and we crimp with a Lee FCD. We likely don't need the FCD, but it was already installed and we just left it.

Our the final solution for loading 9 x 19mm turned out to be:
1. Mighty Armory TNT Gold Match Sizing die with TNT Gold Match Decapping Kit
2. Redding Expander die or...if you use a powder through expander...DAA Powder Funnel
3. Redding Competition Seating die
4. Lee FCD

I love how $15 Lee Factory Crimp Die find its way into a melting pot of $100+ dies!

 

[9mmepiphany]

I had to resist the temptation of buying a Redding Micrometer Crimp die

 

[Warpiece]

Has the redding seating die had issues with any of the bullet types you've tried so far?

 

[lordpaxman]

Thanks for the update! What a list of dies. Your “final” solution, is that what you run on both the LNL and 750?

I started with a RCBS set I got at a estate sale, but they didn't work very well on the Hornady LNL AP I acquired.

I was running my older RCBS carbide dies in my LNL and with the exception of not having a lot of thread left they seemed to do the job ok.

When my buddy bought his Dillon 750, he started with Dillon dies. Loved the spring loaded depriming pin, but wasn't thrilled with how it resized...so he installed the Lee Undersized Resizer. Hated the "wasp waist" he was getting and moved up to the Mighty Armory Resizer...which also came with a spring loaded depriming pin.

I didn’t know these even existed. Having just set up an RL1100 with Dillon’s dies, they work pretty well for me. I read things like this and wonder if upgrading would be worth it. Can you elaborate on the resizing issues?
I did get the AA PTX as I run both coated and jacketed. I’d really like to justify getting the Redding competition seater but I can’t quite quantify the ROI. Is there some way you did?

I ran a Lee FCD on my LNL, but decided to skip it on the RL1100. I only had it set to remove the bell, but always wondered if it was swaging coated bullets like all the haters say. There’s about 2% that don’t gauge all the way but they still run fine in my guns. I can’t say there’s any difference in group sizes so far, but that could be due to my aging condition.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I'm very satisfied with my Redding 9mm comp seater. Instant accuracy improvement over the Lee seater with XTP/HAP and especially FMJ/ball.
The micrometer head is a huge time saver during setup.

 

[jmorris]

I have won more matches with rounds loaded with Lee sizing and FCD. Than anything else but there isn’t the same accuracy demand as precision rifle and I long ago began roll sizing my brass for 100% reliability.

For the last 14 years I have used the GSI seater (in their tool head) because it holds the bullet perfectly straight while it being seated. Using them I don’t need an expander that opens the case more than the Dillon expanders and very little bell, even with coated bullets.

If you don’t have a measuring tool you can’t even tell that the case is belled, so little is required.



A few years ago I made this, so all my dies are now micrometer adjustable.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Has the redding seating die had issues with any of the bullet types you've tried so far?

Not that we've seen so far.

We're mostly loading RMR jacketed MW and RN in all the weights offered. We loaded some Hi-Tek coated (125gr & 147gr) and there was no compromise of the coating...we adjusted the expander slightly. We even loaded some plated Xtreme 115gr RN I found in the back of a shelf and they loaded fine. We have the Mr Bulletfeeder tuned so that it didn't require adjustment between bullet weight or profiles

 

[9mmepiphany]

Your “final” solution, is that what you run on both the LNL and 750?

It is my 9 x 19mm solution and is what we have on the 750. Since he has all the bell-n-whistles on it, we use it to do all our 9mm loading...about 1.5k rounds a month; we slowed down to save primers

The LNL is used to load .38Spl and is equipped with a Redding die set. It includes a Dual Ring Carbide Sizing die, a Expander (I don't use a powder through die), and the Competition Seating die...my practice loads require slightly different seating settings from my competition loads due to different bullet profiles.

Between the M-profile expander and the Comp seating die, coated bullets aren't shaving at all. I'm using the Redding Profile Crimp die to roll crimp

I didn’t know these even existed...
... I read things like this and wonder if upgrading would be worth it. Can you elaborate on the resizing issues?

I'm going to assume you're referring to the Mighty Armory (MA) die...as opposed to the 750.

Being a new reloader, my buddy wanted everything set up just right. We liked the way the Dillon spring loaded decapper kicked off primers, but he felt we were getting too many failures when case gauging. So he changed to the Lee Undersized resizer. The wasp-waist of the resulting loaded rounds bothered him and he read that the MA addressed this issue.

The MA dies are really very nice and indeed does not produce wasp-waisted cases. The available spring loaded decapping pin was an added bonus. The only downside is that they do not use a carbide ring...which requires that cases be lubed prior to sizing. This wasn't a large issue as we were already lubing cases prior to processing...reduces effort by almost 50% and makes a difference when you're making a 1k+run

 

[Walkalong]

The MA dies are really very nice and indeed does not produce wasp-waisted cases.

I'm assuming it's tapered like the case then, like my Lee carbide sizer that works so well, better than the standard Redding I had, it worked, but really wasp waisted the round. It had a short carbide insert, where the Lee has a long tapered one.

The MA advertising on the site kind of turned me off, but feedback from someone who's opinion I value is far better than any advertising.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The MA advertising on the site kind of turned me off, but feedback from someone who's opinion I value is far better than any advertising.

Me too, but the examples I've seen/used have been very nice. The add-on spring loaded decapping pin assembly is also a nice feature...but now we're getting into the $140 neighborhood. A nice thing is having a strong 30 year old running the handle to pump out 9mm rounds...he also has the DAA Primer Pro primer tube loader mounted on an arm attached to the Inline Fabrication Ultramount

They are priced a bit rich for my blood...I've been happy with the Lee Resizing die that you recommended when I first started out. I've gone with the Redding dies in straight wall cases because of the availability of their Dual Ring Carbide dies

 

[jmorris]

wasp waisted

I guess that makes sense, only an old guy would say they were “coke bottled”.

