Kahrs Incorrectly Get Bad Rap

[DAdams]

I have trust in mine now, but it did have to go back to the factory one time when it was new. During the first break-in attempt to get through 200 rounds it ran like cr@p. Kahr replaced the barrel and springs and it has been fine ever since.



PM9 with CT and Pearce extension.

 

[jblackfish]

Sorry you had the trouble but what a great end and referral for Davidson's. I own a PM9 and P9 both of which have been perfect from the outset. I'm also a big fan of .45 acp and I want a PM45 to "replace" my PM9 for main carry in the hotter months when getting enough clothes to conceal is difficult. I'm sure there are other distributors that take care of their customers too but how do you know who uses Davidson's and who doesn't? Ask the dealer? (I never thought of anything past whether or not the dealer takes care of its customers.)

 

[red rick]

Mags started dropping out of my P9 around the 200 round count. I called Kahr CS and they sent me a new mag catch. Since I replaced it, no mags have dropped. I still haven't shot it enough to trust it yet.

 

[rferizano]

The Kahr line of pistols are NOT range toys. They are an excellent conceal carry gun by their design and that is all they are.

 

[oso]

yes ask the dealer, davidsons puts a lifetime warranty on all firearms regardless of manufacturers warranty. or go to davidsons website and put in your zip code and there will be a list of all dealers in your area.

 

[jblackfish]

OSO Quote: .................or go to davidsons website and put in your zip code and there will be a list of all dealers in your area.

Thanks, OSO - FYI there's no place to enter a zip code on their site or other way to get a list of their dealers that I could see.

 

[billdeserthills]

Lefties be damned!

If I'm looking at a pistol, I want one that can be used by both arms, with or without the support of the opposite hand. If I have to drop the slide with only my left hand, how am I supposed to do it lefty in a reliable way? I suppose I could try and release it with my left pointer finger like I do on my XD but you lose grip when you do that.

Perhaps a Bersa would fit your bill, the 9,40 & 45 models include ambi slide release

 

[billdeserthills]

Davidson's recently made a change you may not be aware of with their program. Now You get to pay the freight! You might want to save a few bucks & pass on the Davidson's program. I have had several customers who were happier to just send their malfunctioning Davidsons guns to the manufacturer, and have them repaired.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Perhaps a Bersa would fit your bill, the 9,40 & 45 models include ambi slide release

Some guns like my XD-40, I'm able to use the slide release with my pointer finger of my left hand.

 

[F350Lawman]

I like Kahrs from a size/firepower standpoint and ont he whole they are a well constructed gun. It just seems that they go 99% of the way to making a GREAT gun and then miss something that ruins the entire effort. Here is my story:

I previously owned a PM40 in 2004 or so. The PM40 worked as a shooter BUT would remain (or move later) ever so slightly out of battery. I mean constantly, it would be in the holster slightly out of battery. I don't know what it was..bad springs??? They could not fix the gun and it drove me nuts. Eventually it was returned for good along with my partners PM40 with the same issue. It would function but I can't get around seeing my gun out of battery even if it was 1/16 or 3/32 or whatever (you could see it trust me). In the end Kahr was great and refunded the $$ to the gun shop and I bought my first 1911 variant (on a whim basically). Guess I should thank them I now have 2 and carry one or the other daily

So last week my business partner offers me his PM9 Black Diamond nightsighted model for free (I had been looking for a smaller gun to wear tucked with business attire). The gun was never fired and was sitting for 6 years but was well lubed. I cleaned and re-lubed it for good measure. I put 200 rounds through it yesterday, a mix of 75% 115gr ball (flat and round nose), and some 147 Hydra-Shocks I had left over. Gun runs great..BUT the mags suck. Especially the 6 rounder (everyone else has probs. with the 7 go figure?) The second round often..maybe 10% of the time feeds on a horizontal plane and stops the gun from going into battery. A tap on the slide and it is good to go..but come on that mag design sux!

