Just had a shoplifter in my store.

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Petty theft is no reason to use a handgun...but the shoplifter could have escalated the situation easily.
In which case, he'd be unable to defend himself well because he's not permitted to carry a handgun at his age.
 
The handgun age limit in NC is 21. I can't just greet people at the door with a 12 gauge. That's one of the reasons I want to move to Wyoming. They have practicly no gun laws. It wasn't my idea to let him go. That was my dad's. I was watching the other 2.
 
Software not Hardware.

I strongly suggest, getting hard copies of State Statues , and taking a real good hard look at the use of lethal force, definitions of shoplifting, false arrest... taking a training class, sitting in on some Criminal Justice Classes,attending some jury trials, asking a seasoned LEO , seasoned Retired LEO, seasoned Insurance Investigator...to do a walk thru and make determinations of weak , vulnerable security and how to be less Vulnerable.

Have and use code and passwords.

I know a LOT about this.
If an employee mentioned in a calm, controlled tone, the vet called to say my cat was fine - all hell might be about to break loose. I do not have a cat, I hate cats.

If someone "yelled" - it meant they busted the coffee pot in the sink, got mustard on a silk blouse or me cussing because I was pissed at some Political Idiot heard on the news - or Pissed the Damn Delivery Folks screwed up royally.

Calm, cool, "phrases, passwords, codewords" used when serious matters needed to be addressed.

"Oh phooey!" is what my elder saleslady / bookeep helper said, in a normal tone of voice when she caught the trash can on fire ( her job to do B-day candles) ...just sat in the sink and used a sprayer extension to put it out. Asked why she didn't use the little fire extinguisher " damn things get crap everywhere, not to mention $8.99 plus tax...I'd rather use that money for you to buy me lunch". [she meant it too]

When I was married and had a stepson. If the calm mention of my daughter called from school - All eyes up front and all employees took the actions we had practiced over and over and over again.

If that light fixture went out up front and in view of everyone - it was supposed to - it signaled a problem. Again pre-planned actions went into play.

If another light came ON up front / elsewheres- it meant the business guy next door had a situation and we were to cover his six, call LEO on direct line and do whatever we could to help, observe and to watch our business in case this was a diversion.

If I mentioned in calm casual voice " How is the wife/ hubby doing" - that told the widow/ widower to proceed with our pre- planned trained repsonses.

We also had methods to inform others not in view of front. Like the business next door ...reciprocal is good.

What if the 'shoplifter' was actually a decoy? I mean his "role" was get attention, maybe even put back the noise filter, and run. One of you chases him, leaving less folks to watch store. Now the armed BGS have everyone in a bunch, and under their control.

Oh yeah, I studied this real hard.

I was born into this 'world' . We did not have 911. We had black rotary phones. Ask me about hiding in the broom closet and calling the Local cops on direct line at age 8. Yeah, we had a hardwired phone in a closet. My job was to hide and call.

Didn't have CCW permits. I damn sure had a loaded Model 10 in my workbench at age 13, the pump shotgun behind the doors I had trained with as well...it was kid sized for a reason. I hear a shot up front, I hit the deck, get below the concrete and steel cover built into the "shop" and I did not come out until the code words for all clear were given. Another hidden hardwired rotary phone(s) with an unlisted number were in "unique" places.

Check the stats for yelling "shoplifter" and the person has NO stolen good on his person.

Ask me about someone that sweated whom called a person a shoplifter. Seasoned LEO, detective showed up as asked. Professional Shoplifter did NOT have the Mdse. The Mdse was gone. Seasoned detective knew how to listen to not what said, but read a person and read body language.

--

Difference in Wannabe's and Pros. True Case.

Professional Shoplifters.

Lady came in and wanted to look at Loose diamonds with her son - he was getting engaged. Attractive lady, dressed in very expensive clothes, wearing expensive Jlry. She produced a picture of a mounting , while the 2ct diamonds were on the desk, "oops" she spilled her lipstick and it rolled under the desk. She pawned a 2 ct diamond when the Jeweler bend down to retrieve the lipstick.

Diamond is missing, where is it? Where did it go? Only 3 persons in that private showing room.

Husband was late " caught in traffic" and was eating a apple. Lady greets husband, son is asked to "stay seated" - that dia is still missing, must be the kid - right? Wrong, he did not have it.

