Kibler "Colonial" build thread

[hawg]

You should take a picture of that stock.

It's not black powder. It's for my G 33/40 Mauser. This is how it looked the day I got it. I think somebody bought it and sent t back after they found out how hard it was. I really don't think it left the factory with tool marks going every which way.







The trigger guard fits but it's tight.



And the barre; channel is only a half inch.



I wet a spot to get an idea of what it would look like finished.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Its a nice stick, needs to be finished.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

You can make a scraper from an old hacksaw blade and use it to get rid of those tool marks.

 

[hawg]

I've got actual wood scrapers but I can't use them. 80 grit sandpaper on a vibrating sander won't touch this stuff. The only thing I've found that works is grill cleaning blocks. They work great on flat places but I'm scared to try doing curves with them plus they don't last very long.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Yes, cleaned and lubed. Nothing notable so far. As I mentioned I generally prefer a looser combination than do most folks these days, so generally have no issues with loading. Will report back.

I like a ball and patch combo that gives me three or four shots that load easy in a hunting situation. Not sure if that would be considered tight or loose. When sighting in or load development I clean after each shot, to try to replicate, to some degree, a shot from a cold clean barrel. After that, in both my Musket and Rifle, I switch to paper cartridges which I could load "forever". Or just about. I like small balls and thick patches. (didn't say have I said like) !! I also work a new barrel over with scotch brite and fine steel wool. Or, any "previously owned" barrel. My musket bore is really-really slick.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I've got actual wood scrapers but I can't use them. 80 grit sandpaper on a vibrating sander won't touch this stuff. The only thing I've found that works is grill cleaning blocks. They work great on flat places but I'm scared to try doing curves with them plus they don't last very long.

Does not sound like any walnut I have ever encountered.

 

[troy fairweather]

Those small Alcohol square wipes like they use before you get a needle work nice for a quick clean in the field if they fit your jag, the alcohol evaporates pretty quick and if it's not to cold you don't need a patch afterwords. Each gun has it's own rules tho.

 

[.38 Special]

I like a ball and patch combo that gives me three or four shots that load easy in a hunting situation. Not sure if that would be considered tight or loose. When sighting in or load development I clean after each shot, to try to replicate, to some degree, a shot from a cold clean barrel. After that, in both my Musket and Rifle, I switch to paper cartridges which I could load "forever". Or just about. I like small balls and thick patches. (didn't say have I said like) !! I also work a new barrel over with scotch brite and fine steel wool. Or, any "previously owned" barrel. My musket bore is really-really slick.

For me, "tight" is anything that requires a short starter, and "loose" is everything else. Put another way, if I can't get the ball started with my thumb, I'm changing something. That may cost me some accuracy, depending upon the gun (I learned long ago that the "If you're not pounding the load home, you are going to lose accuracy!" people are full of condensed apple pie) but when I am shooting offhand at pinecones, it hasn't yet caused an issue.

 

[hawg]

Does not sound like any walnut I have ever encountered.

Me either. I bought it as curly maple and a guy that knows wood said it was English walnut. I think Bois d'Arc is softer and you have to drill holes in that stuff to get a nail through it. I've refinished walnut many times but not sure if any of it was English and never had a problem sanding it.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Well, weren't all the early gunstocks, in general "English" walnut. Like all the Enfields, British guns, etc.? I don't think that American Walnut and English walnut are much different. ? I kind of know wood, (can't work with it well)(but I can make knife handles) and can't really think of what would resemble walnut, and be that hard. It's a mystery!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

It's not black powder. It's for my G 33/40 Mauser. This is how it looked the day I got it. I think somebody bought it and sent t back after they found out how hard it was. I really don't think it left the factory with tool marks going every which way.

View attachment 1166047



View attachment 1166049

The trigger guard fits but it's tight.

View attachment 1166050

And the barre; channel is only a half inch.

View attachment 1166051

I wet a spot to get an idea of what it would look like finished.

View attachment 1166052

Oh that's funny I just now saw these pics. Yeah, sure looks like walnut, but different. I have no guess as to what else it could be.

 

[hawg]

I never investigated it before but I just found out there's two types of maple. There's soft maple which is what most gunstocks are made of and then there's rock maple which is very difficult to sand. It's so dense and hard you can forget hand sanding. I know what little sanding dust I got from 80 grit on a vibrating sander was really fine. Maybe I need to get an orbital sander.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

For me, "tight" is anything that requires a short starter, and "loose" is everything else. Put another way, if I can't get the ball started with my thumb, I'm changing something. That may cost me some accuracy, depending upon the gun (I learned long ago that the "If you're not pounding the load home, you are going to lose accuracy!" people are full of condensed apple pie) but when I am shooting offhand at pinecones, it hasn't yet caused an issue.

Okay, yeah, I don't use a short starter with my Jeager or Bess. I can thumb-load them both for those three or four shots. Or a few more, that's just where it's taking some more muscle on the ram rod to get the ball all the way down. That TC .50 cal that I have on the other hand, does require a short starter to get a slug started, but then it slips down easy. I don't shoot ball in it just due to the small caliber, I feel more confident with that 385 grain "Great Plains" bullet, should I have an argument with grizz. Also it's more accurate with the slug, than with ball. And, I carry paper cartridge loads for it, so if I need a fast close range finishing shot I can just pop one of those in. However, it's my take-along "back up" rifle when hunting up North, so the chances of even using it are slim.