I have Glocks, a Taurus, S&W's, a Colt, Rugers, a Grendel and now this Kahr. With the exception of the Glocks and the Rugers all manufactures have had at least one go back to the manufacturers. I am not picking on Kahr...rather my issue is that it is hard to believe nobody at Kahr saw how these mags functioned?? This was a groundball...cmon' now! Funny the PM 40 mags worked fine and they seem to be the same design if I remember correctly?

I see Promag makes aftermarket mags but they are they extended type. I want a flush 6rnd mag because this guns ONLY benefit over my other choices is concealability. Anyone have a solution?? Anyone play with the mags??? Gun shoots great, carries great and is one good mag away from being a fabulously well hidden carry piece

 

[oso]

jblackfish, you have to use the gun genie, and if davidsons did change their policy it must be very recent like within last 2 weeks. i just had another pistol replaced 3 weeks ago i didn't pay a dime.

 

[StockKahr]

I had two problems with my PM9, both of which I could work around, but which, together, led me to doubt whether I could use the gun reliably in a high-stress situation.

First, with my "regular" grip on the gun, my thumb frequently hit the magazine release button during recoil. I could get around that by changing my grip. But second, unless I held the gun with an absolute death grip, I tended to get FTF's. I verified both problems with an instructor at the local range.

Now, if this were my only handgun, or even my only semi-auto, I'd have just changed my grip and kept it. But it isn't, and after shooting for 20+ years, I didn't really feel like I should have to change the way I shoot just to make a weapon I might have to rely on in a life or death situation function reliably. So I traded it for a new Ruger LCR. It goes bang every time, and it doesn't care how I hold it.

In fairness, there are probably lots of other tiny semi-autos that also require a modified death grip to function properly, and I probably wouldn't have had much luck with any of them either. All I know is that I hold my Beretta 92FS, Glock G34, and S&W Model 39 the same way, and I have zero problems with any of them. YMMV.

 

[FMF Doc]

Reliability aside, as any weapon can malfunction, especially with the wide variety of ammo we often feed them these days in the name of saving money, my biggest, and really only complaint with Kahrs is how danged exprensive they are! Didn't used to be that way. I remember when they were newer, and the cheap ones in the case. Now they make some Sigs look economical. I don't think their quaility justifies their price tag. That's my complaint.

 

[saturno_v]

Ok so my impressions so far (maybe wrong, if so correct me please):

- On average no better reliability reputation than Kel Tec

- On average worse CS experience than Kel Tec

If so please give me my $260 trouble free P-11 (backed by a great CS) over the $600+ relatively better finished PM9 any time of the day...

Some people like to waste their money...hey their coin not mine.....


By the way I find absurd to spend 6-700 bucks for a mouse pocket gun....no matter how well finished it is....oops, I forgot.....the PM9 is a plastic gun too anyway.....

To be honest, I find somewhat more justified the $1000 price tag of the Rohrbaugh R9...the little bugger is finished literally like a jewel, it is aircraft grade alluminum and steel construction and at least you get the bragging right to be the smallest of the smallest in a service caliber.

 

[F350Lawman]

If so please give me my $260 trouble free P-11

I have plenty of handguns, so I would not choose a Keltec... it looks and feels cheap to me. Now that may sound harsh and I am sure it works fine, but still the Keltec is not something I would be happy carrying

By the way I find absurd to spend 6-700 bucks for a mouse pocket gun

Why???... miniaturization often makes things more expensive, shop for a laptop lately?? You an get a 7 lbs. and 17" laptop for a lot less than a thin and light 13.3 incher. I am sure tolerance$ get to be a real pain in the a$$ when guns shrink as much as they have lately. Also, I don't think any 9mm is a "mouse gun".

Some people like to waste their money...hey their coin not mine.....

I suppose you drive the cheapest car, wear the cheapest watch, etc. I mean hey they all tell time, take you from point a to point b...right? No..I bet you wear and drive what you like (within reason). I'm not into wasting money but if I am carrying the thing every waking minute, its money well spent in my book.

