Just had a shoplifter in my store.

[Lupinus]

If your parents own the store odds are you can carry if they give consent, check with NC law to check but far as I know you should be able to.

That said for the gun an bluffing. You NEVER bluff with a gun, you point a gun at someone who you don't have a reasonable expectation to be a threat you could be getting charged with brandishing and probably a host of other violations depending how anal the prosecutor is. A guy in broad day light whom you confront about shoplifting doesn't have the reasonable expectation of a threat unlike a gun rummaging through your stuff at three in the morning waking you out of a dead sleep. Now having a gun on you is fine and a damn good idea. But bluffing with a gun is always a serious no no. When you point a gun at someone it should be when they are a threat and you need to protect yourself. Even lifting your shirt to point out the fact you are armed is a bad idea. You don't have to shoot someone 100% of the time you point a gun at them, but you really need to reserve pulling a gun for serious threats, not just confronting a little punk who shoplifted an eight dollar whetchamacalit.

Get cameras, post a sign that the store is under 24 hour surveillance, and as far as a protected by firearms sign I would advise against it for two reasons. Reason one being it is bad for business, unless you own a gun shop where presumably everyone in your customer pool isn't bothered by guns even if you drive one customer a week away that one customer may have been coming in to dump a few hundred bucks into your register. Second reason it removes your advantage of surprise the same way open carry does as opposed to open carry. The less thieves know to prepare themselves for before robbing you the better for you. They read that they might just go get a gun and come back and rob you, not just shoplift.

 

[Phyphor]

Then I could post a sign on the door saying "This store is protected from thieves & killers by 3 Colt 1911 .45 caliber handguns. You feeling lucky?"

You do that, you might as well add "...be sure to bring shotguns and shoot up the place upon entry. "

Basically, you don't want to announce that you're armed to the BGs, especially if they're just shoplifters.

Anyone more serious than a shoplifter should find out that you're armed only when you blow them away.

 

[Black Majik]

This is a prime example of why we need the handgun age limit lowered to 18...... He ran out to her & caught a 20 something kid stealing a $8.00 noise filter.

If the handgun age was lowered to 18, that means that 20 year old would be packing also. Does that sound like a good idea to you?

 

[one45auto]

You don't need a handgun, you need a nightstick. If they resist detention or turn violent, just give em' the old wooden shampoo. Non-lethal, but persuasive.

 

[thatguy]

You want to shoot petty criminals but legally you can't. Maybe morally you can't, too, but that issue is debatable as far as I'm concerned.

I recall back around 1971 when I was working the graveyard shift in a 7-11 store while going to school. About 3am some jerk came in and grabbed a big armload of beer. I tried to stop him because beer sales stopped at 2am by law but he just brushed past me and out the door. So I followed.

Outside I saw a sedan waiting for him with the engine running and the rear door standing open. This was a planned heist. The shoplifter had three accomplices in the car. Seeing it was now four to one I pulled my 1911 Colt out from under my shirt in case any were armed or if they all tried to jump me.

Good reason holds that you just let these guys walk rather than confront them but I was never blessed with good reason when it comes to criminals. I hate crooks. I have absolutely no use for thieves and feel they should be killed on sight. Just as the moron with the beer starts to get into the car I crank off a round into the air.

It's amazing how loud a .45ACP sounds at 3am.

No doubt firing even a warning shot was illegal and some would say foolish but like I said earlier I have a bad habit of going after criminals when the law and common sense say it's not the best idea. This wasn't the only time I went after criminals contrary to good thinking but those are other stories.

At the shot the driver floored the gas pedal and the car took off, spinning its rear tires in the loose gravel. The thief, who was half in the car, was spun to the ground spilling most of the stolen beer. I only wish the car had run him over. He jumped up and ran after the departing car faster than I have ever seen anyone run. I think he managed to hold onto one of the five six-packs he had stolen. I picked up the rest and returned the bottles to the shelf.

The guy ran down a gravel road chasing his brave buddies who obviously were very concerned about his well-being as they abandoned him like the craven cowards they were. He was barefoot, by the way, and I still chuckle at the tought of how badly he must have torn up his feet running for his life.

I enjoy this thought almost as much as I would have enjoyed putting a bullet into the bastard's back.

 

[m39fan]

I think you'd better forget about the sign and better yet, both. It doesn't sound like you are ready for a handgun yet. Some maturing and training seem to be needed. If you do confront a shoplifter (shoplifting is normally a MISDEMEANOR) with a drawn pistol and he turns out to be unarmed, you WILL go to jail and have your carry privilages revoked. Even just flashing it (brandishing) will ensure you lose your permit and likely will face charges. IF he IS armed you might find yourself (or mom or dad) dead over a $9.00 item.

