Striker fired pistols?

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Sarge7402

Sarge7402

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I understh heand how external hammer pistols (SA SA/DA and DAO) work.

I understand that a Glock is striker fired, but the striker is only partially cocked by the slide recoil and that the trigger finishes the cocking and release.

I also understand that pistols like the baby browning, Jennings and other pistols are striker fired with the slide fully cocking the striker and the only thing preventing the striker from going forward and setting the cartridge off is the sear which the trigger trips when pulled. All of these have a safety that prevents the trigger from being pulled.

What I don't understand are pistols listed as striker fired but unlike the baby browning have no safety to prevent the trigger from being accidentally pulled. Are these guns all like the Glock and the stikers are only partially cocked r what?
 
All? Dunno? But that is the usual situation. Whether or not the trigger pull is finishing the striker cocking, guns without external safeties tend to have trigger pulls to release that are similarly as long as revolvers. Also they usually have heavier trigger pills than many other semi-automatic pistols. That is the key.
 
Some are fully cocked and some are partially cocked although I'm not sure how important the distinction is. I think they pretty much all have a safety in the trigger that requires a trigger to be pressed to pull it back (center blade or hinge style), as well as a firing pin block that mechanically prevents the striker from hitting the primer without the trigger being pulled back. Some others also offer manual safeties like the various M&P pistols, among others.
 
Most of the current striker fired pistols are fully cocked by the slide movement but they go to great lengths to avoid using the term single action because many people and police departments don't want to carry a cocked single action with no manual safety. From what I have read the Glock and Kahrs are "less cocked" while the M&P, Sig 320, and Springfield XD are fully cocked. There are even other striker fired pistols like the Walther P99AS which is a DA/SA. And the Taurus Spectrum is a true DAO striker.
 
Yes, with a striker-fired pistol that lacks an external manual safety, if something pulls the trigger either intentionally or otherwise, it will shoot. But that is true whether the striker is partially or fully cocked by slide action. It is also true for DA/SA hammer-fired pistols, double action revolvers, and DAO revolvers and pistols that lack an external manual safety.

But I have shot a lot of striker-fired pistols and own a few. None of them have had as long and deliberate trigger pull as that of the DA pull on a DA/SA hammer-fired pistol, a double action revolver, or a DAO revolver or pistol. Some striker-fired pistols may have trigger pull weights as heavy as those of the DA pull of hammer-fired handguns (although most are lighter) but none have as long a trigger pull after significant resistance is felt. The ones that have come the closest are Kahrs and the DA trigger pull of the striker-fired Walther P99.
 
In general, partially or fully cocked really is immaterial from a safety standpoint. It's mostly a marketing point. Nearly all (I'm pretty sure it is all, but I don't know about every possible gun out there) striker fired guns have a firing pin safety that prevents the gun from firing if the trigger isn't pulled.

The SIG P320 was found to have some issues when dropped, that could allow the striker to fall forward and fire a round. I believe SIG has "upgraded" those pistols. One thing this did prompt though, was a bunch of smart guys started banging on their various striker fired guns (in a controlled environment, of course) trying to get their strikers to drop. I'm not sure any could defeat the firing pin safeties, but some - I believe one of the new Walther's (PPQ?) and the HK VP9 - could release the striker to a decocked position leaving you with a dead trigger. The other thing they found out was, in spite of the partially cocked status of the Glock striker, it had enough energy, in it's partially cocked state to fire primers. However, the firing pin safety could only be defeated with non-stock, aftermarket parts.
 
rpenmanparker said:
All? Dunno? But that is the usual situation. Whether or not the trigger pull is finishing the striker cocking, guns without external safeties tend to have trigger pulls to release that are similarly as long as revolvers. Also they usually have heavier trigger pills than many other semi-automatic pistols. That is the key.
Click to expand...
Not my Sig P365; my Kahr has a long smooth trigger, but the Sig is short, smooth and crisp
 
rpenmanparker said:
Whether or not the trigger pull is finishing the striker cocking, guns without external safeties tend to have trigger pulls to release that are similarly as long as revolvers. Also they usually have heavier trigger pills than many other semi-automatic pistols. That is the key.
Click to expand...
Like above, I'll disagree with this.

