Judging Gun Rights: Are They Inalienable?

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TownHall.com:

Judging Gun Rights: Are They Inalienable?

By Ken Blackwell
Thursday, March 6, 2008


Editor's Note: This column is co-written by Ken Blackwell and Sandy Froman

“Rights [are] antecedent to all earthly government …” John Adams

As a historic Supreme Court case on the Second Amendment looms, District of Columbia v. Heller, two unexpected perspectives show what is at stake in this case for all Americans.

Between the two of us as authors, our commitment to the Second Amendment, coupled with our real-life experiences, explodes the stereotypical images of gun owners in America. We are living proof that the Second Amendment is a blessing for all Americans, and that all Americans have a vested interest in the pending court case.

What would compel a petite Jewish woman born in San Francisco and educated at Stanford University and Harvard Law School to buy a pistol and end up as the president of the National Rifle Association?

Growing up in the Froman family in the California Bay Area in the 1950s was idyllic. No one in my family owned guns. We didn’t even hunt or shoot. While real guns weren’t part of my life, “reel” guns were. Television Westerns like “Have Gun Will Travel” and of course, the “Rifleman,” were a type of morality plays — good guys and bad guys both used guns except the bad guys used guns to hurt and threaten people while the good guys used guns to protect and defend themselves. That lesson was never forgotten.

Thirty years later, as a young lawyer in Los Angeles, my gun awakening came in the form of terror when someone tried to break into my house in the middle of the night. Unable to defend myself, it suddenly became very clear that the person responsible for protecting my life and safety was me.

I refused to be a helpless victim. It was time to buy a gun and learn how to use it. Later when I joined the NRA and began receiving their flagship publication, the American Rifleman, I knew that Chuck Connors was right. Guns in the hands of good people save lives.

Growing up in the Blackwell household in the central city neighborhoods of Cincinnati informed my public policy work as mayor of the Queen City and as an undersecretary at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Families like mine — low income, civically engaged, and responsible — expected access to firearms for safety. Then, as now, criminals were not inclined to break into a house where the owner was armed.

Things were tougher in the South where the Deacons of Defense, most of whom were veterans like my father, chased away KKK riders and thugs. These groups of armed men patrolled their neighborhoods to keep them safe at night. Whether it’s an individual or a family who has to fight against random criminals or organized threats, our lives are evidence that Americans, particularly women and minorities in today’s urban areas, need our Second Amendment rights.

***

The Supreme Court has never settled the controversy at the heart of the great American gun debate: Whether individual citizens have a constitutional right to possess private firearms. Now the High Court has agreed to answer this question, in what will most likely be a 5-4 decision that could go either way.

This month the U.S. Supreme Court will hear arguments in District of Columbia v. Heller. It is the first ever Supreme Court case that has the promise of finally answering the question of what the Second Amendment means. Assuming that the Court does not dismiss the case on some technicality, Heller could become the definitive standard for gun rights in America.

The Second Amendment says, “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” The Heller case will decide whether the right to keep and bear arms refers to private, law-abiding citizens, or whether it is a right of the people “collectively” to have guns in the National Guard or other state militia units.

The facts of District of Columbia v. Heller make this a perfect test case. In the District of Columbia, it’s a crime to have any sort of readily-usable firearm. It’s illegal to have any sort of handgun — even a broken handgun — in your home. Having a long gun (rifle or shotgun) in your home is a crime unless the gun is unloaded and either disassembled or disabled by a trigger lock, with ammunition stored in a separate container. If someone breaks into your home, you have no time to have a functional firearm that is ready to defend your life or your family. The D.C. gun ban is considered the most severe gun control law in America.

Several citizens and lawyers brought the suit Parker v. District of Columbia to U.S. District Court to challenge this law. The federal trial court dismissed the case, stating that there is no right to own a gun. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit reversed the decision, holding that the Second Amendment guarantees an individual’s right to keep and bear arms, and therefore holding the D.C. gun ban unconstitutional. The Supreme Court has taken the case, renamed District of Columbia v. Heller because Dick Heller was the only plaintiff found to have the standing to sue.

***

The issue in Heller is simple. The issue — or “question presented” — is whether the D.C. gun ban violates the Second Amendment right of individual citizens not connected with any state-sponsored militia to have guns in their home for private use.

The answer to the question presented is simple as well. But people reach opposite answers to this simple issue. Most people say the answer is “yes.” The Second Amendment is in the Bill of Rights, of which every other part — freedom of speech, religion, right to a jury trial, etc. — applies to individuals acting as private citizens.