As to the sign, if you were to ever NEED to use a gun in self-defense, the sign will ensure that you WILL end up in court presented as a deranged killer just waiting to drop a hammer on someone.

Just my .02 from a LEO viewpoint.

 

[Manedwolf]

NEVER EVER bluff when it comes to firearms. NEVER aim a loaded gun at anything you dont intend to destroy. NEVER NEVER NEVER EVER point an unloaded gun at someone in a bluff. The purpose of a self defense gun is to stop a serious threat. If there is no such threat, the firearm stays behind the counter/in the holster etc. If this thief did have a gun you don't just pull yours out and put it to the back of his head like some cheesy movie. You gotta be ready to fire your weapon if you draw, no stand-offs or dramatic dialouge, just lead, going really fast. Sounds to me like your too immature to own a gun.

Sorry mods for such a direct negative remark. Also, this isn't an age related comment either... I'm only 19...

-Dev

+1

 

[V4Vendetta]

I've heard a lot of mention of LEO's, so I'm going to ask. What are they? Also, I've decided not to post the sign. I've calmed down since yesterday. I was mad yesterday, so I ranted a little bit. I thank all of you for your thoughts even though some were more nicer than others. I was mad yesterday because I get up at 8:00am every day of the week to get to my store & have it open by 9:00am. I do not get a day off except when the store is closed for the holidays, so I'm at the store 360. I don't get paid. What we make goes back into the shop for supplies & such. And now some young punk wants to rob me!!! I'm sure you understand my frustration. Thanks for allowing me to rant.

 

[Lupinus]

Part of being responsible enough to carry a gun is being able to keep your cool and not being ready to pull a gun and blow someone head off over a nine dollar item unless you confront him and he attacks you. So is knowing you don't bluff with the weapon even if you're mad. Anger is fine, it is a perfectly natural human emotion. But keeping it in check is the key...even if you are tempted to do some of the things you really can't. Guns are for saving your life, not displaying your anger.

LEO refers to the cops, the guys in blue, law enforcment officers, gestapo....etc.

 

[Cousin Mike]

I worked at a bookstore once, and you'd be surprised how many people try to steal from bookstores. On more than one occasion I had to deal with a shoplifter, and I never had to pull a gun - even in some pretty vicious fights. Only once did I go for my gun, and did not have to pull it. 2 guys came in and stole from us, and one got away and ran up the street. I was threatened by the other shoplifter who made it to his car - when myself and a co-worker followed him, he threatened to get a gun from his car and shoot both of us if we didnt back off. When he said that, myself and my security guard (both of us were armed) got our hands on our weapons, but we did not deploy them or point them. The guy got the point, and left. We called the police, and they were caught an hour later trying to steal from the same chain of bookstores on the other side of town.

Now let me be honest. I wanted to empty a whole magazine on him for threatening me like that. The anger was incredible, and some might even say I was justified because of the threat of being shot. Very serious words to me, I've lost 3 cousins and lots of friends to shootings. However, I did not see a gun. Had I shot that man, or even pointed my gun at him, and he ended up NOT having a gun, I'd be the one in prison today instead of this guy. Had he actually went for a gun, different story. When I rode with the police to identify them at the other store location, one of them told me he had just gotten out of prison for homicide a year earlier, but they found NO gun in the car. He was bluffing. However, we did the right thing, and the right people went to jail. I was 21 at the time.

Your job as a clerk in the family store is not to be a hero or anything like that, it's to put money in the register and make sure everyone goes home alive at the end of the day. Everyone here has already said it, but I will repeat it. Pointing a gun at someone is only for situations where you think you might be seriously hurt, or killed - if you let an argument over shoplifting or a fight in the store escalate into a shooting, it might very well be you who spends the rest of his life in prison. I would recommend the firearms courses everyone here has already recommended, but I would also like to recommend an unarmed SD course as well. Sounds like you could use the confidence to act rationally and appropriately in a situation where deadly force is not required, and I think a hand to hand defense course would help that as well. You don't want to go to jail, or have to live with killing someone over a paper funnel or whatever it was

 

[thumbody]

To those insulting V4, go back and read his first post. He never said he would have pulled a gun if he had 1. He said there were 3 young men in the store together and 1 of them had to be confronted.
If I had to confront someone who had 2 backups with them I would also want to have something to save my skin if things went bad.
To those commenting on his age if I were in trouble I would want my 15 yr old to be able to defend me and herself.
There are many stories of young children saving a family members life by using a gun. And a few sad tales of young adults who were killed along with younger siblings because the guns (that they knew how to use) were locked up(to conform with state law).
Why are so many members of this board so age discriminating? We have some young members on here who come across as much more mature and responsible than some members that claim to be much older.

 

[V4Vendetta]

Thumbody, THANK YOU!!

