Kel-tec SU16c

[Godsgunman]

I had one and fully regret getting rid of it. Pretty hard to find them now. Very light yet fun and easy to shoot. I was stupid back then...

 

[TTv2]

I'm late to this topic, but the SU16 has been an interesting rifle for me ever since I learned of it. I don't expect it to ever be as accurate as an AR, but if it can be as good as or better than a Mini 14, yet be 2 lbs less, use AR mags, and be able to fold into a more compact size, that's a win.

Someone above mentioned the RDB and its variants taking much meaning out of the SU16 and there may be some truth to that, but what wasn't mentioned is price: the RDB costs twice what an SU16 does. I would expect a rifle that costs double what another does to feel better, so at a certain price point the SU16 can still be a viable compact rifle that can be thrown into a backpack, briefcase, or some other bag and be ready to go in seconds.

Since I've now reached the comparison to other rifles already and made price a focus, this is where the discussion on the AR can't be ignored because the cost of budget AR's has drastically come down over the years to a point where they have matched the price or been lower than the SU16. I can understand why people would opt for a more proven platform at the same price that has an endless supply of easily sourced spare parts and modification, but I can also understand where people would opt for the lighter weight and folding ability of the SU16.

The same could be said for the Sub2000 vs the other PCC's out there.

If prices would come down to around $400 I would probably get the SU16CA or B. The B is an 18.5" pencil barrel that weighs 4.5lbs, the CA is a thick 16" threaded barrel that weighs a bit more. I'd definitely like to compare them side by side, but there isn't a gun store within 500 miles of me that would have both.

 

[TTv2]

seems like a few features would keep it off banned states lists. No shoulder thing that goes up, etc.

The Anti's have smartened up, they're past features and are now on a full on in support of a semi automatic ban. This line of thinking, the same reasons why lots of people still like the Ruger Mini 14, is no longer valid.

With the pistol brace ruling I am looking for a bullpup to fill a roll. I checked one of these out the other day. It was very compact and peaked my interest so I need to go down the proverbial rabbit hole to study more.

Years before the ATF pulled their recent shenanigans I was supportive of the RDB because it is the cheapest factory made bullpup that works and I'd rather have a full 16 inch barrel bullpup with a 26 inch OAL than a 7 inch AR pistol.

 

[zaitcev]

seems like a few features would keep it off banned states lists. No shoulder thing that goes up, etc.

I bought the SU back when I lived in California. So there's that. I didn't want to deal with Mini-14 magazines. However, that was more than 15 years ago. Now that FightLite SCR exists, I would bought that instead. I think the extra expense is worth it. The KelTec RDB Survival is another option.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I had the SU16c

I think the C model is the best, under folding stock with the front sight on the gas tube.

I sold mine for more than I paid for it in grad school when I got on an AR-15 building spree. I really regret it and miss the rifle. They are so light and handy. It's a camp/ranch rifle more than a combat gun. But most people don't need the compromise of a combat gun for utility work.

Funny story about mine though: I was driving back through rural Pennsylvania when I was in grad school. Stopped at an old gun store I used to frequent, but it got bought out by a new tactical owner that remodeled and restocked the store. It happened to be their grand opening weekend when I swung by.

They had the SU16 on display front and center with a "Brand new, $550" sign on it. I picked it up, and clearly saw wear and tear. Not bad, but clearly used.

I asked the owner, "you sure this is new, there's gunk all in it?". Since we were in ear shot of a crowded store, he nervously laughed and opened his computer and verified it was, in fact, used.

A few of the local guys started busting his chops, again, on grand opening.

He looked at me, looked around, and said "you want it, how about a discount?" I offered $300, he countered at $400. We agreed to $350 or $375, can't remember.

Either way, he clearly made sure everyone knew I bought it and that he gave me a great deal. I still think it was an awesome deal at the time. I think roughly 2016 or 2017.

Basically I guess I bought a "shame rifle" at a "guilt price".

 

[daniel craig]

With the pistol brace ruling I am looking for a bullpup to fill a roll. I checked one of these out the other day. It was very compact and peaked my interest so I need to go down the proverbial rabbit hole to study more.

They're perfect for states that don't like AR type rifles. I'm considering getting one some day.

 

[MachIVshooter]

With the pistol brace ruling I am looking for a bullpup to fill a roll. I checked one of these out the other day. It was very compact and peaked my interest so I need to go down the proverbial rabbit hole to study more.

Whether the hunter or standard, the RDB with a 17" barrel is shorter than a 10.5" AR

I recently picked up the standard RDB 17, and it's actually quieter than I expected as a host. The can is our Five By Five, a 1.6x5" 5.56 suppressor

 

[WestKentucky]

My best friend had one when we were fresh out of college and living together in a cheap 2 bedroom apartment (party pad). It was light and the gun was enough fun. ARs were still a bit steep on pricing then so neither of us had one. A few friends did have ARs though and we shot the su16 alongside the AR guns a lot. Seemed that the AR guns generally had the edge in accuracy but when we went on our various adventures very few people had a rifle handy as most are not very handy on a kayak or on a sport bike ATV. I rode a Honda 400ex and quite often had the su16 across my back in a Fender guitar case and he had a tent strapped to the rack of whatever he was riding that week. Not sure how I always ended up with the guns, but seemed to be the case. I had a nice ride and very rarely went bottom up though so I guess it worked. I remember one trip we got into a bad spot with some unexpected weather and spoiled food in the cooler. The SU16 provided us food quickly and easily and we paddled out the next morning.