I want to get the Kahr PM9 running for the following reasons and not go to another comparable maker/model:

1.Their customer service was good in the past...money back after they couldn't correct the problem to my satisfaction, you can't beat that

2.The fit and finish is good..better than many small guns I have held. Metal work and finish was very good, plastic could have been smoothed a little though. Gun is tight and feels substantial compared to LCP, Keltec, etc. in my hand(again just preference)

3.Price..it was free!(as was my PM40)

4. I had the Keltec's predecessor the Grendel P10 and EVEN IT felt slightly nicer than the Keltec (I know that is subjective) but heck its gonna be MY gun

5. The gun carries great, thin, flat and smooth sides. (I have holsters for it too)

6. I have no issues with grip and even if I tried to limp wrist (I actually fired while pulling my hand towards body and it functions fine..sans the second round). It is just the second round nosedive with the 6rounder that is an issue regardless of grip, round choice etc.

7. Gun is pleasing to the eye. Now that may be silly but I enjoy carrying it. Same reason my 1911 gets used and my G-19 is mostly in the safe. They are both great, but the 1911 has character and soul! Call my crazy but I really like this gun is nicely done much better than my old two-toner PM40

Now with that said if I can't get it working 100% it will NOT get carried and will be exchanged for a nice gun such as the STI LS9 or maybe even a... gulp... 380 like the SIG P238

 

[saturno_v]

I have plenty of handguns, so I would not choose a Keltec... it looks and feels cheap to me. Now that may sound harsh and I am sure it works fine, but still the Keltec is not something I would be happy carrying

They work....perfectly adequate for what they are designed for, close range social work....same size as your PM9 more or less but with 12+1 capability.

I own different handguns from other very reputable manufacturers too (Beretta, S&W, Bersa) and I carry my KT very happily....

Why???... miniaturization often makes things more expensive, shop for a laptop lately?? You an get a 7 lbs. and 17" laptop for a lot less than a thin and light 13.3 incher. I am sure tolerance$ get to be a real pain in the a$$ when guns shrink as much as they have lately. Also, I don't think any 9mm is a "mouse gun".

Do you realize how different the two products are?? Problem of heat dissipation in electronic circuitry imposing completely different components and design....You could not get a more far apart industry.....often in the firearm world small cost more....just because it does and they can charge for that....concealability is seen as a feature to charge for.....sometimes a simple carbine version of a rifle is more expensive....

suppose you drive the cheapest car, wear the cheapest watch, etc. I mean hey they all tell time, take you from point a to point b...right? No..I bet you wear and drive what you like (within reason). I'm not into wasting money but if I am carrying the thing every waking minute, its money well spent in my book.

I had cheaper options for carrying highly concealed...a brand new Taurus snubnose revolver (or a slightly used S&W or Ruger)...even cheaper with a Charter Arms....as much as you probably do not believe it KT are quality guns presenting utilitarian finishing to keep cost down....

My P-11 is tossed in my pocket holster...I do not care if it wears it down, scratches, etc........if you end up in a situation where you need to use it (hopefully never) you could lose your gun...and all I lose is a $260 pistol not a $650+....and do not think for even one minute that yours is more reliable or more durable than mine.....I know it may make you feel better about your purchase but sorry in the real world is not the case....yes it is better finished and probably has better ergonomics or less felt recoil for some (I trade that for my 12+1 pills).....again, for a pocket pistol I rather get something very reliable and proven that works (and I have to be proficient with it obviously) without spending top dollars which I can free up for other purchases.....my P-11 fit that bill perfectly....a match in heaven.

Their customer service was good in the past

The best think about KT supposedly excellent CS is that I did never need it

Price..it was free!(as was my PM40)

Now you have my vote...a free gun.....I love free guns...between a $260 P-11 and a free Kahr PM9, I get the Kahr....

 

[Lawdawg45]

Allow me to add some factual evidence. Our local department here in Indianapolis (IMPD) which has over 1700 Officers, just pulled the Kahr .380 from it's approved off duty list. They cited numerous feeding issues with the Federal JHP ammo including stove pipe jams and FTF's, and this was an issue that the department Armorer's had been watching for over a year. On a personal note, I had a PM-9 which I loved the feel of, but well after the 200 round break in period and a polish of the feed ramp, would barely feed FMJ's, so it went bye bye. Just an FYI

LD

 

[jblackfish]

..................................

