Just how carcinogenic is Hoppes #9?

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There is no benzene listed in the MSDS for Hoppes #9. It is not on the California Prop 65 list and is not even a suspected carcinogen.

I remember that Hoppes changed their formula some time ago. Lot's of people were upset about it. I suspect the elimination of the nitro-benzene from the formula was necessary to pass muster with the regulatory people. Still there are lots of us who have large supplies of the old stuff. I haven't bought any in ages (I use it sparingly when cleaning). When I get home, I'll check the label.
 
A few random chemistry comments

The sweet smell probably comes from the amyl acetate, which is an organic ester. Esters all are reasonably volatile and have sweet or fruity smells. You can tell esters by their two part name first part ending in -yl and second part ending in -ate. Read the label of anything with fruit flavoring and you'll see esters!

MSDSs are useful, but take them with an appropriate grain of sodium chloride. They were written by lawyers for regulators. Not by or for people using the chemicals. If you want to crack yourself up, look up the MSDS for water, sodium chloride (table salt), sodium hydrogen carbonate (baking soda) and silicon dioxide (sand).

The NIH has a nice database of useful info. http://www.niehs.nih.gov/odhsb/datasheets/home.htm Doesn't have everything, but a good place to look.
 
Extra Extra!

Hematopoietic System

Benzene primarily affects the CNS and the hematopoietic system.
Benzene exposure affects the CNS and hematopoietic system and may affect the immune system. Death due to acute benzene exposure has been attributed to asphyxiation, respiratory arrest, CNS depression, or cardiac dysrhythmia. Pathologic findings in fatal cases have included respiratory tract inflammation, lung hemorrhages, kidney congestion, and cerebral edema.


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Central Nervous System Effects

At very high concentrations, benzene rapidly causes CNS depression, which can lead to death.
Acute benzene exposure results in classic symptoms of CNS depression such as dizziness, ataxia, and confusion. These effects are believed to be caused by benzene itself rather than its metabolites, because the onset of CNS effects at extremely high doses is too rapid for metabolism to have occurred.


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Hematologic Effects

All three blood cell lines may be adversely affected by benzene.
Pluripotential stem cells and lymphocytic cells are the probable targets of benzene toxicity.
Benzene can cause dangerous hematologic toxicity such as anemia, leukopenia, thrombocytopenia, or pancytopenia after chronic exposure. These effects are believed to be caused by the metabolites of benzene, which most likely damage the DNA of the pluripotential stem cells. All of the blood's components (i.e., erythrocytes, leukocytes, and thrombocytes [platelets]) may be affected to varying degrees. The accelerated destruction or reduction in the number of all three major types of blood cells is termed pancytopenia. Potentially fatal infections can develop if granulocytopenia is present, and hemorrhage can occur as a result of thrombocytopenia. Paroxysmal nocturnal hemoglobinuria, a disorder in which the breakdown of the red blood cells is accelerated and results in bleeding into the urine during sleep when the condition is active, has been associated with benzene exposure. Cytogenetic abnormalities of bone marrow cells and circulating lymphocytes have been observed in workers exposed to benzene-abnormalities not unlike those observed after exposure to ionizing radiation. Myelodysplastic effects also can be seen in the bone marrow of persons chronically exposed to benzene.

Anemia

Benzene-induced aplastic anemia is caused by chronic exposure at relatively high levels.
Aplastic anemia is caused by bone marrow failure, resulting in hypoplasia with an inadequate number of all cell lines. Severe aplastic anemia typically has a poor prognosis and can progress to leukemia, whereas pancytopenia may be reversible. Benzene-induced aplastic anemia is generally caused by chronic exposure at relatively high doses. Fatal aplastic anemia following benzene exposure was first reported in workers in the nineteenth century.

Leukemia

Benzene-induced leukemia has a usual latency period of 5 to 15 years and, in many cases, is preceded by aplastic anemia.
Several agencies (e.g., the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency [EPA], and the International Agency for Research on Cancer) classify benzene as a confirmed human carcinogen. EPA estimates that a lifetime exposure to 4 ppb benzene in air will result in, at most, 1 additional case of leukemia in 10,000 people exposed. EPA has also estimated that lifetime exposure to a benzene concentration of 100 ppb in drinking water would correspond to, at most, 1 additional cancer case in 10,000 people exposed.