Striker fired guns typically have shorter trigger travel and lighter weight triggers than DA revolvers and the DA pull of DA/SA semi-auto's.

Ernest Langdon on the Beretta 92 talking about the Glock. Skip forward to about the 2:10 mark.

 
Very few striker fired firearms are the same. What is the same, is they use an internal striker rather than an external/internal hammer. There are some trends among striker fired handguns such as lighter and shorter trigger pulls on some models. Handguns like Glocks use a partially cocked striker, and this seems to be the most common method among striker firearms.
 
That is correct, the triggers on my SA 1911-pattern guns are short because the hammer's already cocked and ready to go. Same for my SA revolvers.
The triggers on my striker-fired pistols still have some firing pin travel to impart, so they're a bit longer and heavier.
The triggers on my DA/SA pistols/revolvers are long for #1 then short, while my DAO's are long for every pull and most stack a bit (But my Beretta 96 Centurion DAO is very light and even throughout, by far the nicest DAO trigger I've ever used!).

Since these are all fundamentally different systems, we really are looking at apples to oranges to bananas in the grand scheme of things. :)

Stay safe!
 
The trigger on my M&P 2.0 does not feel like a 1911 trigger. It is a lot different from the trigger on a DA/SA autoloader or a double action revolver though. As someone else posted some striker guns are partially cocked, some are fully cocked, some have thumb safeties, some have grip safeties, most have either a hinged or bladed trigger. There are many varieties.

I am fine with carrying a striker fired pistol without an external safety. I do use a holster that has retention & completely covers the trigger guard. If one does this, keeps their finger off the trigger until they are ready to shoot & is cautious when holstering I believe they will be fine. Most negligent/accidental discharges I have read about happening were due to a pull string or article of clothing getting into the holster/trigger guard while holstering. It is a good idea to look the pistol into the holster & make sure nothing gets in there.
 
Mike J said:
The trigger on my M&P 2.0 does not feel like a 1911 trigger. It is a lot different from the trigger on a DA/SA autoloader or a double action revolver though. As someone else posted some striker guns are partially cocked, some are fully cocked, some have thumb safeties, some have grip safeties, most have either a hinged or bladed trigger. There are many varieties.

I am fine with carrying a striker fired pistol without an external safety. I do use a holster that has retention & completely covers the trigger guard. If one does this, keeps their finger off the trigger until they are ready to shoot & is cautious when holstering I believe they will be fine. Most negligent/accidental discharges I have read about happening were due to a pull string or article of clothing getting into the holster/trigger guard while holstering. It is a good idea to look the pistol into the holster & make sure nothing gets in there.
Click to expand...
I’m blown away by the tolerance, even advocacy of safety-less pistols. Pure hubris. If you can be safer at absolutely no disadvantage in a self-defense situation, how can you argue against it? Practiced drawing routines are all that are needed to make safety removal automatic. You establish your preferred grip every time you draw. You properly place your index finger along the slide before acquiring your target. You do so many things automatically. Dropping the thumb safety is no different.
 
rpenmanparker said:
I’m blown away by the tolerance, even advocacy of safety-less pistols. Pure hubris. If you can be safer at absolutely no disadvantage in a self-defense situation, how can you argue against it? Practiced drawing routines are all that are needed to make safety removal automatic. You establish your preferred grip every time you draw. You properly place your index finger along the slide before acquiring your target. You do so many things automatically. Dropping the thumb safety is no different.
Click to expand...


The ONLY gun without a safety I use is my Canik. I only use that during competition. If I had a 1911 that held 20 rounds of 9mm and only cost $479 I'd use that instead.
 
Most of the striker fired guns are partially cocked. The only exception that I'm aware of is the XD pistols. That fact makes Glocks, and most others technically DAO and that is why they are considered for LE purchases. Most LE agencies do not allow SA pistols for consideration among most, if not all officers. That eliminates the XD series, as well as 1911's for most officers. Some agencies do allow officers to carry SA pistols, and some others let elite units like SWAT carry them, but not general officers.

