Kibler "Colonial" build thread

[.38 Special]

I've been in love with flintlocks since I was a young teenager, but have never had a really high quality one. After years of "almost" I finally ordered a Kibler kit. They had one on clearance, with really nice maple and a slight bark inclusion. After they looked at the stock more closely they determined it had other serious defects, so offered to select a different one. Today they sent some pictures:





I'm jaded enough to not generally get excited about new guns anymore, but I'm really looking forward to this project, and will try to keep pictures coming as I progress through it.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

To really enjoy a flintlock, one does need quality. People manage with lesser guns, and are often happy with them, but often struggle with them. Kibler has certainly cracked the egg as far as offering a high quality rifle, at a reasonable price. But it is true, a man can't afford a cheap doctor, lawyer, or flintlock rifle. Welcome to the club. You will learn to love a high-quality flintlock. Beats cursing one that you can never get to work perfectly, or is ugly or unbalanced or too heavy. !!!! Looking forward to the thread.

My Jeager, built by Birddog6/Keith Lysle of Alabama. This has never, after many years, ever failed to fire, or miss-fired, or just flashed the pan. With flinlocks, quality counts.

 

[hawg]

I can look at it and tell it's above my paygrade.

 

[troy fairweather]

I hope to have the money this year for a kibler kit, not sure if I want a woodsrunner or colonial yet but really hope Jim is working on a flowler next. They are without a doubt the best mz kits ever made.

 

[Risky buisness]

Sweet. The wood looks amazing. I congratulate you on your choice of a flinter, percussion caps are a passing fad anyway.

 

[kje54]

I hope to have the money this year for a kibler kit, not sure if I want a woodsrunner or colonial yet but really hope Jim is working on a flowler next. They are without a doubt the best mz kits ever made.

Get the Colonial with the smoothbore barrel and you have an instant fowler. Granted it's not a 60+ caliber but it works fine as a 28 gauge.

 

[.38 Special]

I can look at it and tell it's above my paygrade.

I've finally hit that place in life where I realize I've tossed away a lot of money on countless examples of "second best" that never scratched the itch. Or put another way, if I had back all the money I've spent buying and fixing Italian flintlocks, I could get myself a pretty fancy rifle!

 

[.38 Special]

To really enjoy a flintlock, one does need quality. People manage with lesser guns, and are often happy with them, but often struggle with them. Kibler has certainly cracked the egg as far as offering a high quality rifle, at a reasonable price. But it is true, a man can't afford a cheap doctor, lawyer, or flintlock rifle. Welcome to the club. You will learn to love a high-quality flintlock. Beats cursing one that you can never get to work perfectly, or is ugly or unbalanced or too heavy. !!!! Looking forward to the thread.
View attachment 1157841
My Jeager, built by Birddog6/Keith Lysle of Alabama. This has never, after many years, ever failed to fire, or miss-fired, or just flashed the pan. With flinlocks, quality counts.

You are a significant part of this. I've been drooling over your rifle for quite some time and finally said to myself "There is literally no reason not to get one for yourself, fool!"

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I said the same thing about my Ferguson. Life is too short to dance with ugly women.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Life is too short to dance with ugly women.

Well...if you want to be happy for the rest of your life...she may be ugly...but she sure can cook!!!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

You are a significant part of this. I've been drooling over your rifle for quite some time and finally said to myself "There is literally no reason not to get one for yourself, fool!"

No you will never regret it. My Jeager was above my pay-grade, but I took the plunge. Now many years later, that money would be long gone anyway, but I still have the rifle. And it's just as special to me as the day I got it, even more so after three deer and a bear. And the many many miles of trekking the wilderness. Kibler has really opened some doors. Before the Kiblers, such a rifle would be twice the price and more to have one built. If a guy really wanted a good quality flint rifle, he'd be a fool not to take advantage of what Kibler is offering now. In five years, the money will be of no consequence.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Get the Colonial with the smoothbore barrel and you have an instant fowler. Granted it's not a 60+ caliber but it works fine as a 28 gauge.

Well, not quite the same. If one (a Kibler fowler) is coming out, I'd wait. I'm surprised it isn't out yet, as the fowlers are very popular. However, getting a rifle first makes sense. I got my Brown Bess first, thinking it was a "do everything gun". But a smoothbore is not. Yeah yeah...I know...but they are truly not, if you'd like to shoot past 75 yards. They "will" do both, shot and ball, but accuracy with a ball is limited. It's best to have both, if I could do it over, I'd go rifle first, then a smooth bore. I had to let a very nice black bear go, with my Bess, that was just a hair out of range, that would have been an easy shot with a rifle. And that's when I started thinking about a rifle.