Husband calls the "family attorney" he is "outraged". He has that apple, a few bites were out when he entered, wifey fussed about being so "tacky" - he replies he missed lunch...
Husband declined to toss apple into trash can when small trash can is offered. !!Click!!

Seasoned Detective, called upon request of Jlr, other officers watching the outside...might be a diversion for folks next door...
Seasoned Detective - "Sir, since you and your family are waiting for your attorney, and since you claim innocence...please toss the apple. He finally tossed the apple. Very neatly a hole and plug in that apple...2ct dia in that apple. The Jlr got his diamond back and not charged with false arrest. It was close though, so very very close.



---

They can have any damn thing in the store, that is what insurance is for. Now hurt one of the employees, produce any weapon with intent to hurt an employee, attempt to take them as hostage...nobody was gonna be a hostage. Nobody, especially one of the younger ladies was going to a back room with a BG(s) alone and get raped. They set a trash can on fire to distract.. Their ass is mine, or ours. Legal Definitions gave me the right to prevent a felony. Desparity gave me rights as well.

There is more to responsible firearm ownership than firearms.
 
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Then I could post a sign on the door saying "This store is protected from thieves & killers by 3 Colt 1911 .45 caliber handguns. You feeling lucky?"
yeah, those pesky laws prohibiting the posting of signs unless you're 21 or older are a royal pain!
 
IN TN someone under 21 can carry a sidearm on private property if they wish. Being family owned, you may consider that.
 
V4Vendetta said:
Alright, I won't post the sign. It's not a Katrina victim. You can't eat a noise filter. Any of you got any tips for dealing with shoplifters?

Yes. Invest in timelapse recorders and cameras. Turn it over to the police, make it their job to find the punk. If you're selling really valuable merchandise, like jewelry, invest in a remotely lockeable door and silent alarm, they can bang their head on it till the cops pull up.

Don't be irresponsible with firearms, it gives the powers that be excuses to take them away from the rest of us.
 
MICHAEL T said:
You caught a shoplifter and let him go. Why? To my way of thinking he should have been turned over to police along with his friends. They could sort out and charge. The way you slow the problem down is have them arrested. Word will get out now. Hey! if were caught he will let us go and no police Good luck
+1, the worthless little bastards will just steal from someone else. Charge 'em, prosecute 'em, and if the happen to have a known mom and/or dad then drag their ragged a**es into it also on a charge of failing to properly supervise junior or whatever works in NC.
 
Manedwolf said:
Yes. Invest in timelapse recorders and cameras. Turn it over to the police, make it their job to find the punk. If you're selling really valuable merchandise, like jewelry, invest in a remotely lockeable door and silent alarm, they can bang their head on it till the cops pull up.

Don't be irresponsible with firearms, it gives the powers that be excuses to take them away from the rest of us.


I've noticed that a lot of you folks talk about the goverment regulating what you can own. THAT'S JUST WHAT THE SECOND AMMENDMENT WAS MADE FOR!!!!! THEY TELL YOU YOU CAN'T OWN A GUN, FIGHT!!!

Just my .02.
 
Moderator time. Enough cracks about his age folks. I've heard far stupider things from some of you old enough to be his grandfather.
 
However, until the Supreme Court overturns all gun control laws, we still have to follow them or end up in prison.

Discretion is the better part of valor here. Pick your battles.

Tom
 
I believe there is a way to legally carry in NC by getting a few out of state permits to carry and a pistol from someone over 21.
 
V4Vendetta said:
I wasn't going to shoot him. I was bluffing. I figure the sign would scare off 2 bit shoplifters. Armed bandits, I would have shot.

NEVER EVER bluff when it comes to firearms. NEVER aim a loaded gun at anything you dont intend to destroy. NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER point an unloaded gun at someone in a bluff. The purpose of a self defense gun is to stop a serious threat. If there is no such threat, the firearm stays behind the counter/in the holster etc. If this thief did have a gun you don't just pull yours out and put it to the back of his head like some cheesy movie. You gotta be ready to fire your weapon if you draw, no stand-offs or dramatic dialouge, just lead, going really fast. Sounds to me like your too immature to own a gun.