And many striker fired guns do have 1911 style external safeties. The M&P is available with or without a safety as are most Ruger striker fired pistols. The new striker fired Sig pistol being supplied to the military has a safety while the civilian version does not. At least not one that I've seen yet. They are eventually going to offer the civilian version with a safety. And there may be others.

As long as the gun is in a holster personally am not concerned if it doesn't have a safety. But once it comes out, and if it is stored without a holster such as night stand duty I prefer a 1911 style thumb safety. That is why I have M&P's and Rugers that have a thumb safety as well as my Glocks.

You guys can disagree with me, fine. Suffice it to say striker triggers don’t feel like 1911s. That’s all I’m saying.
Click to expand...

If you're seeing a huge difference between most striker fired pistols and a typical out of the box 1911 you're doing it wrong. Or are only shooting custom or target grade 1911's with modified or target triggers. Most Glocks have a quite crisp 5-6 lb trigger pull which is exactly the same trigger pull as most out of the box 1911's. My Smith M&P's are about the same while my Ruger striker fired SR9 and LC9s have triggers closer to 4-5 lbs. and are actually lighter than my 1911's. The mistake many make is that they operate the striker fired triggers like they would a revolver. There is a very short take up with no resistance on most striker fired pistols. Once you reach that point you get a very 1911 type pull. After the shot only release the trigger enough to reset. Not let the trigger return all the way so it feels like firing a revolver DA.

The striker fired guns can't compete with a tuned 1911 target trigger, but are every bit the equal of most out of the box 1911 combat triggers.
 
jmr40 said:
Most of the striker fired guns are partially cocked. The only exception that I'm aware of is the XD pistols. That fact makes Glocks, and most others technically DAO and that is why they are considered for LE purchases. Most LE agencies do not allow SA pistols for consideration among most, if not all officers. That eliminates the XD series, as well as 1911's for most officers. Some agencies do allow officers to carry SA pistols, and some others let elite units like SWAT carry them, but not general officers.

And many striker fired guns do have 1911 style external safeties. The M&P is available with or without a safety as are most Ruger striker fired pistols. The new striker fired Sig pistol being supplied to the military has a safety while the civilian version does not. At least not one that I've seen yet. They are eventually going to offer the civilian version with a safety. And there may be others.

As long as the gun is in a holster personally am not concerned if it doesn't have a safety. But once it comes out, and if it is stored without a holster such as night stand duty I prefer a 1911 style thumb safety. That is why I have M&P's and Rugers that have a thumb safety as well as my Glocks.



If you're seeing a huge difference between most striker fired pistols and a typical out of the box 1911 you're doing it wrong. Or are only shooting custom or target grade 1911's with modified or target triggers. Most Glocks have a quite crisp 5-6 lb trigger pull which is exactly the same trigger pull as most out of the box 1911's. My Smith M&P's are about the same while my Ruger striker fired SR9 and LC9s have triggers closer to 4-5 lbs. and are actually lighter than my 1911's. The mistake many make is that they operate the striker fired triggers like they would a revolver. There is a very short take up with no resistance on most striker fired pistols. Once you reach that point you get a very 1911 type pull. After the shot only release the trigger enough to reset. Not let the trigger return all the way so it feels like firing a revolver DA.

The striker fired guns can't compete with a tuned 1911 target trigger, but are every bit the equal of most out of the box 1911 combat triggers.
Click to expand...
We will have to disagree with everything you just wrote. Off the shelf 1911s in my experience (several) are short and crisp. Glocks are long and muddy. That’s all.
 
jmr40 said:
If you're seeing a huge difference between most striker fired pistols and a typical out of the box 1911 you're doing it wrong.
Click to expand...