 

[hawg]

Well...if you want to be happy for the rest of your life...she may be ugly...but she sure can cook!!!

My wife was anything but ugly and man could that woman cook.

If a guy really wanted a good quality flint rifle, he'd be a fool not to take advantage of what Kibler is offering now. In five years, the money will be of no consequence.

If I just had the money I'd probably try one but I know I'd just ruin a fine stick of wood. I already know I'd never find anybody to finish it out for me.

 

[JeffG]

That's beautiful wood. Nice score!

 

[kje54]

Well, not quite the same. If one (a Kibler fowler) is coming out, I'd wait. I'm surprised it isn't out yet, as the fowlers are very popular. However, getting a rifle first makes sense. I got my Brown Bess first, thinking it was a "do everything gun". But a smoothbore is not. Yeah yeah...I know...but they are truly not, if you'd like to shoot past 75 yards. They "will" do both, shot and ball, but accuracy with a ball is limited. It's best to have both, if I could do it over, I'd go rifle first, then a smooth bore. I had to let a very nice black bear go, with my Bess, that was just a hair out of range, that would have been an easy shot with a rifle. And that's when I started thinking about a rifle.

The Bess was and is a notoriously inaccurate smoothbore simply due to it's design and official usage, it makes a terrible choice for hunting. You would have been MUCH better off with a NW Trade gun or a Tulle, they are quite accurate out to nearly 100 yards if loaded properly. A smaller 28 gauge (54/58 cal) smoothbore is even more accurate when properly loaded.

 

[Armored farmer]

I've been in love with flintlocks since I was a young teenager, but have never had a really high quality one. After years of "almost" I finally ordered a Kibler kit. They had one on clearance, with really nice maple and a slight bark inclusion. After they looked at the stock more closely they determined it had other serious defects, so offered to select a different one. Today they sent some pictures:

View attachment 1157837

View attachment 1157839

I'm jaded enough to not generally get excited about new guns anymore, but I'm really looking forward to this project, and will try to keep pictures coming as I progress through it.

That is a beautiful stock.
I should make a beautiful rifle.
I have been in contact with Kibler hoping for a smoothbore kit. They say one is coming.

ETA
The rifle maker that built my rifle has made over 100 rifles and smoothbore over the years. He says that the kibler kits are so easy anyone can build one.
I may do try one soon. That stock you have @.38 Special is truly spectacular.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

My wife was anything but ugly and man could that woman cook


If I just had the money I'd probably try one but I know I'd just ruin a fine stick of wood. I already know I'd never find anybody to finish it out for me.

So Hawg, what is your bucket list rifle?

 

[troy fairweather]

That is a beautiful stock.
I should make a beautiful rifle.
I have been in contact with Kibler hoping for a smoothbore kit. They say one is coming.

ETA
The rifle maker that built my rifle has made over 100 rifles and smoothbore over the years. He says that the kibler kits are so easy anyone can build one.
I may do try one soon. That stock you have @.38 Special is truly spectacular.

Jim has made the woodsrunner even better and easier to build then the smr and colonial rifles, from what he said it almost doesn't need any finish work on wood and .metal. Jim said he wants to do a hawken as much as I'd like a Fowler from him a hawken would be super cool Especially since he said he would make it like the real ones. Hope for a full stock to.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

The Bess was and is a notoriously inaccurate smoothbore simply due to it's design and official usage, it makes a terrible choice for hunting. You would have been MUCH better off with a NW Trade gun or a Tulle, they are quite accurate out to nearly 100 yards if loaded properly. A smaller 28 gauge (54/58 cal) smoothbore is even more accurate when properly loaded.

Oh oh! I have to agree to respectfully disagree. !!! Note happy face! The Brown Bess is not inaccurate. I'd say all smoothbores, or one smooth bore is as accurate as another. Regardless as to whether the barrel is in a NWT or a Musket. Both loaded properly, I don't think a Tulle or NWT will shoot any more accurately than a Brown Bess musket.

A smoothbore will hit a man out to 100 yards, but you can't place your shot precisely, in the heart-lung area of a game animal, for hunting at that range. You can hit the animal, such as a deer or bear, but it won't be placed well as with a rifle. Or, you may miss entirely. Again, effective against people, as if you hit your man in the arm or leg, he's out of the fight. Hit that deer in the butt or leg, he may run off and be lost.

You won't get all your shots into a paper plate at 100 yards. Herein lies the reason. When the ball does not spin, it will veer off course when velocity drops to a certain level. And round balls slow down fast. Usually around 70 yards. All things considered, around 60 yards, and especially at 50 yards and closer, a smooth bore will shoot with a rifle. At 70 to 75, a smooth bore shooting it's best, load development producing the best accuracy possible from a specific gun, will hit a paper plate every time at that range. But for hunting, I think that is maximum range.