Sorry mods for such a direct negative remark. Also, this isn't an age related comment either... I'm only 19...

-Dev
 
U will always have shoplifters. Best thing U can do is if you see someone you suspect, stick to them like glue and keep trying to "help" them.

And, U will always have idiots who do it no matter how many cameras. I have had idiots see the little camera speed dome watching them - they waived at several, and then stole. I've even caught the same person 2 and 3 times before, despite them knowing we had a ton of cameras sharp enough to read a price tag
 
I figure the sign would scare off 2 bit shoplifters.

I have a hunch it will amount to an incentive for the thrill-seeking shop lifters, especially the young, inexperienced kind.

I concur that shop lifters should always be stopped and turned over to the police. Embarrassment doesn't stop them. Jail often doesn't stop them, either, but does stop some of them.

Every employee should be armed in case confronting a shop lifter turns into an armed confrontation.
 
I feel your frustration, but shoplifting is a petty offense, first time offenders would only get a slap on the wrist. Just remember, a gun is a last resort to save a life.
 
Hmmm - +1 on what sm said.

+1 on what Michalr T said. Jack 'em up proper, protect your business. Assuming you have reason enough to call the cops, you likely have a low risk of getting sued for false arrest. Even if they aren't charged, word gets around.

Move your business to Wyoming? Because they have liberal gun laws? There's a marketing strategy for ya?:confused:

+1 on what DevLcL bluffing can:
- get you killed
- get your donkey kicked
- get you sued
- cause you to lose any hope of owning firearms
- get you branded as a female kittycat
Never, ever, make a threat you aren't prepared to back up.

While I thoroughly understand your desire to protect your parents and your livelihood, you need to do some real studying of NC firearm laws (you may well be able to be armed in your place of business -), what consititutes legitimate use of lethal force, and regardlesss of your age, GROW UP!
 
I agree that the handgun age should be the same as rifles, but maybe a sign stating "By Appointment Only" would be more effective than the "We have three .45s..." It'll certainly keep undesireables out. :p

Question though. How is protecting a business from theft any different from protecting a residence from theft?
 
Just had a shoplifter in my store.

This is a prime example of why we need the handgun age limit lowered to 18. I was helping my dad cut some wire for a customer when my mom called out for my dad. He could tell by her voice that something wasn't right. He ran out to her & caught a 20 something kid stealing a $8.00 noise filter. He said he was trying to see if it would work on his truck. Yeah right. And I'm the guy who invented Pepsi. We got the filter back my dad told him not to come in our store again. He had 2 friends inside that I was watching meanwhile in case they were in on it. They said they didn't know anything, so we let them go. Ever since we opened this store I've been training & practicing for these situations. My mom knew what to do because I told her what area to watch for shoplifters. To you all out there, KEEP A SHARP EYE!
You make a pretty good argument for the side that wants to keep firearms out of the hands of 18 year olds. There was no need for you to yuse a firearm in this situation. Of course having one ready would be nice, but you could have had a shotgun or rifle at the ready in the store. If you think you needed one (any firearm):rolleyes: for the situation as you described it, PLEASEEEEEEE take a use of force course.
 
:D








For all those who whine about how he's too young, read sm's post.
Didn't have CCW permits. I damn sure had a loaded Model 10 in my workbench at age 13, the pump shotgun behind the doors I had trained with as well...it was kid sized for a reason.
It ain't the years... it's the mileage. I can name a dozen guys over 40 I wouldn't trust with a cigarette lighter.
 
V4V:

I am sure you are a great guy working with your folks in your family business and all and this is not meant to offend but in my opinion 18yr olds are not mature enough to carry a CCW (hell alot of 21-99 are not qualified or ready physically, emotionally, and spiritually to carry a CCW). Stand back from the emotion of the moment and think about pulling the trigger to end someones life. Before ever actually gripping a gun in self defense you need to first think about 1. legal issues (if you are justified Criminal and Civil) , 2. Whether you are actually prepared to take another life. If your dad feels as strongly as you do have him teach you and prepare you for the day you qualify with your states laws get some professional training, and get a CCW.

You have to check your local laws but most places you dont even need a CCW if it is your own business.

Oh and next time instead of just asking the poor little bad guy not to come back CALL THE POLICE;)
 
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