 

[lightman]

Some of you have mentioned the advertising so I had to go to the site and check it out. Having grown up with a Herter's catalog and all of their wild claims I didn't see anything on the Mighty Armory site that stood out!

 

[Hrbie22]

Without reading any of the replies of this post. I started and still use Lee Die Sets. On my 650 its all Lee. I have just had good luck with them and I am happy with the quality of the ammo produce.

 

[Alex G]

I wasn’t aware Dillon made sizing dies with spring loaded decapping pins? Can someone tell me more?

 

[Dudedog]

For 9mm
I ended up with (but I didn't try any expensive Redding dies)

Lee decap/resize normal not undersized (Hornady is smoother Lee sizes tighter)
Lyman M die
Hornady Taper seat crimp (they have two different ones for 9mm)
Lee FCD since I use range brass and shoot matches, I like it for 9mm.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I wasn’t aware Dillon made sizing dies with spring loaded decapping pins? Can someone tell me more?

Here you go:
https://www.dillonprecision.com/carbide-sizing-depriming-dies_8_4_24457.html

 

[jmorris]

I wasn’t aware Dillon made sizing dies with spring loaded decapping pins? Can someone tell me more?

Just their pistol dies, they make their rifle dies with a stuck case remover instead of the spring loaded decapper.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I love how $15 Lee Factory Crimp Die find its way into a melting pot of $100+ dies!

Just a small update.

I mentioned this thread to my buddy and his immediate response was, "They make a micrometer adjustable crimp die?"...the fact that the FCD tended to drift during a longer run has always irritated him. A few days later, the Lee FCD no longer has a home on his 750. The FCD has been replaced by a beautiful new Redding Micrometer Adjustable Crimp die.

I have to admit that the Redding die is very nicely finished and as an added bonus, it has a reversible internal crimping sleeve which can apply the crimp for two different cartridges....the 9mm one reverses to crimp .38Super. It worked very well with the markings being accurate in applying .001" increments of crimp. The crimp applied is very smooth and even (more than the FCD)

 

[9mmepiphany]

I’d really like to justify getting the Redding competition seater but I can’t quite quantify the ROI. Is there some way you did?

I'm sorry I missed addressing this earlier.

I was lead to the Redding Competition Seating die (RCS) by an issue I encountered when I first started loading coated bullets for .38Spl. I was shaving the Hi-Tek coating on the bullets. I pretty much traced it down to not starting the bullets straight

I trimmed all my cases to a uniform length to insure uniform expansion and crimp. I replaced my Hornady expander with a Lyman M-die profile expander to get a nice seat for the base of the bullet...still shaving coating. Obviously the bullet was tilting as/after it entered the seating die; I had hoped the Hornady guide sleeve of the seating die would be enough...it was not.

The RCS also has a sleeve which helps guide the bullet into the die. The difference is that the sliding sleeve continues to hold the case and bullet in alignment as the floating seating stem pushes the bullet into the case...the tolerences are so tight that the seating stem will float in the sleeve if you seal off the column of air beneath it.( I read it, didn't believe it, and tested it myself) This alignment enhancement has cured my shaving issues

 

[Mark_Mark]

Just a small update.

I mentioned this thread to my buddy and his immediate response was, "They make a micrometer adjustable crimp die?"...the fact that the FCD tend to drift during a longer run has always irritated him. A few days later, the Lee FCD no longer has a home on his 750. The FCD has been replaced by a beautiful new Redding Micrometer Adjustable Crimp die.

I have to admit that the Redding die is very nicely finished and as an added bonus, it has a reversible internal crimping sleeve which can apply the crimp for two different cartridges....the 9mm one reverses to crimp .38Super. It worked very well with the markings being accurate in applying .001" increments of crimp. The crimp applied is very smooth and even (more than the FCD)

I didn’t know crimping needed a .001 micrometers tolerance. I’m going back to using a Lee Loader.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I didn’t know crimping needed a .001 micrometers tolerance

It doesn't, you don't need it for setting seating depth either, but the RCS has the same accuracy per increment markings...so they must be useful for something

 

[Mark_Mark]

It doesn't, you don't need it for setting seating depth either, but the RCS has the same accuracy per increment markings...so they must be useful for something

There are 2 types of reloader.

1: you; latest and greatest... and make sure there are redundancy. Scales are calibrated to .01 grams with certified weights. Perfect 9mm

2: me; .460 mag, .458 Socom, 7STW, 50BW, 45-120.... everything is $2 a round. Let’s try reloading.... it chambers, good enough

 

[9mmepiphany]

1: you; latest and greatest... and make sure there are redundancy.

I wish that were true. Then I'd have a Lyman Mark 7 Revolution...gear driven progressive, including their motorized programmable (for load) powder measure, primer collator with continuous feed, and a production rate up to 3500 rds/hr...for handgun rounds.

For rifle rounds, maybe an Area 419 Zero turret press

 

[Mark_Mark]

I wish that were true. Then I'd have a Lyman Mark 7 Revolution...gear driven progressive, including their motorized programmable (for load) powder measure, primer collator with continuous feed, and a production rate up to 3500 rds/hr...for handgun rounds.

For rifle rounds, maybe an Area 419 Zero turret press

well, I see a shiny new hammer for my Lee Loader!