Just Ordered RMR 124grFMJ

[Jonesy814]

I have been reloading for just over 3 years I load 38/357, 45acp, .380 and 9mm. All of the 9mm I have loaded so far have been with plated bullets. The first couple years I used Xtreme 124gr bullets. Last year I bought 1000 of the RMR Hardcore Match heavy plated 124gr bullets and in fact just loaded some today. I could see that once I am done loading the 500 or so I intend to load in this run I will need more 1/4gr bullets so I ordered the new 124gr FMJ now offered by RMR. I haven't decided which powder I will use yet for these. I have PowerPistol, BE-86,CFE Pistol and Unique on hand. I generally use PowerPistol or CFE Pistol for 9mm and have tried BE-86 for a few.
Have bought cast 158gr as well as some plated 100gr for 380 from RMR in the past and like their bullets

 

[bullseye308]

I have had real good luck with BE-86 and the RMR 124 grain bullets. I have another 1000 to load and 10 more pounds of BE-86 waiting on some more.

 

[Ruger 15151]

I have had real good luck with BE-86 and the RMR 124 grain bullets. I have another 1000 to load and 10 more pounds of BE-86 waiting on some more.

How much BE-86 and what COL?

 

[1KPerDay]

Look up published data, work out the OAL that works in your guns.

 

[Ruger 15151]

Look up published data, work out the OAL that works in your guns.

Gee. ... that's super helpful! Thanks

 

[1KPerDay]

Gee. ... that's super helpful! Thanks

You're welcome. I suppose if I suggested a 9 Major load with a 1.02 OAL you'd be thankful?

 

[LiveLife]

Ruger 15151, 124 gr RN loaded with 5.2 gr BE-86 at 1.135" should produce around 1100 fps.

If loaded lighter than 5.2 gr, especially with longer OAL, accuracy is not as good.

 

[Ruger 15151]

You're welcome. I suppose if I suggested a 9 Major load with a 1.02 OAL you'd be thankful?

Actually NO .... because the question was not directed toward you but to bullseye308. However, thanks again for your thoughtful reply.

 

[bullseye308]

I use 5.2 win 124 Gold Dots(and RMR) with great success.

 

[Ruger 15151]

View attachment 234282 I use 5.2 win 124 Gold Dots(and RMR) with great success.

Bullseye.. nice shooting!! I also load 125 gr zero jhp with 5.2 gr of BE-86 at 1.120 - 1.130. Although it's not the perfect load for any one of my 9mm, it's a pretty good compromise load for all 3 of them.

Thanks for sharing. Although my favorite powder is still win 231, BE-86 is becoming a very close second.

 

[ray15]

Ruger 15151, 124 gr RN loaded with 5.2 gr BE-86 at 1.135" should produce around 1100 fps.

I don't understand how you get 1.135" OAL to chamber. I have to go down to 1.045" to chamber in either my Hornady cartridge gauge or the barrels of my guns. This understandably drives pressure way up (starting charge of CFE Pistol produced 1100fps from a 3.3" barrel). It doesn't seem to be my gauge - 115gr. Blazer Brass falls out of it at 1.16". I have the same issue with both Acme 124gr. RN and Precision 125gr. RN. All appear to need 1.045-1.050". What am I missing here?

 

[longdayjake]

You've either got something wrong with the chamber on your gun or there is something amiss with your reloading practices. Can you post a picture of your rounds loaded that short? I bet they look crazy short.

 

[ray15]

I apologize, I misspoke on several key points. I did have to seat the Acme and Precision coated 124/125 RNs at 1.050. And their velocities corresponded with the Hodgdon load data fairly well.

But it's the 115gr. RMR FMJs I have, not 124s. And measuring the rounds, I ended up at 1.100" OAL, but they still are short compared to the Blazer Brass 115 I have pictured with it (1.15" for this lot).

As for the gun, I have two, as well as the Hornady cartridge gauge. The results across the three are nearly identical. I am using a Lee Classic turret press with their carbide 4-die set. I have the dies adjusted per their recommendations. At 1.100" your 115s stick in the cartridge gauge with no trip through the FCD, at the recommended 1/2 turn of preload or a little less on the FCD they seat fully and slide back out. With the crimp, they measure .375-.376" at the case mouth, the same as the factory Blazer Brass loading. I am using once-fired Blazer Brass cases.

Hodgdon's load data lists starting load as 5.3 gr. of CFE pistol for 1,059fps. I'm seeing 1100fps+ out of a 3.3" barrel, where the Blazer Brass does 1010fps from the same gun.

