Kimber Solo9: DAO or S/A w/ 7 pound trigger?

[borg warner]

I can understand how a striker-fired pistol can be single action (S/A) because the striker can be cocked by the slide when you first chamber a round and then it is cocked by the slide again after each shot like every other single action auto or SA/DA autos such as the PPK, P38, or the Beretta M9.

I can also see how, with a S/A striker fired pistol. a slide lock safety would be desirable so that a single action striker-fired and slide cocking pistol could be carried cocked and locked even though I tend to think that it should also have a grip safety if it is to be carried in this mode.

I can also understand why the new Ruger LC9 is a DAO Pistol with an additional slide lock safety just to keep all the bed-wetters happy, and to avoid going to a Glock-type trigger safety even with a long S/A pull.

And st the same time i can also see how it would be a big advantage to have a true striker fired S/A because a true striker fired S/A would not require a beavertail on the grip safety to hook on clothing or compromise maximum concealability

But I do NOT understand why a pistol would have a long trigger pull that broke at SEVEN POUNDS if it is a Single Action pistol with what appears to be a DA Only trigger. I mean What The Hell?

Can any one explain to me in detail how a gun like this solo 9 which appears to be a single action with a long trigger pull for each shot actually functions?

Or if it can actually be carried cocked and locked, then wouldn't the trigger move to the rear in S/A position. OR, is this actually a DA/SA pistol like the Beretta M9?

It seems to me like this must be a totally new mechanism unlike anything that's eve existed. My opinion is that if you have Either SA cocked & Locked or DAO that's about as good as it gets and it's really only SA/DA that leaves a lot to be desired. The late Col. Cooper use to refer to them as "Crunchentickers".

 

[Nushif]

Haven't fired one, but the system which is basically a "single action" and has a long trigger pull as well isn't exactly new.
In a Kahr, for instance you have a long trigger pull that breaks at ... 4.5? ... 6? pounds and releases a striker that's pre-cocked.

I honestly think that wrapping your head around it purely in trigger function is inadequate. Trigger function and action type are so interlaced these days that the "late Col. Cooper's" definitions are simply no longer applicable, or if they are, they're insufficient to describe what's happening.

 

[Canazes9]

Can't comment specifically on the solo as I've never seen or shot one, but the trigger sounds very similar to the trigger on my Taurus Slim 740. It's a long travel fully cocked striker action trigger w/ second strike capability. Sear release is about 5 pounds.

I love this trigger, it reminds me somewhat of the german air rifles I've shot all my life w/ their 2-stage trigger design. It is a safer trigger design (IMO) than the traditional single action trigger, less likely to accidentaly be released. With it's long action and 1st stage, trigger safety and internal firing pin block I feel very safe carrying this pistol w/o the superfluous slide mounted manual safety engaged.

Take up the slack in the trigger and it feels very much like a traditional single stage trigger, allowing surprising accuracy out of this pocket pistol. It's a very good trigger. Doesn't seem like the solo has the second strike capability, but other than that, probably a good trigger.

David

 

[Capp35]

Nushif,
Are you sure about the Kahr? Maybe on yours, but not on my PM9. It is a true DAO pistol and feels like it on the trigger pull

From their website:

Trigger cocking DAO; lock breech; "Browning - type" recoil lug; passive striker block

 

[wild cat mccane]

true double action doesn't have to be recocked by using the slide after failure of the slide being cycled by a fired round. The kahr is not a true DOA Think revolver, taurus autos, p11, p99... not glock.

 

[Nushif]

true double action doesn't have to be recocked by using the slide after failure of the slide being cycled by a fired round.

Exactly this. I have a "true" DA pistol. It's a Beretta 92D.
My Kahr's trigger does one thing ... it releases the striker. So that would make it a "single action" but the way it's designed it feels pretty close to a double action. The reason I'm saying pretty close is because there is very much less buildup in the trigger. At least on mine, but it's been polished by use.
I maintain that the standard classification system is simply no longer enough to describe some of the actions out there.
I'd describe my 92D as a "true DA" ... my Kahr as a "SA Striker fired" with the big caveat that it's designed to feel close to a DA trigger. A Glock in my book would be a "SA, striker fired" where the average 1911 is a ... "SA, hammer fired (or whatever that term is)"
there is just so much variety in pistols that classifying *every* type action into either SA or DA is kind of simplifying it.

