Kibler "Colonial" build thread

Darn fine shooting, would be deadly to any deer inside 150 yards. Polishing the bore with Scotch Brite will help with cutting patches. Forget it you said what patch material you used, and what patch lube.
 
.38 Special said:
So, range day...

The thing is perfectly reliable and more accurate than me, at least with irons. Averages about 3" for three shot groups at 100 yards. I took a picture of one of the "bragging groups".

View attachment 1166340

Didn't measure it, but those are 1" squares, so a bit under 2".

Started with 60 grains Swiss 2f and went up to 90. The rifle liked 70 and 80 grains equally well, so I filed and drifted the sights for 70, which took just one try. Nice when that happens.
With a clean bore and a 60 grain charge, patches showed some cutting from the rifling.




View attachment 1166349


This isn't unusual with my customary .010 patches, and as long as accuracy is good it doesn't bother me. As the barrel fouled and the charges increased, I started noticing little black smudges in the dirt. I didn't make the connection until I saw one smoking. With 90 grains of powder, the gun blows patches as badly as I've ever seen, turning them into these smoky little caterpillars.

View attachment 1166350

So @Ugly Sauce called it: the .530 balls and .010 patches aren't going to cut it. I haven't measured the bore yet, but it looks like I'll need to find a mold at .520 or less, and patches in the .018+ neighborhood. Darn, more shooting to do. 😁
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Dang it! You done good!! Too cool. Yes, I like .018 "best". Or some .020" for heavy loads. Bessie likes .020"+ with a chewed ball, with un-chewed I use denim for the patch, but a smooth bore is a whole different beast. I've shot .570"s in my Jeager with a denim patch. Don't know what denim measures. Surprisingly, they stayed on a paper plate at 100 yards. However, .600's with a .020" patch is what she likes best. I've tried every lube imaginable in the Jeager, including grease/oil from my bear, but it shoots best with "wonder lube 1000". It's supposed to be a .62" barrel, but I think it's much tighter than that. My guess is .615".

Sometimes patch cutting from the rifling, or the muzzle, can be misleading. With no, or one wad under the ball, I'll get fired patches out of the Jeager that look just like they were cut when loading. Having a coned muzzle, that's kind of impossible. Two wads under the ball, and they come out good enough to use again. (but I don't)

I'd try a .525", then a .520", I think TOW has both those sizes, before getting a mold. .530" to .520" is kind of a big jump. ? Anyhow, congrats! Again, you done good.
 
Ya just never know! Well, I don't worry too much about pin-point accuracy. As long as I can place a ball in the heart-lung area at 100 yards I'm happy. And did it one time at 110! DSC07376.JPG I really have not measured groups from the Jeager in a long time. And since then I've change powder granulation, charge, and patch lube. Always the .600" ball though. However, when I go out back and unload it after hunting season, (sometimes months after) I always take careful aim, off the bench, at a 100 yard paper plate, and always seem to hit the center of the plate, or very close to it. So yeah, the .520" should work just fine.
 
I'm sure there's someone here that will send you some .525s to try with your new mold. Where you Sourcing you're lead from, last I looked price for pure at roto metals wasn't to bad. Only thing I have about the bigger bores is now few balls you get a pound,54 is like a happy medium decent sized ball and get a good amount per pound.
 
troy fairweather said:
I'm sure there's someone here that will send you some .525s to try with your new mold. Where you Sourcing you're lead from, last I looked price for pure at roto metals wasn't to bad. Only thing I have about the bigger bores is now few balls you get a pound,54 is like a happy medium decent sized ball and get a good amount per pound.
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I have about 50 pounds of pure lead left from a big purchase a decade or so ago - I honestly don't remember where it came from. When it comes time to renew I'll have to look around a bit. Prices are a lot higher everywhere!

I'm a pretty serious fan of the .36 and might just have to look at the Kibler Southern Mountain Rifle - right after saying I didn't think I needed another flint rifle...
 
troy fairweather said:
I'm sure there's someone here that will send you some .525s to try with your new mold. Where you Sourcing you're lead from, last I looked price for pure at roto metals wasn't to bad. Only thing I have about the bigger bores is now few balls you get a pound,54 is like a happy medium decent sized ball and get a good amount per pound.
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Truth. Try casting up a bunch of musket-balls for a Brown Bess. !!!!! Bessie has a big appetite.
 
And I just realized I'm the biggest liar on THR. My excuse is that I'm used to thinking and writing "100 yard groups" but all the shooting I wrote about in my previous post was at 50. Any two inch groups I make at 100, with these eyes and those sights, are purely accidental!
 
.38 Special said:
And I just realized I'm the biggest liar on THR. My excuse is that I'm used to thinking and writing "100 yard groups" but all the shooting I wrote about in my previous post was at 50. Any two inch groups I make at 100, with these eyes and those sights, are purely accidental!
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Hey, 50 yards probably looks like 100 with "those eyes". So, it's okay.
 
But seriously...I used to believe that unless one shot their groups at 100 yards, they was cheating. But, I'm beginning to find that I can get a much better sight picture at 50 yards, and those groups will tell me (or you or anyone) what the rifle will do at 100 yards, without the sighting error. Or in other words, a 50 yard group will give me a better idea of what the rifle will do at 100 yards, rather than shooting at 100 yards and seeing what I can do. Or, I guess shooting at 50 eliminates a lot of shooter's error, and then one can make a good guess as to what it is doing at 100. Does not apply to smooth bores of course. A 3" group from a musket at 50 yards can be a two foot + group at 100.