 

[longdayjake]

So, essentially the chamber has no leade. Furthermore, the Lee factory crimp die should not be used as a sizing die. All that does is resize your bullet. Yeah, it will fit in a case gauge but it isn't good for accuracy.

As you can see in your picture, we have a shorter ogive than the other one posted. The idea behind that was to give as much bearing surface and case neck tension as possible.

 

[ray15]

So, essentially the chamber has no leade. Furthermore, the Lee factory crimp die should not be used as a sizing die. All that does is resize your bullet. Yeah, it will fit in a case gauge but it isn't good for accuracy.

I am replicating the crimp on the factory load, as best I can determine. There is some case mouth expansion to allow the bullet to enter the case without damage; the crimp is largely removing that expansion. It's there, but the crimp isn't excessively firm, much less damaging. I just pulled one and measured - it's .3555 just like they unused ones are. I only noted it to make clear that the issue isn't the case mouth being too large.

In any event, it's of more concern to me why the 5.3gr. starting charge is producing higher than max velocities. This load would be 1200fps+ in my 4" gun, with Hodgdon listing 5.9 grains/1185fps max.

As you can see in your picture, we have a shorter ogive than the other one posted. The idea behind that was to give as much bearing surface and case neck tension as possible.

As noted the chambers on both my nines agree with the SAAMI-spec cartridge gauge; there's nothing unusual about them. If it's by design that you may have to go to 1.100" to seat in a SAAMI-spec chamber, why don't you publish that information on the product page - along with a warning that when you do you might have to back off any published jacketed load data (even the starting charge).

 

[longdayjake]

Your gun is the only one that I've heard having this issue. Your response makes me think that maybe I worded that wrong. I didn't mean any offense and I'm sorry. I've just never had anyone else complain of the same issue. We've tested them is 8 different guns that are the most common ones out there and we've sold almost 5 million of them so far and your issue is the first I've heard of this. 1.135 isn't very long. 1.135 has worked in everything we tried it in. I've settled on a load that is 1.145 and I have had no issues in any of the guns we tested them in. If we have any more reports like yours I will be adding it to the website but not knowing what guns they were having issues in, I don't really know what I should say. 5,000,000 bullets is a pretty large sample to suggest that something else is going on.

At 1.100" your 115s stick in the cartridge gauge with no trip through the FCD, at the recommended 1/2 turn of preload or a little less on the FCD they seat fully and slide back out.

This tells me that you have more of a casing issue than a bullet issue. If the bullet was hitting the rifling it wouldn't chamber regardless of what your crimp did. Try running a few rounds through the FCD without the crimping collet in it. That would tell you if it is a crimp issue or a brass issue. Here is a video that kinda shows what I'm talking about.



He doesn't remove the crimp collet but I don't believe that sizing and crimping should happen at the same time. I've answered literally thousands of calls and emails from people troubleshooting poor accuracy, loose case neck tension, and sometimes even tumbling bullets that were solved by removing the Lee FCD. This issue is usually only experienced with straight wall pistol cartridges which shouldn't happen with 9mm so you should be okay there. I can't guarantee that this will work, but my experience of working on these issues every day tells me that it should. I think the Lee FCD is a great bulge buster but a poor crimp die.

Here is a picture of our rounds loaded to 1.135 next to a factory round from Herter's bought at Cabela's. As you can see, visually they are similar except for our nose is slightly flatter. But, we have about the same amount of exposed body.

 

[LiveLife]

I don't understand how you get 1.135" OAL to chamber. I have to go down to 1.045" to chamber in either my Hornady cartridge gauge or the barrels of my guns.

I apologize, I misspoke on several key points ... it's the 115gr. RMR FMJs I have, not 124s. And measuring the rounds, I ended up at 1.100" OAL, but they still are short compared to the Blazer Brass 115 I have pictured with it (1.15" for this lot).

As for the gun, I have two, as well as the Hornady cartridge gauge. The results across the three are nearly identical. I am using a Lee Classic turret press with their carbide 4-die set. I have the dies adjusted per their recommendations. At 1.100" your 115s stick in the cartridge gauge with no trip through the FCD, at the recommended 1/2 turn of preload or a little less on the FCD they seat fully and slide back out. With the crimp, they measure .375-.376" at the case mouth, the same as the factory Blazer Brass loading. I am using once-fired Blazer Brass cases.

OAL required to fully chamber RMR's in-house 115/124 gr FMJs depends on the leade/freebore length and start angle of rifling of the barrel.

