Keltecs new 14 shot bullpup shotgun (neostead revived!)

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Hanzo581 said:
I don't understand Kel-tec, they have to be making money, why don't they expand their manufacturing facilities? Surely if they don't want to front the cost some investors would.
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They're privately owned and they seem to subsist entirely on consumer sales. To my knowledge they haven't had any of their guns fielded by any government agency anywhere. I imagine it's hard to scale up production (or go public) when you're small and don't have those big, regular orders to rely on. They also don't target the hunter market at all, which probably cuts down on their potential volume quite a bit.
 
>> Cearbhallain

I just found that thread on GlockTalk.... you were right; guy has no idea what he's talking about.:banghead::banghead:
 
Exhibit A

If someone breaks into someones house and gets shot, that homeowner should be nominated for citizen of the year as far as I'm concerned. But we all know that a civil suit usually follows a shooting, justified or not. If you used this shotgun to defend yourself, you better have a very good attorney or a very understanding jury.
 
Would be fun to have, I just need to hold one to get a sense of its sturdiness before laying down the greenbacks
 
Because ATF, at its whim, can and has declared certain semi-automatic* shotguns as destructive devices, even though they are mechanically no different than "sporting use" self-loading shotguns.
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- JShirley

You are correct, but I blame Congress rather than the executive branch.
The law gives several definitions for "destructive device", one of which is anything above .50-caliber "except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes".

(Terrible grammar here by the way. "Which" should come after a comma, and implies that a shotgun is recognized as suitable for sporting by definition! The New Deal hoplophobes who wrote that legislation obviously meant to say "except for a shotgun or shotgun shell that the Secretary ...", but I doubt my nitpick would stand up in court.)

The point is, all gauge guns can be classified as destructive devices if the BATFE wants to. Most are not, so in a sense the BATFE is being pretty moderate. If they were truly pro-gun, they could classify all shotguns as legit, simply by putting the ordinary shooter's definition of "shotgun" (as opposed to "anti-tank rifle") into a reg. No one who has seen a Lahti anti-tank rifle is going to mix it up with a 10-gauge goose gun, but they are both technically about 20mm in bore size. I'd say if it can properly function with non-metallic-hulled shells, it's a shotgun and not a DD ... but I'm not the ATF.

Funny that rifling never made an administrative difference here. ATR are obviously rifled and until a few decades ago, shotguns were smoothbore by definition. The ATF never put its foot down, probably because rifled shotguns are hunting weapons par excellence; fighting shotguns almost always smoothbore (though the SPAS-12, which caused so many to have a spaz in the 1980s, did IIRC have rifled tubes available).

Anyway, long story short, the problem was caused by Congress in 1934. I hope (and believe) the NRA and GOA look closely at appointees to BATFE, since they have the power to smash shotgun sales (except .410s) at the stroke of a pen.

* Also I'm not sure autoloading makes any difference here, under the law. Probably the BATFE is harder on semi-autos, purely out of prejudice, but they could be just as hard on single shots and manual repeaters. Isn't the M203 just a big shotgun anyway? :)
 
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The way the "Destructive Device" clause is written, you'd think the Secretary would have to individually name the shotguns and shotshells that were generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes, instead of individually naming the ones that aren't.

If I were to fall back on the lowest common denominator, then I'd say that the legislative intent was to exempt shotguns and shotshells as neither finds a place in front-line military arms. But, due to sharp lawyering (remember this was back when someone was asking that what the meaning if "is" is) the meaning got twisted from the intent to fit the prejudice of the day.
 
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My husband visited Oleg last month and had the chance to play with one of these shotguns during his visit. FWIW he's left-handed so he really appreciated how easy it was for him to use and reload. Here's his report of it from ARFCOM (user Hard_Rock):
Okay guys, here's the skinny on the gun I got to play with.

1. It feeds from two 7 round magazine tubes. There is a switch that allows the shooter to choose which tube is being fed from.

2. The gun feeds and ejects from the bottom. It is totally ambi.

3. Disassembly isn't too bad. The gun is well thought out and designed and feels quite solid. Retention and shouldering are quick, simple and solid. The slide handle has a rail that begs for a VFG. The action is sickingly fast to work in operation and the gun balances incredibly well.

Overall, this gun will be a huge success for Kel-Tec. I've offered to work with them on a couple of areas that I personally see as areas that would do well with slight modification. We'll see if they take me up on the offer or not.

My only real complaints on the gun are where the slide release is located (but I understand why they put it where they did and I won't fault them on it) and the fact that it is chambered in 2 3/4 shells only.

As a combat shotgun, this gun will kick tail. I fully expect to see it in some major movie productions just because of it's looks. Unlike a lot of movie prop designs, this one works and works well.

This gun is probably the absolute best shotgun for close in home defense you'll ever see. It's short, has a respectable capacity and just looks mean. It feels very good and would be easy to sling and carry. The gun is made from steel and composite material but the steel is not your cheap thin crap. It's good heavy weight sheet steel.

If you guys have any other questions, I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability. As Bubbles said, I want two of these for home defense. I heard the MSRP might be in the $450 to $550 range. I don't know how accurate that is but if they sell these at that price, they won't be able to keep up with the demand.

Those of you that know me know that I don't impress easily when it comes to guns. This gun really made a good impression on me and I can't wait to get one.
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Same in GA. Someone killed or injured in the commission of a crime cannot sue, nor can their family or other parties on their behalf.
 
But we all know that a civil suit usually follows a shooting, justified or not.
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Some people beat me to this but we do not all know that because tort laws can vary significantly state to state and a number of states have tort immunity for such situations if it is a good shoot.
 
I've been following this thread for a couple days without comment, but I have to finally say that this thing has shot to the top of my wish list. I just wish Keltec could get their production increased to a point where it could even halfway keep up with demand.
 
Legal Definition of Semi-Automatic

Wait a minute, now that I think about it I have to admit that I don't even know if the Striker-12 and the Streetsweeper are, under the law, semi-automatic. They are spring-advanced, manually-loaded revolvers - they don't use gas or recoil energy to clear & load their chambers. They could still be semi-automatic, if semi-automatic means (legally) "using something other than muscle power to ready the weapon for a second shot"; I would balk at calling them autoloaders.

In any case I think they anything the BATFE reviles could be called a DD, semi-auto or not.
 
For me, this is completely going to depend on the price point. I have little real use for this other than it looks awesome. If they sell for $500ish, I'm preordering. If they sell for $700, I'll wait till I have heard the bugs are worked out. If they sell for $1000, I'll skip. It all comes down to the price for me. At $500, I can't see passing this up.
 
If it's $500, I'm almost certainly buying one.

If it's much more than that I'll probably just wait and see what the Ruger version looks like.:rolleyes:
 
I have been trying to get the wife on board for buying another shotgun, primarily a HD dedicated device to compliment my multi-tasked Wingmaster. Hopefully they set the price right and we can agree to get this. Man, that is one sweet concept and hopefully KT can meet the demand. I'll tell you this much, I think I'll hold my anticipation for the next big thing from KT rather than listen to Ruger's hype.
 
I have to admit, I AM impressed so far. Gonna hold off on that 870 i was considering if these pull through reliably.
 
I'm afraid I have to have one of these.
I'll even knock a couple birds out of the sky with one to prove it's "sporting" (with slugs :evil:)
 
If it's priced in the ballpark of a 930SPX or 1100 I will pick one up, otherwise I will go with the more established designs in the market already. Even though those are semis.
 
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