Cohort studies of benzene-exposed workers in several industries (e.g., sheet-rubber manufacturing, shoe manufacturing, and rotogravure [a special printing process]) have demonstrated significantly elevated risk of leukemia-predominantly acute myelogenous leukemia, but also erythroleukemia and acute myelomonocytic leukemia. The latency period for benzene-induced leukemia is typically 5 to 15 years after first exposure. Patients with benzene-induced aplastic anemia progress to a preleukemic phase and develop acute myelogenous leukemia. However, a person exposed to benzene may develop leukemia without having aplastic anemia.

Studies addressing the risk of leukemia associated with occupational exposures to low levels of benzene (less than approximately 1 ppm) have been inconclusive. Death certificates do not reveal increased leukemia mortality among workers potentially exposed to low levels of hydrocarbons and other petroleum products.

However, in recent case-control studies, significantly more patients with acute nonlymphocytic leukemia were employed as truck drivers, filling station attendants, or in jobs involving exposure to low levels of petroleum products than were the controls.


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Other Effects

There is insufficient evidence to indicate a causal relationship between benzene and nonhematologic tumors.
Benzene has not been shown to be teratogenic in humans.
Several reports relate benzene exposure to a variety of lymphatic tumors including non-Hodgkin lymphoma and multiple myeloma. Although this is plausible, there is no scientific proof of a causal relationship. The association between exposure to benzene and development of nonhematologic tumors remains inconclusive.

Information on the reproductive toxicity of benzene in humans is meager. Some effects on the testes have been noted in animals exposed via inhalation. Benzene has not been proven teratogenic in humans. In animals, high levels of benzene have resulted in decreased fetal weights and minor skeletal variants.


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And yotta yotta

Get all the info here:

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/HEC/CSEM/benzene/physiologic_effects.html
 
I wouldn't worry about it. Small, infrequent benzene exposures to healthy individuals aren't a cause for concern. Increased cancer rates likely resulted from high exposures in a occupational settings. The dose makes the poison.
 
Have we determined Hoppes #9 contains benzene? I have yet to see a valid MSDS. Based on the thread the MSDS is either hard to get, non-existent, or confused with Hoppes lubricating oil.

No sense in getting worked up until there is a problem and I have yet to see the problem.
 
Probably the most carcinogenic part of Hoppes is when I've watched others attach a used patch to the end of their cleaning rod and dip it into the nitro solvent. A dirty patch will contain trace amounts of nitrocellulose (non-carcinogenic I believe), copper, and lead (a known carcinogen). So there may be a minute amount of lead in the Hoppes.
 
by Waitone

Have we determined Hoppes #9 contains benzene? I have yet to see a valid MSDS. Based on the thread the MSDS is either hard to get, non-existent, or confused with Hoppes lubricating oil.

I have an MSDS for Hoppes #9. I posted the header in a previous post above. As stated in the post, there is no benzene in the formula and Section 10 of the MSDS does not indicate that Hoppes #9 is a suspected carcinogen. It also states that the solvent is not on the California Prop 65 list of suspected and known carcinogens.
 
Benzene is a known carcinogen. If there were any in Hoppe's #9 they would have to disclose it on their MSDS. I worked in a DuPont chemical factory for 37 1/2 years. Thirty of those years were in a control lab. We used Benzene in one analysis and distilled it to use over again. We also used it in our Zippo lighters if we ran out of lighter fluid. We learned over the years of many harmful chemicals, pesticides, irritants, chromates, lead, asbestos and other fun things. As you learn, you change your habits. Common sense will dictate that you stay out of any product you're not sure of. Wear protective gear, such as rubber gloves if you're not sure of the product.

Does that sound preachy? I hope so. I got bladder cancer three years ago and they told me that the three most contributing factors are 1. White male.
2. Smoking. 3. Working in a chemical factory or a beauty shop.