 

[Capp35]

There is no difference in trigger pull or lenghth, between the first shot and the last. Mine cocks each time it is fired, you can feel it as you pull the trigger.
It cocks the action each time you pull the trigger and is stated on the specs.

Not sure on the slide not cycling since it has never happened though so that could be true.

 

[Nushif]

Try this:

Clear the gun, you'll have to rack the slide.
Point it in a safe direction ... pull the trigger.
It'll go Click.
Now, pull, the trigger again.
It won't go click.

That's because the striker wasn't pre-cocked.
In a "true DAO" it's look like this:

Clear the gun, you'll have to rack the slide.
Point in safe direction, pull trigger.
Click.
Pull trigger again ...
Click.

 

[Capp35]

How about in the sake of no more arguing, we say it is not a true single action till I have time to investigate this. (since I am at work)

 

[Capp35]

Ok, made a call and also did some online research.

My definition for a DA had always been when the trigger cocks (tension on spring) the firing pin, which the PM9 does.

When you rack the slide on the Kahr the striker get's held back a bit. That allows the sear to engage it when you pull the trigger. Pulling the trigger causes the sear to rotate and pull the striker back until it releases and fires.

If you get a failure to fire then you'll have to rack the slide to get the striker held back far enough to be engaged by the sear. This is because once the sear releases it, the striker is now too far past the sear to be engaged again.

So it could be called a two stage double action(or something simular), but definately not a single action.

 

[Nushif]

Exactly.
With so many different and mildy varying action types I think "true" DA, SA or whatever is gonna be real hard to find, soon.

 

[Canazes9]

Nushif hit it right the 1st time - it can be difficult to define modern striker fired pistols using terms like double action and single action because they don't truly apply. Most of the double action only striker fired pistols have a striker that is partially cocked by the slide and the trigger must complete the cocking of the striker prior to release. The Kahr "double action only" trigger functions in this manner.

The Solo is a long stroke single action (the striker is fully cocked, the trigger has a lot of take-up).

The Taurus slim is a long stroke single action with no decocker, however if it strikes a primer and it doesn't detonate it can be struck again by simply squeezing the trigger in true double action fashion.

David

 

[Capp35]

I was hoping the SOLO had a short trigger, because of the single action.

I am looking for another small carry, about the size of my Kahr that is a true single action. Wanting a short pull with a semi crisp trigger pull of no more than 5 lbs.

Is there any sort of animal like that?

I may just have to bight the bullet and get a 3" 1911 platform. Don't like the weight/size though.

 

[Canazes9]

Capp35,

I am not aware of any pistols that meet your requirements exactly. I personally like the long stroke single action trigger on my Taurus slim - have you ever tried one? The ONLY thing it has in common with light DAO triggers is the length of the trigger stroke. It takes about 1 pound of pressure to move the trigger through its full range of motion until you get to the break point. Then it is about 5 pounds and fairly crisp. Once you take the 1st stage up (the long light stroke) it feels and functions like a traditional single action trigger.

It's a good safe trigger - no need to carry "locked and cocked", safety not required (it's got a trigger safety and an internal firing pin block that won't allow the gun to fire unless the trigger is fully depressed). You should try a slim's trigger before you decide against them.

I know that Taurus doesn't have a great name on this forum. I have handguns from Para Ordnance, Ruger, Springfield Armory, Smith & Wesson and Sig Sauer. This new Slim 740 is a nice piece, and compares favorably with the others.

When I was looking at pocket 9's I looked at the Ruger and the Keltec before I ran across the 740. Probably wouldn't have asked to look at it if it wasn't a 40 (I like 40's!) I was surprised at how nice it was and how nice the trigger was. I really like the non traditional SA/DA trigger. It functions SA exactly as I previously described unless the round doesn't go off then it will function as a decent DA providing 2nd strike capability.

I've put about 150 rounds through mine so far and it's been perfect so far. Recoil is surprisingly manageable given the caliber and weight. Don't let others make up your mine, check out Taurus 709 Slim or a 740 Slim (depending on the caliber you want) for yourself.

HTH

David

 

[IMTHDUKE]

Whatever you want to call it .....I call it fine. This has become my favorite pocket gun....and I have them from the Robrbaugh to the Kahr PM9.

 

[Capp35]

David,
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll take a look.

IMTHDUKE,
Nice Pic!