He traded the gun away for an Sig pistol of some sort. I got into ARs. I would not mind one of the su16 guns though. It had plenty potential, and was much better in its role than I would have guessed. I would prefer it over a mini14.

OP looks like you got a good enough deal. Hope it works out well for you.

 

[35 Whelen]

If that was done with the factory iron sights that pretty darn good for 200 yards. I’ve looked at them before but might give them another look.

Has anyone tried hand loading for one of these? I don’t see many around but everyone I see with one has liked them.

OK, so I had a few minutes today to shoot the SU16A again at 200 yds.. Last time I did it was just to get it close at 200 yds. I though I'd remembered it shooting 4"-5" groups, but in retrospect that was probably a bit optimistic. The load I shot today was 26.0 gr. of WC-846 and a bulk 62 gr. FMJBT bought from a now-defunct company called Golden West Brass.

I fired the first 5-shot group and things started out pretty good but then fell apart-



It occurred to me that the barrel is hardly supported at all and I wondered if that might be part of the problem. On a whim, I whittled down some wooden wedges and wedged them between the barrel and the gas tube.



I fired at the original target and the bullets centered much better, although they struck at the top of the black. So I painted the target, raised the front sight 1/2 turn and fired again and got two shots 3" or so apart. I then lowered the front sight 1/4 turn and fired five more.



Much better!! I looked through my load log and these bullets grouped 2"-2.5" @ 100 yds. from my 20" AR, so really the KelTec didn't do bad at all. Tomorrow I plan to shoot some of my 69 gr. Sierra MatchKing handloads through it. Also, I'd like to find something a little better than pine wedges. I'm thinking maybe some split heater hose, hydraulic hose or fuel line might be a more permanent solution.

At any rate, I'm really stoked to have maybe found a way to make my SU shoot better.

Stay tuned.

35W

 

[Rex B]

I've had a SU16A for years, plan to keep it. It's a good truck gun, and when we do a road trip it rides along. Fun to shoot, and I love the mag storage in the stock.

35W, I like your barrel stabilizer wedge - thanks!. I may look into making something permanent to solve that problem.

 

[35 Whelen]

I've had a SU16A for years, plan to keep it. It's a good truck gun, and when we do a road trip it rides along. Fun to shoot, and I love the mag storage in the stock.

35W, I like your barrel stabilizer wedge - thanks!. I may look into making something permanent to solve that problem.

Thanks. If you find something that works as a permanent wedge, pass the idea along.

35W

 

[TTv2]

My best friend had one when we were fresh out of college and living together in a cheap 2 bedroom apartment (party pad). It was light and the gun was enough fun. ARs were still a bit steep on pricing then so neither of us had one. A few friends did have ARs though and we shot the su16 alongside the AR guns a lot. Seemed that the AR guns generally had the edge in accuracy but when we went on our various adventures very few people had a rifle handy as most are not very handy on a kayak or on a sport bike ATV. I rode a Honda 400ex and quite often had the su16 across my back in a Fender guitar case and he had a tent strapped to the rack of whatever he was riding that week. Not sure how I always ended up with the guns, but seemed to be the case. I had a nice ride and very rarely went bottom up though so I guess it worked. I remember one trip we got into a bad spot with some unexpected weather and spoiled food in the cooler. The SU16 provided us food quickly and easily and we paddled out the next morning.

He traded the gun away for an Sig pistol of some sort. I got into ARs. I would not mind one of the su16 guns though. It had plenty potential, and was much better in its role than I would have guessed. I would prefer it over a mini14.

OP looks like you got a good enough deal. Hope it works out well for you.

The 00s sure were nice, weren't they? Which SU16 variant did you have? A, B, C, or CA?

I hate to bring it up, but you've had a lot of experience with both of them, but where do you see the pros/cons of the SU16 over an AR? Obviously in the role you were using it for your adventuring it was excellent and I'm sure as a home defense rifle it would do as well as any budget AR can, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on the comparisons between the two.

The more I keep hearing other previous or current owners talk about them, the more interested I'm becoming in the SU16.

 

[zaitcev]

I hate to bring it up, but you've had a lot of experience with both of them, but where do you see the pros/cons of the SU16 over an AR?

Pros of SU over AR:

- Long stroke piston action stays cleaner longer.