The Second Amendment refers to “the right of the people.” The Founding Fathers were concerned about self-defense, the ability to defend your own property, and ensuring that the people had the means to throw off a tyrannical government, such as the one they had just escaped in Great Britain.

But others answer this simple question with a “no.” The framers did not want a standing army in peacetime. Some claim that the clause referring to a “militia” means that the framers were solely concerned about states being able to raise a military, and that this is the only “right” conferred by the Second Amendment. Thus, they conclude, the right can only be exercised in conjunction with service in this state-sponsored militia.

The reason people come to opposite conclusions for this simple question stems from different approaches to interpreting the Constitution, the issues that are implicated in this case, and different philosophies about government — self-reliance versus reliance upon government.

There are two different ways of reading the Constitution — sometimes described as “strict constructionism” versus the “Living Constitution.” Strict constructionism (the actual legal terms are “originalism” or “textualism”) requires judges to adhere to the words of the Constitution. A “Living Constitution” means that judges are free to interpret the meaning of the Constitution to make it conform to modern social trends.

Under the conservative approach there is no doubt the Second Amendment is an individual right, while under the “Living Constitution” a judge can simply say that modern society has evolved beyond the need for individual gun ownership.

Judge Alex Kozinski of the Ninth Circuit stated in Silviera v. Lockyer that “tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people.” Calling the Second Amendment a “doomsday provision,” Judge Kozinski warned that assuming you can never lose your freedom “is a mistake a free people get to make only once.” Those were the framers’ concerns when they wrote and ratified the Bill of Rights.

This is part I of a two part series. Part II will appear next Thursday.

Ms. Froman is the immediate past president of the National Rifle Association of America and a practicing attorney in Tucson, Arizona. Mr. Blackwell is the former mayor of Cincinnati and a fellow at the American Civil Rights Union.

http://www.townhall.com/Common/Print.aspx For the Compulsive.
 
Calling the Second Amendment a “doomsday provision,” Judge Kozinski warned that assuming you can never lose your freedom “is a mistake a free people get to make only once.”

I'm afraid a great many people consider individual freedom too burdensome and insufficiently entertaining.
 
Under the conservative approach there is no doubt the Second Amendment is an individual right, while under the “Living Constitution” a judge can simply say that modern society has evolved beyond the need for individual gun ownership.

Where did this "living document" crap originate?


I'm afraid a great many people consider individual freedom too burdensome and insufficiently entertaining.

don't forget scary and unnecessary. As long as the ipod is charged, and the Starbucks is hot, what di I need individual freedom for?...
 
Inalienable. Period.

It doesn't come from the Constitution. It comes from being a human being. SCOTUS could revoke it, Congress could repeal it, and it would still be a right. They, OTOH, would become criminal overlords.
 
It comes from being a human being

Gun Rights? Rights of Life and Liberty sure, but gun rights?

Right to self-defense, but the right to bear arms? So people had gun rights before there were guns?

If if was the framers of the Constitution wouldn't have had to include it. I support the 2nd Amendment and RKBA but it's more than foolish to think the right to own/carry a gun is a god given right.

In fact the framers weren't concerned even about individual self-defense, but were taking care of the citizens against an oppressive government.

Neither the SCOTUS or Congress or the president could ever overturn it. It would take a vote by the people.

Flame me if you want, but recognize it for what it really is. The only way we're going to continue to have this Constutional right is to see it for what it is, and defend it in court and in political elections.
 
Do I have a right to life?

Do I have a right to defend it against unlawful force?

Should I not have the same means to do so available to me as are available to those who would do me harm?


I've yet to see anyone answer no to any of these questions without resorting to BS collectivist "for the common good" arguments that have been proven to be baseless in every state where carry permits are issued on a "want" rather than a "need" basis.
 
Where did this "living document" crap originate?

Not to start a fight, because I agree with you, but I think the notion is that amendments added modify or change the original core of the constitution make it metamorphic, or live, in nature. Any right that is bestowed can be taken away.

Also, any contract, constitution, by-laws, or document that is subject to court interpretation can be suggested to have the same experential kind of "living" quality to it.

I guess the traditional terms used were "strict constructionist" vs. "loose constructionist". That is, if I recall my high school civics correctly.
 
Ignorance is Bliss

highorder said:
Where did this "living document" crap originate?
GhostlyKarliion said:
A jackass thought it up

(sorry, I had to, and no, I'm not cussing)

"The Constitution belongs to the living and not to the dead." - Thomas Jefferson

This effectively means you only get the right so far as you wish to fight for it: in the political arena, in argumentation, courts, battlefields, et cetera.

Yeah, it was some 'jackass' alright. :rolleyes:
 
Do I have a right to life?

Do I have a right to defend it against unlawful force?

