K98 Mauser - Russian Capture

[<*(((><]

Picked up another gap in my WWII collection. Been looking for a K98 in good condition with sharp stamps. It came with a surplus bayonet (likely Yugoslavian, but in good condition) and 50 rounds of 8mm Wolf Gold. Rifling is in good condition and bore is bright.



Here below is some of the Waffenamts and German Bird with Swastika, which are all really crisp. The Waffenamts read WaA63 (42, Mauserwerk, Oberndorf, 1938-39). The barrel and receiver match. There is electroscribed serials on all other parts by the Russians after capture, as well as the X stamped on top of the front receiver bridge.








Pretty pleased with my find. Still looking for a "Mum" intact Ariska, clean Swiss K31, French MAS 36, and a reproduction Thompson would be fine with me as well. Another would be an Enfield other than my Jungle Carbine would round out the collection quite nicely. Then on to some pistols.

 

[boom boom]

Picked up another gap in my WWII collection. Been looking for a K98 in good condition with sharp stamps. It came with a surplus bayonet (likely Yugoslavian, but in good condition) and 50 rounds of 8mm Wolf Gold. Rifling is in good condition and bore is bright.

View attachment 894408

Here below is some of the Waffenamts and German Bird with Swastika, which are all really crisp. The Waffenamts read WaA63 (42, Mauserwerk, Oberndorf, 1938-39). The barrel and receiver match. There is electroscribed serials on all other parts by the Russians after capture, as well as the X stamped on top of the front receiver bridge.

View attachment 894409

View attachment 894410

View attachment 894411


Pretty pleased with my find. Still looking for a "Mum" intact Ariska, clean Swiss K31, French MAS 36, and a reproduction Thompson would be fine with me as well. Another would be an Enfield other than my Jungle Carbine would round out the collection quite nicely. Then on to some pistols.

Consider that it could be the lesser known Yugo 98k capture--the Russians were pretty good about peening markings on k98's while the Yugos did it half-butted. The Yugos also shortened some captured 98k issue stocks slightly for some reason (shortening the barrel?) that I forgot and some will not mount bayonets as a consequence..

 

[<*(((><]

Consider that it could be the lesser known Yugo 98k capture--the Russians were pretty good about peening markings on k98's while the Yugos did it half-butted. The Yugos also shortened some captured 98k issue stocks slightly for some reason (shortening the barrel?) that I forgot and some will not mount bayonets as a consequence..

Any way to verify what you say? I'm all ears, I'll be the first to admit I know enough to be dangerous with some military arms.

All the electro stenciling was quick and hand done, legible but sloppy. I'll get some pictures of that tonight.

 

[boom boom]

X on the receiver probably indicates a Russian Capture along with electro stenciling. However, Ivan must have got sloppy as usually RC rifles have their swastikas peened. The Yugos wiped some receivers almost totally for the Predusze 44's and left some in various states of being peened etc. Russian captures demonstrate a bit more consistency in what was done.

Does your rifle look refinished and counterbored? Russians did that a fair amount before putting these into war reserve. Here is an old RC page from Empire that might be of use in id'ing. Don't think that the Yugos counterbored like the russians did. And I believe I remember now why the Yugos shortened stocks for 98k's is that they used their own barrels from the 24/47 and m48 models on the german receivers. Barrels are a bit shorter.

 

[boom boom]

BTW, Oberndorfs are usually top notch in quality throughout WWII which is not true of some other factories. Good buy. Try simpson's ltd. for a k31 in good shape or checkpoint charlie's. Arisakas with mums show up every now and then on gunbroker--both t38's and t99's are around but the t38 long rifles are a bit of fun to shoot with very little recoil. Parts are generally missing from T99's such as airplane wing sights and the crappy bipod or repro parts are substituted. Less of an issue with T38's.

MAS 36's show up now and again on gunbroker for a reasonable price but avoid any that Century has converted to .308--people have problems with those regarding headspace and safety issues.

 

[<*(((><]

I’ve bid on several MAS 36’s on gunbroker but have never won . I wouldn’t even consider a 7.62x51 MAS. I’ll buy enough brass ammo of each that I can keep them running with the little bit they’ll be shot.

I’ll look into the websites you suggested, although it won’t be soon to make another purchase, have to let the fund build back up. Of course a nice Springfield 1903 in original furniture just showed up on a local buy/sell.

 

[fpgt72]

Took me a few years to find the right Type 99 with all the doo-dads on it that had the mum. Still looking for a clean 38, no such luck so far. The MAS is a really underrated rifle IMHO, I would go as far as saying the best all around bolt rifle issued....kinda follows as it was one if not the last clean sheet of paper design put out there....but it does have some of the french....ahh....special design features. My only 98K is an RC as well and pretty crisp. Don't forget the G43 before they get too stupid, G41 and Johnsons are already pretty stupid. If you do go G43 make sure it has an Apfeltor kit for it....most of the shooters do now....mine does but it is nothing special, repro Polish stock and a host of new bits....it got sportered back in the 50's....and thank god never changed to something else...it stayed 8mm.