 

[hawg]

I have to use a short starter on my Hawken. The balls with a .010 patch are very tight but she sure can shoot.

 

[troy fairweather]

English walnut is very different from american, English can take a very fine checkkering unlike American. The grain looks like English mostly, I've Hurd English walnut that was grown in Australia can be much harder. Normal English is mostly soft and works easily, has a pretty strong smell when working it compared to most walnuts. French walnut can be pretty hard to.

It could be highly figured sugar maple(rock maple) it's very hard it's what is used for blowing pins, and floors.

I'm betting this stock came from Richards micro fits.

 

[hawg]

I'm betting this stock came from Richards micro fits.

It did. They're the only ones that make a stock for a G 33/40.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Outta curiosity do your hands turn purple after sanding on this thing? It reminds me a lot of Claro Walnut other than being that hard. I ran across an old CVA kit for a "Kentucky" rifle that had extremely hard maple. That thing was like sanding a brick. Do you suppose it's some form of oak?

 

[hawg]

Outta curiosity do your hands turn purple after sanding on this thing? It reminds me a lot of Claro Walnut other than being that hard. I ran across an old CVA kit for a "Kentucky" rifle that had extremely hard maple. That thing was like sanding a brick. Do you suppose it's some form of oak?

No, no purple hands. It's not oak. English walnut seems to be too soft but the supposed wood knowing dude said that's what it is. I'm thinking the place that sold it should know what it is and they said it was maple but I'll bet they were wondering why their cutters were dulling so fast when they hit this piece. I admit I'm not much of a woodworker and y'all probably think I just don't know what I'm talking about but I have experience with wood. I just can't make much of anything out of it and this stuff is the hardest stuff I've come across except maybe for the Bois d'Arc I tried to make knife scales out of. I don't know what the Indians used to shape/smooth that stuff for bows but I wish I had whatever it was.

 

[woodnbow]

No, no purple hands. It's not oak. English walnut seems to be too soft but the supposed wood knowing dude said that's what it is. I'm thinking the place that sold it should know what it is and they said it was maple but I'll bet they were wondering why their cutters were dulling so fast when they hit this piece. I admit I'm not much of a woodworker and y'all probably think I just don't know what I'm talking about but I have experience with wood. I just can't make much of anything out of it and this stuff is the hardest stuff I've come across except maybe for the Bois d'Arc I tried to make knife scales out of. I don't know what the Indians used to shape/smooth that stuff for bows but I wish I had whatever it was.

Flint scrapers and time?

 

[hawg]

Flint scrapers and time?

Beats me how a piece of knapped flint could smooth without leaving grooves. Choctaws made bows from Bois d'Arc and while some of them are pretty crude a lot of them are smooth.

 

[woodnbow]

Beats me how a piece of knapped flint could smooth without leaving grooves. Choctaws made bows from Bois d'Arc and while some of them are pretty crude a lot of them are smooth.

I’ve never used flint scrapers but I always finished my bows with steel scrapers. seldom used sandpaper. They’re not as beautiful as the St.Charles yew longbow or a Torges flatbow but nobody’s ever thrown rocks at them.
I wonder though if primitive bowyers might have finished with actual sand applied with a scrap of leather? Dunno.

 

[troy fairweather]

Flint scrapers work very well actually, you can fracture it just right and get different Radius of nap it to the shaped needed. There are scary sharp knives but flint Especially obsidian is way sharper, like you get cut to the bone and don't know it. Some woods like claro walnut it's hard to scrap because of the different grain from light to dark you will get waves if not careful.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

Bodark is actually not that hard to work dry when you are going with the grain and using a scraper.
If you rough out the bow while the stave is green it's not that hard to work with either.

 

[troy fairweather]

I seen some tribes way back make clubs out of iron wood they said using just stone tools, that must have taken for ever.

 

[.38 Special]

So, range day...

The thing is perfectly reliable and more accurate than me, at least with irons. Averages about 3" for three shot groups at 100 yards. (Edit: big fat lie alert. These groups were all at 50 yards. I must have been on autopilot when I typed out this post.) I took a picture of one of the "bragging groups".



Didn't measure it, but those are 1" squares, so a bit under 2".

Started with 60 grains Swiss 2f and went up to 90. The rifle liked 70 and 80 grains equally well, so I filed and drifted the sights for 70, which took just one try. Nice when that happens.

With a clean bore and a 60 grain charge, patches showed some cutting from the rifling.



This isn't unusual with my customary .010 patches, and as long as accuracy is good it doesn't bother me. As the barrel fouled and the charges increased, I started noticing little black smudges in the dirt. I didn't make the connection until I saw one smoking. With 90 grains of powder, the gun blows patches as badly as I've ever seen, turning them into these smoky little caterpillars.



So @Ugly Sauce called it: the .530 balls and .010 patches aren't going to cut it. I haven't measured the bore yet, but it looks like I'll need to find a mold at .520 or less, and patches in the .018+ neighborhood. Darn, more shooting to do.