Should I not have the same means to do so available to me as are available to those who would do me harm?

There is a difference between saying you have the right to defend yourself and saying you have the right to own a gun to defend yourself. Lets use an extreme example.

The terrorists used a jet liner against Americans on 9/11. So therefore, by your logic, you have the god given right to own and operate a 747! Or how about the posion gas used in the Japanese subways? People have the right to own poison gas since it has been used against them!

Silly examples I know. But its the same point you're making. How about torture? Shouldn't you be safe from the cops/government being able to torture a confession out of you? But its a matter of law that they don't. What about religion? Shouldn't you be able to choose what God you worship, or to not worship at all? But its in the Constitution.

I fully support your right to defend yourself, and recognize the best way to do it these days is with a firearm. But firearm ownership is still not a god given right. Go to other countries and what rights they expect (not what they have, but what they expect to have) is very different from the US.

And maybe that's more to my point. We expect things as a "right", but if we looked at them (correctly) as priveledges, we'd be protecting them more, and fighting for them more.
 
In fact the framers weren't concerned even about individual self-defense, but were taking care of the citizens against an oppressive government.

No they weren't. They were talking about the security of a free state. An armed populace is the only thing that can even begin to secure a free state. See Colombine or September 11 for instance for examples. Neither the police nor the military can do a thing in the world about that kind of stuff because they simply cannot be everywhere all the time and if they were you'd hate it because that is what is called a police state or dictatorship and they never work out well. New Life Church and Jeannie Assam are great examples of how only armed citizens can realistically secure a free state.

Our government is broken, corrupt and operates far outside the law. Part of this has come to mean that the militia is no longer allowed to do its job, at least not very easily. As a consequence society suffers because there is nobody else capable of doing the job. The money and manpower just isn't there and never can be. What we can do is get our concealed weapons license and carry a pistol to smite evil as evil presents itself to be smote. If somebody starts shooting up a public place do an Assam. That is what the second ammendment is about. Oppressive government is only one particular possible case where armed citizens might be required to secure a free state and that's only under an extremely dire scenario.

RKBA provides for effective security all out of porportion to its cost without resorting to a police state.
 
There is a difference between saying you have the right to defend yourself and saying you have the right to own a gun to defend yourself. Lets use an extreme example.

BZZZT! Wrong answer! What you're saying is equivalent to saying that the right to freedom of speech doesn't exist for those who use the Internet because the framers didn't know about the Internet. Or radio, TV, etc. Try getting a reporter to say that freedom of the press doesn't include broadcast TV. That dog don't hunt. Never has, never will.

You have the right to defend your life. Guns exist. Guns may be used to take your life. You have the right to own a gun to defend your life. If it were swords, then we'd be talking about swords, but whatever the means, there is no inherent principle of the universe or physical law that says you have to fight fair when fighting for your life. If a gun is the most efficient and convenient means for you to defend yourself, then you have a right to own one.
 
That actually goes along very well with the objections about poison gas and nuclear weapons. You have a right to use lethal force to defend your life. You do not have a right to kill innocents. Poison gas and nuclear bombs are not conducive to defending yourself without killing large numbers of innocents. That doesn't automatically imply banning nuclear weapons or whatever other ridiculous thing we're talking about but it does mean that if you try to use the nuke on the subway against the attacker you are not defending yourself you're commiting mass murder. See how it is self limiting?

And yes, you have a right to operate a 747 or any other vehicle. Now can you

A: afford to own or rent one?

B: do you know how to operate one?

Oh golly gee look at that, self limiting again.
 
Not to start a fight, because I agree with you, but I think the notion is that amendments added modify or change the original core of the constitution make it metamorphic, or live, in nature. Any right that is bestowed can be taken away.

There are no bestowed rights. Rights preexist the government. The Constitution simply protects those rights by restricting government. This is exactly why the 2nd says "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

As for your attempt at explaining where people are getting the "living constitution" idea from, perhaps you are right, but that is faulty logic on their part. Simply being able to amend something doesn't mean that the meanings of its provisions change too.
 
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I can't believe the founding fathers did NOT have self-defense in mind among the other things with RKBA. There were Indians and a lot more wild animals back then with little to no protection from any authorities. Even though it was wrong, there were slaves that had to be kept in check as well.
 
I believe the "living document" business with the constitution is nothing more than misuse of a term to justify misuse of the constitution. The concept of a living document, a document that is under continual revision, is quite old I believe. The amendment process makes the constitution a living document. Someone will have to look up the etymology of that to place it. The concept of the living constitution seems to be different and doesn't just refer to the non-static nature of the document but implies some sort of philosophical interpretation of it instead of it taking the words exactly how they are written. That is the real danger. None of us read a contract and consider interpretation or modern social values. We read the contract as a legal document. What it says is what it means and what we will be held to. The constitution is a legal document no different than those. It is a living document that can be amended and changed via a clearly specified profess, not freely ruled on by judges against current societal values.
 