Don't forget Carcano....it is another very hard to find example that is in good shape....most are really just flat worn out, mis matched bolts......they never got the....respect....they should have and finding a "good" one is a VERY hard thing to do. I have one "good" one and it came out of a museum and was done up as a LHO rifle....very well done but missing the sling. Not sure I will ever shoot it as I have others, but the action on that one carcano is really something that shocked me....very nice, very smooth....it is a VERY clean example.

 

[fpgt72]

Wanted to add....even if you G43 has the updated kit don't be shocked if it sheds parts.....I was at a CMP match and mine decided it did not want its extractor any longer....look down and see a FTE and a new round trying to be jammed in there....no extractor to be seen....missing the little screw looking thingy as well as the spring....they are just gone. Not sure where it went and I was on concrete....likely flung it into a low earth orbit like it wants to do with "normal" loaded brass. The guns in stock form are very over gassed.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I'm glad that I am fairly immune to the buying, let alone collecting, of Mausers.

Every now and again I see one I'd really, really want for some intangible aesthetic reason and the one shown in the OP is just that.

I can walk past literally hundreds of Mausers and then after months of not slowing down, one - for some unknown reason - will catch my eye.

This is one of those.

In fact, I had zero intention of opening this post because; "Oh.... yeah..... another Mauser.... yawn.....

So glad I hit it accidentally.

Todd.

 

[boom boom]

I’ve bid on several MAS 36’s on gunbroker but have never won . I wouldn’t even consider a 7.62x51 MAS. I’ll buy enough brass ammo of each that I can keep them running with the little bit they’ll be shot.

I’ll look into the websites you suggested, although it won’t be soon to make another purchase, have to let the fund build back up. Of course a nice Springfield 1903 in original furniture just showed up on a local buy/sell.

If the price is decent, buy the 1903 if you don't have one. Price appreciation will be greater and easy to find cheap ammo. If it is an original 1903 with the barrel mounted rear sights, consider buying one of the O'Hare micrometer devices for the rear sight (or some replicas were made). The 1903a3 is good as is with its sights probably being the best of all of the military issue bolt rifles out of the box.

One other option on the MAS 36, there are a fair number that have been crudely sportered by cutting the forend. Saw one the other day at $425 that had that done to it (too high but beside the point). Forends and the necessary barrel bands etc. are still available so if you see one without a barrel cut and the rest of it looks ok. You can fit a new stock to it without a whole lot of hassles. Most will have a counterbored barrel though which people speculate was done when the MAS 36 was converted to the newer MAS 36/51 std.

I picked up the other day what I believe is a rare rear sight for the MAS 36 which has adjustable vertical and horizontal windage. No commercial markings on the sight at all. Apparently, the French Air Force was too cheap to go with the Army's FRF1 sniper program and simply converted new MAS 36/51 receivers to their std. The one with the telescopic sight is the FRG2 but the earlier std. FRG1 apparently used an iron sight which is only seen in French schematics which is how I identified the part. Not sure what has to be done to the receiver to fit it yet but I have a parts 36/51 that I can alter if necessary to fit the sight. To me, the sights are the only thing wrong with the MAS 36 but they were designed for minute of man battle use and no tampering with by ordinary soldiers. So, it worked for them.

Regarding Carcano's, I agree that what normally has been seen is clapped out, barrel cut, crude sporter carbines fired with either crappy surplus ammo or the new stuff with the wrong sized bullet. I have one of the last Fusil model 91 Carcano rifles built in the 1930's with the gain twist barrel. Only problem was that the stock is warped and it had a cracked handguard and it took me two years to find another complete stock plus two years to get a replica handguard. Otherwise the rifle was dirty but clean under the dirt.

 

[boom boom]

I'm glad that I am fairly immune to the buying, let alone collecting, of Mausers.

Every now and again I see one I'd really, really want for some intangible aesthetic reason and the one shown in the OP is just that.

I can walk past literally hundreds of Mausers and then after months of not slowing down, one - for some unknown reason - will catch my eye.

This is one of those.

In fact, I had zero intention of opening this post because; "Oh.... yeah..... another Mauser.... yawn.....

So glad I hit it accidentally.

Todd.

To be fair, a lot of the Mausers put out there now are pretty clapped out or chopped up. Of the Mauser design military rifles, I have examples of all the major designs but the Mauser 71 with my recent acquisition of the Model 1891. Most are now looking pretty rough and a lot of them are coming from South America where they were not kept up well. If I recall some of the stories about the Russian war reserve, they kept them in old mines etc. after rearsenaling them with copious application of the Russian equivalent of cosmolene.

