Kimber 1911 Ammunition Q'

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maggnum

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Hello all,

First things first; Im new.

Second, I recently purchased a *used* 1911 Kimber Raptor II .45 ACP (The gun is extremely clean). The barrel is 5" match grade with what Kimber says ieft hand 16 twist which I assume is 1:16...

Where I am currently located for the summer the only ammunition I am able to obtain within a reasonable distance is the remington 230 gr umc. This ammunition is just flat out not grouping well for me. Also, I am interested in a lighter grain bullet because I have been told that it is less stress on the firearm, less recoil etc.

So all in all, does anyone have a few suggestions as far as ammuniton to start out with? Is the lighter grain myth true?

Thanks in advance!
 
The .45 ACP M1911 and standard pressure 230 gr Ball (FMJ) ammo were designed around each other - The combination has worked very well for nearly a century now. I'd not go lighter, unless availability becomes an issue. Shooting standard pressure 230 gr ammo is not going to wear out your Kimber.

How bad is "not grouping well"? If the UMC is grouping very poorly, then I'd try any other major brand ammo I could get, regardless of bullet weight, just to have something to compare to.

FWIW, I'm not a huge fan of UMC ammo myself. When not shooting handloads I prefer Speer Lawman, Federal American Eagle, or WWB. Fiocchi purple box FMJ has also done surprisingly well for me.
 
The 230 grain UMC should perform just fine. I've used it with good results in quite a number of my 1911s.

The 230 grain bullet is pretty much the standard for .45 ACP. Lighter bullets may have less felt recoil, but I doubt that you'd find any significant difference in wear and tear on the gun. In any case, a 1911 properly maintain will be good for a couple of generations.

You would probably find that something like the Federal Premium Gold Medal Match 185 grain FMJ-SW load will have less felt recoil. But that will be primarily because it's loaded to a rather sedate muzzle velocity of about 770 fps since it's intended for serous target shooting. At standard pressure, a full power .45 ACP load with a 185 grain bullet will have a muzzle velocity more in the vicinity of 900 to 950 fps.

So while I hate to say this, you might want to consider that your groupings and accuracy could improve with some good instruction and practice. A Kimber 1911 with 230 grain UMC ammunition should be capable of delivering decent accuracy. Of course, it's possible that, since the gun is used, it may have been abused or messed with. You could try to check that out by asking someone you know to be a good shot with a handgun to try it out.

But a handgun is a difficult firearm to master. Most really good shooters have spent a lot of time and effort learning to shoot.

The first principle of accurate shooting is trigger control: a smooth, press straight back on the trigger with only the trigger finger moving. Maintain your focus on the front sight as you press the trigger, increasing pressure on the trigger until the shot breaks. Don't try to predict exactly when the gun will go off nor try to cause the shot to break at a particular moment. This is what Jeff Cooper called the "surprise break."


By keeping focus on the front sight and increasing pressure on the trigger until the gun essentially shoots itself, you don’t anticipate the shot breaking. But if you try to make the shot break at that one instant in time when everything seem steady and aligned, you usually wind up jerking the trigger. Of course the gun will wobble some on the target. Try not to worry about the wobble and don’t worry about trying to keep the sight aligned on a single point. Just let the front sight be somewhere in a small, imaginary box in the center of the target.

Also, work on follow through. Be aware of where on the target the front sight is as the shot breaks and watch the front sight lift off that point as the gun recoils – all the time maintaining focus on the front sight.

Also, while practice in very important, remember that practice doesn’t make perfect. It’s “PERFECT practice makes perfect.” More frequent practice shooting fewer rounds, but concentrating hard on what you’re doing, will be more productive than less frequent, higher round count practice.

Practice deliberately, making every shot count, to program good habits and muscle memory. Dry practice is very helpful. You just want to triple check that the gun is not loaded, and there should be no ammunition anywhere around. When engaging in dry practice, religiously follow Rule 2 - Never Let Your Muzzle Cover Anything You Are Not Willing To Destroy." As you dry fire, you want to reach the point where you can't see any movement of the sight as the sear releases and the hammer falls.

Finally, some instruction is always a good idea. I try to take classes from time to time; and I always learn something new.

Think: front sight, press, surprise.
 