Picture below is my KKM 40-9 conversion barrel showing leade/freebore before the start of rifling and like my Lone Wolf 40-9 conversion barrels for Glock 22/23/27 and Just Right/PSA carbine barrels, will not only fully chamber RMR 115/124 gr FMJs loaded to 1.135" OAL but to longer OAL with .378" taper crimp loaded on Lee dies (I do not use the FCD and seat/taper crimp in the same step).

Picture below is my newest Lone Wolf conversion barrel for Glock 23 showing essentially no leade before the start of rifling and I need to load RMR 115/124 gr FMJ to 1.125" OAL to fully chamber.

From left to right, comparison picture below shows bullet nose profiles (ogive) of Zero 115 gr FMJ, RMR 115 gr FMJ, RMR 124 gr FMJ, Winchester 115 gr FMJ and Speer 115 gr TMJ.

Due to more pointed nose profile, Speer 115 gr TMJ and Winchester 115 gr FMJ fully chambered in my newest Lone Wolf barrel for G23 at 1.165" OAL. Due to more rounded nose profile (which increases the bullet base length), RMR in-house 115/124 gr FMJs fully chambered at 1.125" OAL and Zero 115 gr FMJ fully chambered at 1.120" OAL.

 

[longdayjake]

You're getting pretty good with that camera of yours. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

 

[longdayjake]

BDS, are you happy with the lone wolf barrel? I've heard both good and bad about them.

 

[Ruger 15151]

bds... Great explanation and photography! As always!

I have 3 9mm pistols, 2 with storm lake barrels. I had all the barrels throated so that I could chamber RMR 124 gr RH bullets at 1.145. A bit more hassle but I wanted to be able to load plinking / training rounds with the same bullet and COL for all 3 pistols. Also, I can load most all JHPs and FNs at 1.120 instead of the usual 1.040 - 1.060.

 

[longdayjake]

Ruger 15151, did you have to special order those? I've got two of them as well for my M&P Core guns and they let you seat out past 1.150 easily. But I didn't have to special order anything for the chamber.

 

[ray15]

Your gun is the only one that I've heard having this issue. Your response makes me think that maybe I worded that wrong. I didn't mean any offense and I'm sorry. I've just never had anyone else complain of the same issue. We've tested them is 8 different guns that are the most common ones out there and we've sold almost 5 million of them so far and your issue is the first I've heard of this. 1.135 isn't very long. 1.135 has worked in everything we tried it in. I've settled on a load that is 1.145 and I have had no issues in any of the guns we tested them in. If we have any more reports like yours I will be adding it to the website but not knowing what guns they were having issues in, I don't really know what I should say. 5,000,000 bullets is a pretty large sample to suggest that something else is going on.

No problem, thanks for your detailed response. I was frustrated in that your previous reply seemed to suggest this was to be expected with the bullet profile. I do think it would be a good to give some OAL recommendations on the product pages - if nothing else it might deflect a few questions.

I think the issue is the Hornady cartridge gauge. I put the factory Blazer Brass 115 in it and it's sticking. The round chambers fine in gun. A trip through the FCD die - with our without the crimping collar, makes no difference.

So I mocked up a round with your 115gr. FMJ and set it really long - 1.24". At that length, it clearly hits the rifling in the barrel. I progressively shortened the round, and at 1.155" it's spinning freely in the chamber and not leaving any tracks in the sharpie ink I'm using as an indicator on the bullet. But at that length it doesn't even come close to seating in the cartridge gauge - as mentioned you have to go all the way to 1.100" for it to fall freely. The gauge has a length of .756", with a hole of only .347" after that, with no apparent leade. I would think a hole of .355 would be more appropriate.

It looks like I can set the OAL a lot longer than the gauge indicates. I've only got one of my guns handy at present, but I'll check the other next week and make sure it will also go for something in the 1.135-1.145" range. Thanks again for your help.

 

[ray15]

... will not only fully chamber RMR 115/124 gr FMJs loaded to 1.135" OAL but to longer OAL with .378" taper crimp loaded on Lee dies (I do not use the FCD and seat/taper crimp in the same step).

How do you achieve a .378" taper crimp using the Lee seating die? Mine comes out ~.380". Is there a way to adjust this without affecting the seating depth?

This picture isn't great, but it does evidence a pronounced leade. It's a 25-year old m43 Firestar.

As mentioned in my previous post it's clearing the RMR 115FMJ at 1.155". Thanks for your input and the pictures.

 

[Jack B.]

Nice pics!

 

[Jonesy814]

I got order of RMR 124gr FMJ bullets today. I ordered them on Wednesday and considering they had to ship almost across the whole country, that's some darn good service. I just loaded the last 100 of my RMR plated bullets from last fall. I will be loading some of the FMJ this coming week, probably with Power Pistol