 

[<*(((><]

I'm glad that I am fairly immune to the buying, let alone collecting, of Mausers.

Every now and again I see one I'd really, really want for some intangible aesthetic reason and the one shown in the OP is just that.

I can walk past literally hundreds of Mausers and then after months of not slowing down, one - for some unknown reason - will catch my eye.

This is one of those.

In fact, I had zero intention of opening this post because; "Oh.... yeah..... another Mauser.... yawn.....

So glad I hit it accidentally.

Todd.

I'm not one to just dance with the first girl through the door. With the ones I want for collecting they have to be right in most of the areas. I've been looking at WWII rifles for purchase for my personal collection for quite a few years. For instance, I won't settle for just any old Ariska, it will have to be clean and have the chrysanthemum in good condition. The MAS 36's are always easy to find in good condition as they didn't see hardly any action if at all. I don't want to delve into semi-autos at this time unless they shoot readily available ammuntion, but if I get my bolt actions squared away, I might continue to try and find some semi-autos like the G43, MAS 49, SVT-40, STG44. Some of these I may look into some of the replicas, as I've heard there are some that are pretty good with functioning magazine, trigger, etc.

I'm not one who needs to collect all the different mausers, or the like, but rather just want a period piece of each of the battle rifles from WWII. I know I will appreciate the time I spent acquiring, researching and with the eventual use of bringing out and showing my kids when they are adults and my grandchildren someday. I've just thought it would be neat to sit down when they are studying WWII or watching a WWII movie that I can show them an example of what those brave soldiers were carrying.

Glad you like it, It definitely caught my attention, as I've passed by Mausers in the past; and once I saw this one it met my criteria for purchase. Got it for a good deal as well, $600 with 50 rounds of Wolf Gold and the Yugo bayonet.

 

[Terry G]

I bought some surplus Mauser's from AIM and Centerfire when they were cheap. The ammunition (Corrosive) was even cheaper. I still have a couple thousand rounds. I've never had a misfire. Still bright in the cloth bandoliers. Corrosive really is nothing to fear if you clean properly. Yugoslavian and one Peruvian I believe.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I'm not one to just dance with the first girl through the door. With the ones I want for collecting they have to be right in most of the areas. I've been looking at WWII rifles for purchase for my personal collection for quite a few years. I'm not one who needs to collect all the different mausers, or the like, but rather just want a period piece of each of the battle rifles from WWII. I know I will appreciate the time I spent acquiring, researching and with the eventual use of bringing out and showing my kids when they are adults and my grandchildren someday. I've just thought it would be neat to sit down when they are studying WWII or watching a WWII movie that I can show them an example of what those brave soldiers were carrying.

Glad you like it, It definitely caught my attention, as I've passed by Mausers in the past; and once I saw this one it met my criteria for purchase. Got it for a good deal as well, $600 with 50 rounds of Wolf Gold and the Yugo bayonet.

I get that. I don't really even care to know what it is about certain Mausers that move me since I'm well past the days of initiating a *collection* on the cheap.

Still, as with Enfields, there are those odd ones that I would otherwise REALLY want to have and I fall back to my "new caliber-to me" defense.

All in all though, the one back-door will be if I see the right carbine one day as in the case of me popping for a beautiful FR-8 and a righteous, perfect *Jungle Carbine*. My buying of carbines knows no rational limits when the right one screams; "BUY ME!" Even broke my Winchester-lever-gun rule when I fell in love with an ancient 16" Trapper.

In part, I blame Mitchell's Mausers for setting the embers of my interest in Mausers at an otherwise ripe old age.

Todd.

 

[<*(((><]

Took it apart last night and cleaned more of the dried cosmoline off of it, lightly polished some of the internals and gave it a thin coat of oil. There is a very small hairline crack in the mortised section behind the trigger but other than that the wood is in excellent condition and has a really nice aged look to it which I appreciate.

 

[<*(((><]

X on the receiver probably indicates a Russian Capture along with electro stenciling. However, Ivan must have got sloppy as usually RC rifles have their swastikas peened. The Yugos wiped some receivers almost totally for the Predusze 44's and left some in various states of being peened etc. Russian captures demonstrate a bit more consistency in what was done.

Does your rifle look refinished and counterbored? Russians did that a fair amount before putting these into war reserve. Here is an old RC page from Empire that might be of use in id'ing. Don't think that the Yugos counterbored like the russians did. And I believe I remember now why the Yugos shortened stocks for 98k's is that they used their own barrels from the 24/47 and m48 models on the german receivers. Barrels are a bit shorter.