The picture you posted is EXACTLY mine - I never particularly liked the two-tone versions either, which most of them are, but mine has been SO reliable that I'd like to get a PM45 just like it. I wonder if some of the ones who had problems - like Lawdawg just posted..and others - were early ones. Seems like too many "early" new issues come out not quite ready to go.

I had that experience with a new model Diamondback .380 and it had so many feeding problems (even with HB ammo) that Diamondback replaced my 1st one with another one that was just as bad. A friend had the same experience with an early Sig P238 - I think both of those guns' problems have since been corrected but my experience has cured me of two things: I've sworn off of the .380 caliber altogether and I NEVER buy a new model gun. It has to be out for a year or more with good comments from users before I'll consider it.

 

[StockKahr]

Allow me to add some factual evidence. Our local department here in Indianapolis (IMPD) which has over 1700 Officers, just pulled the Kahr .380 from it's approved off duty list. They cited numerous feeding issues with the Federal JHP ammo including stove pipe jams and FTF's, and this was an issue that the department Armorer's had been watching for over a year. On a personal note, I had a PM-9 which I loved the feel of, but well after the 200 round break in period and a polish of the feed ramp, would barely feed FMJ's, so it went bye bye. Just an FYI

LD

IMPD has to approve what you can carry off duty? Is that common among law enforcement agencies? I confess to ignorance on the subject. Is the PM9 approved?

 

[Lawdawg45]

IMPD has to approve what you can carry off duty? Is that common among law enforcement agencies? I confess to ignorance on the subject. Is the PM9 approved?

Yes, and that's the case with most departments. The PM-9 is currently approved, but the rumor is that all Kahr's will be removed. In fairness I'll say that the Ruger LCP is also on the hit list, as well as Keltecs.

LD

 

[F350Lawman]

The NYPD yanked Kahrs from what I hear, and that is not a good sign. I am retired for 11 years but the info. I got was that it was trigger related not reliability. In fairness, a Keltec would never make the NYPD approved list to start with nor would the LCR/LCP I believe. Not that it makes them bad, but the NYPD gun gurus are so restrictive its crazy.

Yes I hear what many people say about Kahrs cost vs. reliability out of the box and I agree. The most frustrating part is that it is such a great idea and terrific package, but a few more months R&D could have made OUTSTANDING. Its really a shame..now I have to do the final steps of the process I am going to try another 200 rounds, at least its an excuse to shoot.

On the inexpensive gun note, I think the Taurus Millenium Pros are outstanding. My PT145 is as a great gun. Sort of a poor mna'd Glock if you ask me. At $325+/-Gun is on the low end of the Keltec - Kahr ends of the pricing spectrum.

As far as one posters comments about using it and "losing" it (expensive vs. inexpensive) during the investigation...if there is a prolonged investigation, sadly that will probably be the last of your worries

 

[usp9]

The NYPD yanked Kahrs from what I hear, and that is not a good sign. I am retired for 11 years but the info. I got was that it was trigger related not reliability.

The Kahr K9 was removed from the NYPD acceptable firearm list because the trigger is lighter than the required 12# called for, and Kahr refused to make the trigger that heavy. Reliability wasn't a cause.

 

[F350Lawman]

Yes... they don't like any gun that doesn't leave you with a nice "forearm pump" after a good range session! My Ruger SP101 (SPNY actually I think is their version 38/no spur) must have a +/-15lbs trigger pull! It does cut down on ND I think, there is no way to pull this trigger unless your really...really mean it.

 

[Armybrat]

Actually if I were to rely on choosing a brand of gun from reading the forums for every make of firearm, I would just buy a crossbow.

My early Kahr PM9 has never had a problem, and my CW45 is running fine after the breakin.

 

[Paul7]

I'm 0 for 2 with Kahr, IMHO the steel frames are fine but the polymer's are iffy. I now carry a Ruger LCR and Kel-tec .380, both of which are great.