- Lighter than most ARs, although we have modern ARs that are lighter. In fact I built one just a week ago, using Faxon pencil barrel, KP-16 lower, Atlas One handguard. It came to 2.2 kg. My SU-16CA checks in at 2.7 kg. However, usual ARs with extending stocks, unnecessarily fat barrels, and aluminum lowers weigh more than 3 kg.

Cons of SU versus AR:

- Always overgassed for reliability.

- Has no forward accessory space. Only has a short rail on the receiver for traditional telescopic sight. Slings, bipods, lights: everything takes much effort, as well as adds extra weight. On ARs these days it's MLOK everything. On SU, you have to add a mounting interface first.

- The field stripping process is stupidly involved. The reassembly process is a luck of a draw (even worse if you have a dust cover).

- Vulnerable when folded.

 

[Styx]

Why not just get the Keltec RDC?

The SU16C is 25.5" closed in pistol format and 35.5” open stock with 16" barrel.

The RDB is 27.3" overall length with 17.3" barrel. All RDBs are legal in all 50 states I believe without having to buy a special model.

All three firearms below can fit into a duffle bag, bookbag, or tennis racket case.

1. RDB with 17.2" barrel.
2. PSA build with 10.5" barrel.
3. AR SBR build with a 8" barrel.

Someone above mentioned the RDB and its variants taking much meaning out of the SU16 and there may be some truth to that, but what wasn't mentioned is price: the RDB costs twice what an SU16 does. I would expect a rifle that costs double what another does to feel better, so at a certain price point the SU16 can still be a viable compact rifle that can be thrown into a backpack, briefcase, or some other bag and be ready to go in seconds.

You get what you pay for IMHO. The SU16 seems more like a gimmick or light usage fun thowaway rifle that will not holdup to any real abuse or hard usage just like a Sub 2000k V2 (which I own in 40s&w). The KSG feels more robust and better quality, has a longer barrel, is just about the same length as the SU16c folded, is significantly shorter than the SU16c's overall length, and it's ready to fire as a rifle immediately instead of having to take the extra step of unfolding the stock.

Also, if cost and storage is an issue, one can just as easily pull the pins and separate the at receivers for storage. It literally takes 5 to 10 seconds to pin them together again, and you will have a better rifle for around the same price that's has huge aftermarket support and knowledge base. Heck, you could install a folding stock on the AR15, and/or even a quick detach barrel system as well.

 

[gotboostvr]

By-golly, we made it 20 posts before the first 'The AR is better." post.

If you get a chance, I'd like to see a pic of your AR build folded to an overall length of ~24". Also, where on your AR do you store the extra mags?

35W

I like the little KelTec's, but in the spirit of argument, this old build of mine gets pretty close to your requirements:



It's got a spare magazine in a pouch on the buttstock.

 

[TwistingInTheWind]

Why not just get the Keltec RDC?

...because the guy was selling an SU16.

I already have an AK with a folding stock which could "almost" fit the bill, but it is MUCH heavier.
I wouldn't consider bringing the AK to hiking to camp or on a kayak trip.
I still need to get some more experience with it but so far it fills a role for me.

I am glad to hear the good things about the SU16, but even more glad NOT hear people saying, "Run away from the model."

 

[TTv2]

I like the little KelTec's, but in the spirit of argument, this old build of mine gets pretty close to your requirements:

View attachment 1136074

At what price?

 

[Styx]

At what price?

Approx $570 pretax and shipping from PSA if you buy the upper and lower separately. $150 to add the capability to an AR15 you already own.

Cheaper than what I'm currently seeing the SU16C go for NIB, but it will be approx 2lb heavier.

 

[Styx]

...because the guy was selling an SU16.

I already have an AK with a folding stock which could "almost" fit the bill, but it is MUCH heavier.
I wouldn't consider bringing the AK to hiking to camp or on a kayak trip.
I still need to get some more experience with it but so far it fills a role for me.

I am glad to hear the good things about the SU16, but even more glad NOT hear people saying, "Run away from the model."

I just realized that you were buying used. If you can get it for $500 or less, go for it!

 

[gotboostvr]

At what price?

I was about $450 into the rifle (including the LaRue trigger, but not optics) picked up the folder adapter used for another $75.

I did use a pencil barrel to keep weight down some.

Oh I forgot the muzzle brake added an extra $80, but I only added that to run my can on it.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Someone above mentioned the RDB and its variants taking much meaning out of the SU16 and there may be some truth to that, but what wasn't mentioned is price: the RDB costs twice what an SU16 does. I would expect a rifle that costs double what another does to feel better, so at a certain price point the SU16 can still be a viable compact rifle

The SU-16 is hovering in the $650-$700 range now while RDB variants are $900-$950.

So the RDB is still a good bit more expensive, but in the current market, a lot less than double (and a lot more available).

Doesn't mean the SU16 should be overlooked if one can find it and it fits their needs, but it's not the budget friendly sub-$500 new rifle in a sea of $1,000+ ARs that it was 15-20 years ago, so it's appeal today is more limited. Probably why the availability sucks, since KelTec focuses their manufacturing capacity on popular items.