It isn't counterbored, the crown looks ok maybe some slight wear from cleaning rod, but it parts of the barrel have some pitting not too bad (about a 1" section on the top of the barrel just in front of the top furniture I believe, that has been repainted, I noticed when I stripped it last night.

I've found is a lot of these Russian captures have had the markings peened; how frequent has it been in your mind @boom boom to find that. That was a big part of what I appreciated about this Mauser, the electrostenciling is over the top on the removeable parts though.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Took it apart last night and cleaned more of the dried cosmoline off of it, lightly polished some of the internals and gave it a thin coat of oil. There is a very small hairline crack in the mortised section behind the trigger but other than that the wood is in excellent condition and has a really nice aged look to it which I appreciate.

So then... Prettier still than the original photo?

How about an *after* pic?

Todd.

 

[boom boom]

Most have the swastikas peened and the X on the receiver marks a RC as I don't think the Yugos were that organized. The Wehrmacht acceptance aka dirty birds prior to 1938 I believe are generally left alone by Ivan.

The Yugos did everything from leaving them alone, to scrubbing almost all waffenamts (markings) and restamping them with heroic Yugo markings. The sheer amount of ordinance left in Yugo world might have had something to do with the Soviets more or less leaving them alone compared with the rest of Eastern Europe. Stalin wanted no part of a guerrila war with the Yugos.

 

[<*(((><]

Most have the swastikas peened and the X on the receiver marks a RC as I don't think the Yugos were that organized. The Wehrmacht acceptance aka dirty birds prior to 1938 I believe are generally left alone by Ivan.

The Yugos did everything from leaving them alone, to scrubbing almost all waffenamts (markings) and restamping them with heroic Yugo markings. The sheer amount of ordinance left in Yugo world might have had something to do with the Soviets more or less leaving them alone compared with the rest of Eastern Europe. Stalin wanted no part of a guerrila war with the Yugos.

Was placing an X on the receiver (and I found one on the furniture, can't remember where I saw it, will take it apart and look again) strictly a Russian capture procedure or did the Yugo's do that as well, your comment above seems to think only Russians? I've always been under the impression the X was strictly a Russian capture procedure. But thought it was interesting they didn't deface the other German markings.

 

[boom boom]

Oh, and besides counterboring, the Russians often did a mixmaster thing on the rifles with barrels, stocks, trigger guards, etc. not matching up with the original conformations. To determine that, you have to know the waffenamts of the suppliers and which parts were likely to be matched with certain factories that assembled the rifles. That is complicated because the Germans changed their numbers periodically so you might still have an all original RC with what appears to be non-matching parts. What happened in reality is parts binning might cause barrel bands to be marked differently than the barrel but it was correct. S42k, S42g, S42,42, byf, and swv among others were company codes used to mark receivers from Oberndorf over the years. Waa63, Waa 108, Waa 135, Waa 211, Waa 241, and Waa655 were all parts stamped as coming from the Oberndorf factory. http://www.eaglerelics.com/waffenamt-codes/ and receiver codes with serial numbers, http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/gbwaffen.html
http://mauser98k.internetdsl.pl/gbwaffen.html
In the 98k case, it is kind of like M1 Carbines as the only thing the Russians cared about was that the rifles would go bang, not to make period correct 98k rifles with corresponding issued parts.

 

[<*(((><]

Thanks for the continued information @boom boom, I hoped and figured you would show up here. You’re a wealth of knowledge on Mausers

 

[boom boom]

Was placing an X on the receiver (and I found one on the furniture, can't remember where I saw it, will take it apart and look again) strictly a Russian capture procedure or did the Yugo's do that as well, your comment above seems to think only Russians? I've always been under the impression the X was strictly a Russian capture procedure. But thought it was interesting they didn't deface the other German markings.

Sorry, I was unclear, yes, the X on the receiver is believed to be done by the Russians but given the illegal weapons trade, it is possible that the Yugos got ahold of one here and there. Branko's book on Yugo Mausers indicates quite a bit of disorder in Yugoslavia during the late stages and post War Yugoslavia, especially with regards to record keeping. As the Yugos used a different intermediate receiver as their main arms, the German stuff was sold around the world to make money to various shady groups and then stuck in war reserve as everyone moved to semi and full auto rifles and forgotten until the Yugo civil war where everyone grabbed what they could that would go bang.

 

[boom boom]

Thanks for the continued information @boom boom, I hoped and figured you would show up here. You’re a wealth of knowledge on Mausers

If you go to gunboards, there are the real experts including the recently deceased John Wall. I believe at one time or another, he probably had or had at least handled about every Mauser variant ever built. Me, I'm a shooter and restorer that likes Mausers for the simplicity of the design. Unlike many German arms, the 98k was the culmination of a masterful design followed by continuous refinement over about 60 years of use.