Distance and weight. Trigger pull length on a Glock for example is about half an inch. A 1911 is about 1/3 depending on the type of trigger they use (long, flat, crescent etc). My bone stock Para trigger pull is 4 pounds. Every Glock fresh out of the box I have ever fired was 6-7 pounds. After a couple thousand rounds they sometimes drop to the advertised 5.5 weight. The triggers are different because they are very different.
 
rpenmanparker writes:

I’m blown away by the tolerance, even advocacy of safety-less pistols. Pure hubris. If you can be safer at absolutely no disadvantage in a self-defense situation, how can you argue against it? Practiced drawing routines are all that are needed to make safety removal automatic. You establish your preferred grip every time you draw. You properly place your index finger along the slide before acquiring your target. You do so many things automatically. Dropping the thumb safety is no different.
Click to expand...

When, exactly, did it become enough of an issue to warrant the stance that every one should fear handguns lacking safety levers? Heck, it could even be argued that, in the name of "being safer", you should not even be carrying (after all, no one has had an unintended discharge with a firearm that was not present.)

You like what you like, and others like what they like. For some of us, regulating non-issues is undesirable.
 
Fumbling around with a safety, or forgetting about it in a tense moment, has gotten people killed.
The reverse is probably true also -- not having a safety has gotten people killed.
I look at it as being another part that adds complexity and that could malfunction.
On the other hand, if I had a G26 and was carrying it in my pocket... I'd be a little nervous about it, even if the trigger was properly shrouded... but only a little nervous.
For that reason, I'd probably almost rather go with a true DAO like a SCCY CPX-2 with it's long and firm trigger pull.
Yet... I'm really more interested in a P32 for pocket carry, which isn't a true DAO (it's more like a Glock)... so a good holster would be paramount.

All that said, the only small carry gun I do have is a S&W 442 with its stout, long DAO trigger... which rides in a $5 pocket holster that was "made for it" (some online retailer clearance sale) but that doesn't even completely cover the damn trigger on one side. Needless to say, when I do carry it, I'm always very cognizant of that trigger and that nothing 'pokes my pocket' from the outside.
 
Last edited:
MedWheeler said:
rpenmanparker writes:



When, exactly, did it become enough of an issue to warrant the stance that every one should fear handguns lacking safety levers? Heck, it could even be argued that, in the name of "being safer", you should not even be carrying (after all, no one has had an unintended discharge with a firearm that was not present.)

You like what you like, and others like what they like. For some of us, regulating non-issues is undesirable.
Click to expand...
Don’t look at me. I ain’t regulatin’ nothin’.
 
6.8KT said:
Fumbling around with a safety, or forgetting about it in a tense moment, has gotten people killed.
The reverse is probably true also -- not having a safety has gotten people killed.
I look at it as being another part that adds complexity and that could malfunction.
On the other hand, if I had a G26 and was carrying it in my pocket... I'd be a little nervous about it, even if the trigger was properly shrouded... but only a little nervous.
For that reason, I'd probably almost rather go with a true DAO like a SCCY CPX-2 with it's long and firm trigger pull.
Yet... I'm really more interested in a P32 for pocket carry, which isn't a true DAO (it's more like a Glock)... so a good holster would be paramount.

All that said, the only small carry gun I do have is a S&W 442 with its stout, long DAO trigger... which rides in a $5 pocket holster that was "made for it" (some online retailer clearance sale) but that doesn't even completely cover the damn trigger on one side. Needless to say, when I do carry it, I'm always very cognizant of that trigger and that nothing 'pokes my pocket' from the outside.
Click to expand...

That's a training issue. I still shoot a match once in a while with my 1911s. If I'm moving from target to target I put the safety on. I've never bobbled the safety once. Proper grip on a 1911 has the thumb over the safety.
 
Texas10mm said:
That's a training issue. I still shoot a match once in a while with my 1911s. If I'm moving from target to target I put the safety on. I've never bobbled the safety once. Proper grip on a 1911 has the thumb over the safety.
Click to expand...
I agree with most of what you said, but I regard the proper grip thing as personal choice. I read numerous reports that the thumb-over-safety grip is disfunctional for many people. On way doesn’t work for all. I know it is for me. I can’t comfortably reach the trigger with my thumb over the safety. For me the both-thumbs-forward grip with strong over weak works best. That puts my strong hand thumb underneath the safety when ready to shoot
 
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