The advantage of a "smooth rifle" is the sights. However, rifle sights won't keep the ball from going left, right, up or down after "around" 70 yards. The faster you can start a ball in a smooth bore, the longer it will retain it's velocity, generally speaking. Indeed, in a thick rifle barrel, (but smooth) one can load it very heavy, increase velocity and increase rang, but...enough difference to make a difference? It's rifling that makes the difference that is enough difference. !!!! Did that make sense. ?

My Bess is most accurate with 140 grains of 1fg Swiss. Accuracy drops off with lighter charges. For sure, to squeeze as much accuracy as possible out of a smooth bore, a lot of experimentation is involved, and what works in one gun might not shoot so good in another. My Brown Bess has rifle sights. (but "period correct")

So yeah, I'm absolutely open to friendly debate, but the Brown Bess is not an inaccurate smooth bore. Mine sure isn't. I've got three-inch groups at 50 yards. It is as accurate as any other. But all smoothbores have the same range limitation, because the ball does not spin.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

My wife was anything but ugly and man could that woman cook.

Don't cha remember that old song: "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife" ???

 

[Jim Watson]

A local gunsmith's personal guns are muzzleloaders. He showed a 25 yard target shot with a smoothbore. It would have been a pretty good group with a modern pistol.

An infantry officer of the day said: "Unless it is exceedingly ill bored, a musket will strike a man at 80 yards, perhaps a hundred. But at 200 yards I am as safe as though I were standing on the moon."

If I were a colonist, I probably could not get eyeglasses, so a light handy fusil or fowler would have been as effective with ball or shot and a lot handier to carry around than a Kaintuck crowbar. A guy was showing his fowler at a BPCR shoot. He had two, one was an original, a real high end gun in fine condition that he had hunted with. The other was a copy except stocked with a longer length of pull to suit his build.

 

[hawg]

So Hawg, what is your bucket list rifle?

A Sharps 45-110. I'll never have one but that's the one I want the most

Don't cha remember that old song: "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife" ???

Yeah I remember it. I guess that's why I'm alone now.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

"Unless it is exceedingly ill bored,

Right, and I'm sure some were. After a couple of bayonet charges, I bet there was a few bent barrels on the Brown Bess. !!

 

[kje54]

Oh oh! I have to agree to respectfully disagree. !!! Note happy face! The Brown Bess is not inaccurate. I'd say all smoothbores, or one smooth bore is as accurate as another. Regardless as to whether the barrel is in a NWT or a Musket. Both loaded properly, I don't think a Tulle or NWT will shoot any more accurately than a Brown Bess musket.

A smoothbore will hit a man out to 100 yards, but you can't place your shot precisely, in the heart-lung area of a game animal, for hunting at that range. You can hit the animal, such as a deer or bear, but it won't be placed well as with a rifle. Or, you may miss entirely. Again, effective against people, as if you hit your man in the arm or leg, he's out of the fight. Hit that deer in the butt or leg, he may run off and be lost.

You won't get all your shots into a paper plate at 100 yards. Herein lies the reason. When the ball does not spin, it will veer off course when velocity drops to a certain level. And round balls slow down fast. Usually around 70 yards. All things considered, around 60 yards, and especially at 50 yards and closer, a smooth bore will shoot with a rifle. At 70 to 75, a smooth bore shooting it's best, load development producing the best accuracy possible from a specific gun, will hit a paper plate every time at that range. But for hunting, I think that is maximum range.

The advantage of a "smooth rifle" is the sights. However, rifle sights won't keep the ball from going left, right, up or down after "around" 70 yards. The faster you can start a ball in a smooth bore, the longer it will retain it's velocity, generally speaking. Indeed, in a thick rifle barrel, (but smooth) one can load it very heavy, increase velocity and increase rang, but...enough difference to make a difference? It's rifling that makes the difference that is enough difference. !!!! Did that make sense. ?

My Bess is most accurate with 140 grains of 1fg Swiss. Accuracy drops off with lighter charges. For sure, to squeeze as much accuracy as possible out of a smooth bore, a lot of experimentation is involved, and what works in one gun might not shoot so good in another. My Brown Bess has rifle sights. (but "period correct")

So yeah, I'm absolutely open to friendly debate, but the Brown Bess is not an inaccurate smooth bore. Mine sure isn't. I've got three-inch groups at 50 yards. It is as accurate as any other. But all smoothbores have the same range limitation, because the ball does not spin.

Considering you're going with personal experience and I'm basing mine on "hearsay" I'll have to bow to your assessment.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Yeah I remember it. I guess that's why I'm alone now.

Dang it Hawg. I'm still with ya. At quite a distance, but I'm there. Stay strong.