 

[cosine]

edited: deleted.

 

[mbs357]

He never said he would have pulled a gun if he had 1.

I noticed that too, I was wondering why everyone was going on about being bluffing with guns, etc.

 

[cosine]

I noticed that too, I was wondering why everyone was going on about being bluffing with guns, etc.

Good point. I think it's because everyone, (me included) assumed that that was what he wanted a gun for.

 

[Cousin Mike]

I wasn't going to shoot him. I was bluffing. I figure the sign would scare off 2 bit shoplifters. Armed bandits, I would have shot.

I think this is why...

I don't think anyone is being unjustly hard on anyone, minus the age-based attacks. This is a very serious subject, and I think everyone cares about the possible outcomes, that's all.

 

[V4Vendetta]

"This is a very serious subject, and I think everyone cares about the possible outcomes."

True.

 

[mbs357]

I think this is why...

I don't think anyone is being unjustly hard on anyone, minus the age-based attacks. This is a very serious subject, and I think everyone cares about the possible outcomes, that's all.

I must have missed that part.
Bluffing is bad. =X

 

[thumbody]

The only place I notice anything about bluffing was in regards to the sign. I also believe that sign is a bad idea(as bluffing with a gun would be also). You want the element of surprise on your side. The sign could also be used as evidence that you were trigger happy and just waiting for a chance to shoot someone.
When I was 18 I worked the 3 pm-11 shift at a gas station on the north end of Indianapolis,I usually had my shotgun stashed where I could get to it fast if I needed to. I don't know what the legalities were but even then I knew I was responsible for my own safety.
The station was only about 1/4-1/2 mile from the freeway and looked to be an easy target. I never needed it but there were a few times I moseyed towards it while my coworker waited on some funny acting customers.

 

[brassdog]

V4Vendetta,

Having workrd in small Mom&Pop stores in my distant past, I know how you feel. The best thing you can do and should do is to get the local police and your county deputies involved. The state of NC doesn't take kindly to lawbreakers of any kind. Which county do you live in? If your Dad owns the property outright then he can carry a concealed weapon on his property without a CCW. Now, just cause he can do it doesn't always mean the cops are going to understand that. That's why you need to get them involved. So you both can get familar with each other on sight and so they can point out your store's weak spots. Once addressed, you and your Dad should be hardening then and making several spots for cover. Also, you being under 21. I wouldn't recommend that you even think about carrying a handgun. Just keep it in a quick access lockbox someplace where your family knows where it is. For example, one place I worked at in Charlotte. The owners, 2 brothers, kept a loaded Taurus .40 in the beer cooler under the counter and pair of shotguns in the meatlocker.

 

[V4Vendetta]

Me & my dad don't own the land or building. We rent them from a guy that is like a father to my dad. They've known each other for at least 17 years. A couple of hours after my dad caught the thief, my dad talked to the guy we rent from about it. He said that when he had a shoplifter, even if it was a .25 item, he called the cops. My dad didn't listen to me when I told him that you can't hold somebody until the cops arrived under NC law. He didn't believe me. Well earlier today a cop came in who buys some radio parts from us. He told my dad the exact same thing. He said the best thing to do is get the plate # off their vehicle. We live in Stokes county but our store is in Forsyth county.

 

[ccw007]

My dad didn't listen to me when I told him that you can't hold somebody until the cops arrived under NC law. He didn't believe me. Well earlier today a cop came in who buys some radio parts from us. He told my dad the exact same thing. He said the best thing to do is get the plate # off their vehicle. We live in Stokes county but our store is in Forsyth county.

Well your dad and the cop are both right unless the law has changed since I had to last do it.
You can detain someone legally in NC, but it is very very tricky and can get you into trouble if you do something wrong. Department Stores do it all of the time.

It is best to get the plate number in my opinion because is a 9.00 item worth the legal hassle you may face for holding the person? Is a 9.00 item worth your life because they could be armed?

On a side note. I am posting this because of another thread you started and a few comments you have said in both places. Now I have not read this whole thread, but you live very close to me. Please learn the laws of this state on when you can and cannot use a firearm. To me you come across as a very hot tempered, to hell with the laws, type person, but you cannot really tell on these boards. I truly hope it is just because you are still young. However, if you act as you have posted in some of these threads I will be reading about you in the local paper. Take it for what it is worth my friend.

 

[GoBrush]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171602

Visit this thread it should give you other things to think about Like I said in my original post you need to be prepared physically, mentaly to make a decision like this.

 

[GoBrush]

"This is a very serious subject, and I think everyone cares about the possible outcomes."

True.

Looks like you are learning good for you. Keep learning Education is power.

 

[SR_]

Any of you got any tips for dealing with shoplifters?

When you catch one, call the cops. Don't let them go.