You should see me now, rubber gloves, eye protection, any and all that I can do to stay out of all the crap I used to wallow in. It may be a little late for me. :banghead:

I trust Hoppe's, but I still don't wallow in it.
 
Well, we all gotta croak from something and OD'ing on Hoppe's is about as gooda way to go as any.
However, if yer all that concerned, MPro-7 is non-toxic, biodegradable, earth-friendly and other fuzzy feel-good adjectives. It's also a better cleaner than anything else I've every used.
 
poisonous chemicals

Hi, I don't know if I'm raising this thread from the dead but I work in a chemical factory and have some personal knowedge of the subject. For the guy who smells the Hoppes in is room just clean it some more times. If you can smell it you are getting small exposures all the time. Benzine is bad news which is why Hoppes doesn't have it any more. However any exposure you can avoid is worth avoiding. That way you don't have to worry so much about cumulative effects.

The poster is correct that MSDS are over the top scary. But water can kill you and dust(silica) does give you lung problems. I think the long term doses are the big danger. So I wear rubber gloves when I clean my guns just to avoid that little bit. It also keeps the chemicals out of any cracks or cuts in my fingers and keeps me from eating or smoking which are ways for the bad stuff to get into you.

We all wear hearing protection and I think chemical protection is a similiar habit to get into.

pete
 
Waitone writes: "Have we determined Hoppes #9 contains benzene? I have yet to see a valid MSDS. Based on the thread the MSDS is either hard to get, non-existent, or confused with Hoppes lubricating oil."


When all else fails...Call the folks at Hoppes for a MSDS. They have to supply you with one.

Lex in NC
 
Used to use Hoppes...

But when the company sold to Michael's of Oregon the "magic formula" got changed, no doubt to reduce cost. Long story short, it doesn't work as well as some other stuff anymore. I use Shooters Choice now. Made here in Ohio, to boot.
 
New MSDS

Hoppe's NEW MSDS can be found at http://www.hoppes.com/au_msds.html

The ones listed above are old...apparently new requirements require more complete disclosure.

The NEW MSDS dated August 27, 2007 lists the following ingredients:
Kerosene
Ethyl Alcohol
Xylene
Amyl Acetate
Ammonium Hydroxide
Citronella

Safety: According to Wikipedia, Xylene is a mixture of three benzene compounds...the ortho-, meta-, and para- isomers of dimethylbenzene. Curiously, the MSDS indicates that "ethyl benzene" is a component of xylene which is a "possible human carcinogen"--perhaps it is a low level impurity. MSDS also lists xylene as a teratogen, which means it may cause birth defects.

Odor: There are three compounds that have distinctive odors. Amyl Acetate (or at least certain isomers of this compound) are also known as "banana oil" and account for most of the very distinctive smell of #9. Xylene accounts for the "sweet" smell. Finally, Citronella also has a distinctive oder, but to be honest I can't identify it in the mixture. I clearly smell the amyl acetate and the xylene. Please note that pure kerosene is odorless, and although ethyl alcohol has a distinctive odor, it is probably overpowered by the xylene and amyl acetate.

Thus endith the chemistry lesson for today.
 
This fear of Hoppe's #9 is unfounded. As an experiment, I've been pouring the stuff on my Wheaties every morning since this thread was started. The growth on the side of my head hasn't gotten any bigger at all.
 
Wear rubber/neoprene gloves and clean your guns in a well ventilated space if you are concerned.
Gloves have been mentioned above a few times. Take heed. As a weekend DIY, I used to subject my hands to all manner of engine fluids, cleaners and the like... and ended up with eczema in my late 40's. It's no picnic. PROTECT YOUR HANDS and your health in general. An ounce of prevention avoids tons of regret.
 
The original post asked, "just how carcinogenic is Hoppes #9?"

I think since the only "possible human carcinogen" listed on the MSDS is something that is probably only a trace impurity, we can safely assume that the risk of developing cancer from Hoppes #9 is VERY LOW! (But this is only true for the nitro-benzene free formulation introduced in the mid 1990s).

Regarding the risk of birth defects...just don't make your pregnant wife clean the the guns!
 
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