From a rest at 25yds, im hitting about 10" group.
Have you checked the bbl with a bore light? That sounds like copper fouling. Get some Butch's Bore Shine (or similar ammonia based copper solvent), and non-bronze bore tools (bronze has copper in it, so the solvent will eat the bronze brushes). Run a patch soaked in solvent down the bore. If you have copper fouling the patch will come out blue from the ammonia reacting with the copper. If that's the case, scrub with copper solvent & plastic bore brush until the copper solvent soaked patches quit coming out blue.
 
I also realize that when I shoot off hand, my shots tend to pull down and to the left, right about 7 o clock, of the bull at varying distances, I assume this is poor trigger control?
 
maggnum said:
I also realize that when I shoot off hand, my shots tend to pull down and to the left, right about 7 o clock, of the bull at varying distances, I assume this is poor trigger control?
Yes, and it's very common.

Try some dry fire practice. Make sure the gun is unloaded -- triple check it and make sure there is no ammunition in the area. And just to be on the safe side, dry fire at something that would stop a bullet and that you wouldn't mind destroying. Focus on the front sight and press the trigger -- increasing pressure until the hammer falls. Don't worry about any wobble of the gun. Just keep your focus on the front sight and press the trigger. The sight should not move as the sear releases and the hammer drops.

Another thing to try is to have a buddy load your magazine. Have him put a dummy round or two intermixed with live rounds. If when you come to the dummy round the gun moves when the hammer drops, you know that you are jerking the trigger.
 
Just try some different cheap 230 grain ammo; your gun doesn't like the UMC, so use something else. No problem there! UMC is pretty dirty ammo to boot. Try Winchester white box 230 grain rounds, see how those shoot.
 
You mentioned being new, do you mean just new to this forum or new to hangun shooting?

Do you have another handgun of known accuracy that you can shoot off that rest for comparison? Are you capable of better accuracy than what you are seeing at the present time?

Does your Kimber perform the same when someone else shoots it?

I wouldn't expect one hole groups at 25 yards but 10" seems a bit excessive.
 
Where I am currently located for the summer the only ammunition I am able to obtain within a reasonable distance

The internet and your computer is as close as it gets. Order some other stuff and try them to find what YOUR gun likes
 
Your Kimber should group better than 10". Based on what you are saying, you are anticipating the recoil and pulling the gun down and to the left because you have too much trigger finger on the trigger. The 1911 trigger is different than any other semi-auto pistol and should be pulled straight back. Get a snap cap in 45 ACP and dry fire the gun about 15 to 20 min a day for at least a week. You will note during pratice that the way you are pull the pistol just as you pull the trigger. Your groups will get a lot better with pratice.

Jim
 
Copper solvent with ammonia will not eat bronze brushes. Mostly because "bronze" brushes of today are "Phospherous bronze". I tend to wear out my bore brushes long before the solvent (and I use Butches Bore Shine and Hoppe's Benchrest #9) has a chance to "eat" the bronze.

Though the early 1911 pistols were designed around and for the 230 grain FMJ bullet you will find that modern 1911's will perform well with about anything. The Kimber does tend to be a bit finicky about what it eats. I am using Hornady's 185 grain JHP and am getting 2" spread (5 holes) at 25 yards benchrest (home made). My Kimber UCC II is a 3" barrel.

Understanding your supply problem you might have some difficulty finding other kinds of ammunition to try. Handloading does have it's advantages. I would work on your trigger control first. I bet you (even though benchresting) will find your biggest probem there.
 
I've found Hornady 230 gr for just over $17.00, I figure I'll order a few boxes of that, work on trigger control and see what kind of progress I can make. Hornady is still a decent ammunition manufacturer I assume?
 
Absolutely!!

In the evening when the wife and kids are preocupied elsewhere. Sit in front of the TV and practice dry fire on the bad guys on the TV. MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT THE GUN IS EMPTY. TV's can be expensive and trying to explain it to the wife...Well........
 
Your pistol may simply not group well with that particular load. The UMC brand, being made to a lower price point, may have more variations in powder type/charge, case/bullet dimensions and such, causing accuracy problems. (Although a ten-inch grouping is still an awful lot!) As well, premium JHP loads tend to be more accurate than FMJ ball, as such bullets have a smooth base that is less affected by turbulence as it exits the muzzle. (FMJ bullets have exposed lead at the base with the jacket rolled over the edges.) Don't write your pistol off until you've tried a greater variety of loads.
 
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