And when I can do good, that is satisfying. The pic of the plate with the shot dead-center above is at 100 yards.

Of course I always double check at 100, and with peep sights or a scope (don't remember the last time I shot with a scope) I'd go 100 yards at the get-go.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
But seriously...I used to believe that unless one shot their groups at 100 yards, they was cheating. But, I'm beginning to find that I can get a much better sight picture at 50 yards, and those groups will tell me (or you or anyone) what the rifle will do at 100 yards, without the sighting error. Or in other words, a 50 yard group will give me a better idea of what the rifle will do at 100 yards, rather than shooting at 100 yards and seeing what I can do. Or, I guess shooting at 50 eliminates a lot of shooter's error, and then one can make a good guess as to what it is doing at 100. Does not apply to smooth bores of course. A 3" group from a musket at 50 yards can be a two foot + group at 100.

And when I can do good, that is satisfying. The pic of the plate with the shot dead-center above is at 100 yards.

Of course I always double check at 100, and with peep sights or a scope (don't remember the last time I shot with a scope) I'd go 100 yards at the get-go.
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My excuse is much more prosaic... I've been ridiculously busy lately, and the only 100 yard range within an hours' drive has an eight-foot ceiling. Managing a muzzleloader at the place is a trick - I've actually broken a ramrod there! So I stole a half-morning to go to the 50 yard range and called it good enough, and hopefully will have a lighter schedule in the near future...
 
troy fairweather said:
I'm sure there's someone here that will send you some .525s to try with your new mold. Where you Sourcing you're lead from, last I looked price for pure at roto metals wasn't to bad. Only thing I have about the bigger bores is now few balls you get a pound,54 is like a happy medium decent sized ball and get a good amount per pound.
Click to expand...

Turns out I have some real doubts about the last of my "pure" lead supply. I don't recall where it came from, but it's in Lee ingots and muffin tins, and most of it rings like a bell. I used it to cast a bunch of .520 balls last night, and while I can mark them with a thumbnail, it takes more effort than it should.

I should put in a big order from someplace like Rotometals, but I just ordered another kit from Kibler and am expecting a "What the hell, man?!?" email from my accountant. Good thing the new gun is a .36...
 
.38 Special said:
I should put in a big order from someplace like Rotometals, but I just ordered another kit from Kibler and am expecting a "What the hell, man?!?" email from my accountant. Good thing the new gun is a .36...
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Dang it!!! No fair!! :) Yeah, I want a .36". But, once again, lots of assets, not much cash in the money bag. And then my mind constantly jumps from small caliber rifle, to a pistol I want, to a double barrel ML...so I don't know what I'll actually do when I can shake out enough cash. !!!

I have lots of pure lead, but when I got the .54" barrel for my Plains Pistol, I somehow cast a bunch of balls out of something that was not so pure. It was soft enough that I melted it back down into some alloy that was a bit too hard, so that was a good thing. That made a better alloy for my new fangled cartridge guns. Oh well.
 
.38 Special said:
My excuse is much more prosaic... I've been ridiculously busy lately, and the only 100 yard range within an hours' drive has an eight-foot ceiling. Managing a muzzleloader at the place is a trick - I've actually broken a ramrod there! So I stole a half-morning to go to the 50 yard range and called it good enough, and hopefully will have a lighter schedule in the near future...
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Nothing wrong with that. I have 25, 50, and 100 in my backyard, but again, I've found 50 yards best for sighting in, load development, then a final check at 100.
 
troy fairweather said:
I'd really want a 36 smr for squirrel hunting, tho a 45 would be nice to since its legal here for big game. Really trying to save up for a kit but it's not going well, I hope this fall they come out with the Fowler.
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I've often thought the .45 might be a little more versatile. Or something around .40", which could use the revolver .375-380" balls. I have an original long rifle that shoots the .375's perfectly, perfect fit. However, it's a heavy rifle, or a "little bit" heavy for the caliber, and a family heirloom, so I don't really want to take it on long treks into the wilderness. Light weight is what I'd like in a small caliber rifle. I imagine the Kibler is light.

I hope he comes out with the/a fowler too, I think that's a stronger market than the rifles. Or not. But that seems so to me. As my Bess is my fowler, I don't see getting one, Bessie would be heart broken. The lighter weight would be "nice", but...not gonna do it!!!!
 
My very first flintlock was a .36, and I've been a fan ever since. From a practical sense, I find them easier to clean and shoot than the .32s, while the .40s and above offer more power than I need for squirrels and bunnies. Realistically, though, now that I'm nothing more than a plinker and woods-loafer, any old caliber would do, so I have the luxury of choosing for no reason other than personal idiosyncrasy!

A gun built for .380 balls does make all the sense in the world. My own .36 flinter prefers .345, which always has been a bit annoying. And after the one day at the range with both that rifle and a '51 Navy, I never again have brought both guns on the same outing. I still have flashbacks. :D

At any rate, the box just arrived at work, to be opened at home this evening. I ordered plain maple and intend to copy the finish done on this rifle:


smr-finished-12-of-28_1_orig.jpg

smr-finished-9-of-10_3_orig.jpg

I really like the simple dark and aged appearance, and it should contrast nicely with my flashy Colonial. Supposedly the gun will finish out at about seven pounds.
 
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Got the smr almost completely assembled. Was just amazed at how smoothly it went. Got to the last bit - installing the ramrod pipes - and realized the ramrod hole in the stock hadn't been drilled at all! Will call Jim in the morning and get it sorted, but my luck sometimes... 😅
 
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