The BOR

is not a recognition of, or a granting of, any rights. It is a declaration that the government SHALL NOT infringe on those rights. They put it in because gov't has a history of infringing. It is a list of specific rights which are ours by virtue of our humanity, ending with Amdts IX and X to say that anything they left out is still a right of the people.

BTW it doesn't say "keep and bear spears" or "keep and bear guns", but "keep and bear ARMS". It meant whatever weapon was current. Today firearms, tomorrow ray-guns.
 
Good point, Khornet. Nice to see they had the foresight to realize technology would advance and they used "arms" as they had no idea what would be invented in the future. When it gets to the point, I want my own Terminator, too. A Cameron/Summer Glau model will do quite nicely. :evil:
 
DragonFire said:
Gun Rights? Rights of Life and Liberty sure, but gun rights?

Guns don’t have rights. People have rights.

Natural rights, which include the right to arms, are inalienable because they require no one’s permission to exercise.

~G. Fink
 
You do not have a right to kill innocents. Poison gas and nuclear bombs are not conducive to defending yourself without killing large numbers of innocents.

Funny that's what the anti's say about guns. It's either a right or it isn't. (which is an argument alot of the pro-RKBA use).

You say they can't be used without harming innocents. So you decide what my "right to life, and self-defence" means? I thought you were arguing FOR a right is a right is a right? So you support that we don't have a right to machine guns or hicap magazines, or assault weapons? Those are all likely to harm more innocent people if I try to defend myself with them.


you're saying is equivalent to saying that the right to freedom of speech doesn't exist for those who use the Internet

No, because the internet is a form of speech, but you don't have a 'right' to access the internet. Nor can you just start a TV station without licenses and government supervision. Speech is a right, internet and TV are priveledges.

BTW: the framers knew about guns. They were fighting a war using them at the time.

I can't believe the founding fathers did NOT have self-defense in mind

EXACTLY. The right to self-defense was unquestioned. It was the "right" to question/abolish the government authority that they were trying to protect.
 
Isn't the term "the people" in the 2nd amendment the same as "the people" in the other 4 amendments? This is the only country that I know of and I may be wrong that was founded upon individual freedoms.
 
Funny that's what the anti's say about guns. It's either a right or it isn't. (which is an argument alot of the pro-RKBA use).

You say they can't be used without harming innocents. So you decide what my "right to life, and self-defence" means? I thought you were arguing FOR a right is a right is a right? So you support that we don't have a right to machine guns or hicap magazines, or assault weapons? Those are all likely to harm more innocent people if I try to defend myself with them.

You've argued yourself into a corner and are now just dragging it out to no good end. Nukes and poison gas are are of effect weapons. Unless you're going to magically transport your attacker to the middle of some isolated desert there is no possible way to deploy an area of effect weapon against a point target without massive collateral dammage.

Handguns like most other guns are designed to engage point targets. Quality hollow points are specifically designed to not overpenetrate that point target. All sorts of guns are perfectly suitable to self defense because they do not inherently kill lots of other people when used for self defense. Weapons of mass destruction by design do. Capacity and cosmetic features have no bearing whatsoever on the likelihood of a particular firearm harming innocents.

The antis can say anything they want to but that doesn't change the fact that some weapons are area of effect in nature and some are point target in nature. Some are suitable to forms of self defense that don't make you a mass murderer, some are not.
 
I can't believe the founding fathers did NOT have self-defense in mind among the other things with RKBA. There were Indians and a lot more wild animals back then with little to no protection from any authorities.

My only quibble with the great men who wrote our Constitution and BoR etc. are that they had to much common sense and gave those of us here in the future to much credit and assumed that we would have it too! 1st of all if you read the writings of Jefferson, Franklin, and the rest you will see that they comment frequently about the importance of arms to protect oneself and ones family from ALL dangers. They spelled out the fact that we should be able to protect ourselves from the government, but they felt that anyone with any sense would understand the inherent right to protect ourselves in normal everyday personal protection.
 
True. I pretty much only think about my firearms for my self-defense. Even though I know they put it there for defense against a tyrannical government, I don't believe we, as a people, can win that fight. Especially with inferior weapons against what they could yield on me. :eek: Call me a wuss as I don't care. That's just how I see it.

Now, obligatory Red Dawn reference in 3.....2....1....
 
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