Knife Sharpening Thoughts??

[cdcmj]

http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerce/product.jsp?Mode=Cat&Cat=96&range=11&SKU=FP333

What is the general feeling on this type of sharpening method or sharpener. I am a complete novice when it comes to sharpening, as in I have never attempted it. My personal knife collection consists of an EDC kershaw ken onion leek, and a Mora fixed blade for other tasks. Both are now in need of a sharpening and I don't really know what route to go. Thanks in advance for you knife experts advice. p.s. I choose the one in the above link because it looked the easiest and most friendliest to a novice!

cdcmj

 

[Fred Fuller]

http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerce/product.jsp?Mode=Cat&Cat=96&range=11&SKU=FP333

Just pasting the link as plain text with nothing immediately before or after will work to make it hot... no need for HTML.

As to the product, I use simething similar with fillet knives but that's about it. For pocket and kitchen knives I like to use a Lansky sharpener, just the basic kit- http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/e...arch=1&SearchText=lansky&Mode=Text&SKU=SI1095 . I don't use serrated blades, just plain edges, and I have used a Lansky for better than 20 years now. They cost a bit more, they are a little more complicated but for me they work well.

hth,

lpl/nc

 

[nwilliams]

Check out swordforum.com and see what you can find out, its a great place to get ideas on knife sharpening or any other question you might have.

http://www.swordforum.com/

 

[CWL]

Spyderco Sharpmaker, easier to use than Lansky system (although I use Lansky if I really need to remove a lot of steel.)

Don't use that sharpener you describe, the ones I've seen (including ones built into can-openers) are preset at an angle that is not optimal for good knife edges. They can actually dull sharp knives like your Mora by changing the edge angle.

 

[Cromlech]

I've just put an edge back on an old Opinel, and while I am no fine craftsman (it's not an even edge), it is certainly sharp once more. I was using the Lansky system with the three coarseness choices (coarse, medium and fine).

 

[Boats]

That whole class of "drag the item over the edges or drag the edge through the carbide gizmo" are all edge wreckers.

There is little better time invested in knives than learning how to properly sharpen.

Here is an idea:

1. Buy an Old Hickory paring knife in your preferred size for $5.00 or less.
2. Buy a medium/fine grit whetstone
3. Use the knife to cut down cardboard or anything else you desire that will dull it.
4. When duller than you desire, mark the edges with a Sharpie.
5. Learn how to sharpen the knife freehand by removing the marker coloring.
6. Strop it on something as simple as your blue jean covered thigh to ensure you are NOT leaving a burr, ("wire edge"), on it.
7. Cut some more of the same medium so you can tell how you did.

For a five dollar knife and some of your time, you will eventually gain a skill that will work on any non-serrated knife, using a found rock if you have to.

About 90% of proper freehand sharpening is knowing the angle profile you want and being able to consistently repeat strokes. All the jigs or stick settings that come with Sharpmakers or Lansky rigs are doing for you is giving you the reproducible strokes that come from freehand practice.

That or buy a convex ground knife like a Bark River so that all you need is some wet/dry automotive sandpaper and a mouse pad. Barkies are by far the easiest blades to get "scary sharp" that I have ever owned.

 

[Cromlech]

About 90% of proper freehand sharpening is knowing the angle profile you want and being able to consistently repeat strokes. All the jigs or stick settings that come with Sharpmakers or Lansky rigs are doing for you are giving you the reproducible strokes that come with freehand practice.

I was using the Lansky stones without the angle thinga-ma-jobby, which is why my little Opinel is a bit messy.

I guess I need more practice.

 

[hso]

Boats is correct. You should avoid these type of sharpeners (a misnomer if there ever was one) like the plague.

There's a sticky at the top of the forum on sharpening that may serve you well, but learning to sharpen is a valuable skill that any critter with an opposable thumb and a lumpy forehead should learn.

 

[sm]

Boats post #6 I agree with!!
Great Post!

Freehand for me. I prefer Norton stones. I do NOT use oil or water.

Angles? Boats is correct with the Sharpie. Another tip(s)

Take a piece of plain cardboard with a new knife. Lay the blade onto cardboard, and lightly push forward until it "bites". Take coins and stack under spine to "measure angle". Make a note of coin(s) used for a starting point when using Boats tips on the Sharpie Marker to re- sharpen.

Stropping, again go forward just smidge tilting edge until it "bites " - this is angle to strop to remove wire edge.

Freehand is how I was raised with the tools I used, besides knives.

One cannot sharpen a Chisel , drill bit, graver, woodworking tools ...on "V" Sticks or other methods
Axe heads get a bit heavy too...

The small disposable "V" stick like Rapela, Gerber make - most associate with fishing fillet knives...not a bad deal for touch ups, for thin blade knives.
Still better to NOT learn on a crutch using gizmos - learn to do freehand.

I do Freehand and strop on plain cardboard, blue jeans, leather or palm of my hand.

Oh...toothy edges cut poly rope and tomatoes better than polished ones.
Toothy is good!


Joe Talmadge Sticky at the top - I too suggest folks read it.

 

[hso]

One of the good sharpening sites.
http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=26036

 

[Bix]

Some time back I began looking for an way for an admitted "non-knife-guy" to quickly and easily maintain his blades to a useful level of sharpness. I wound up with a Spyderco Sharpmaker, and I am pretty satisfied.

 

[Simms65]

I actually used a lansky setup for a few years and was pretty happy with it, but I have learned better recently.
As far as Barkis go.. they are incredibly easy to sharpen!
I have found that the sandpaper method works quite well for knives that have a specific bevel.
Now here is the thing if you don't want to convex an edge... just place the sandpaper on a surface that will not 'give' and.. there you go!
Between sandpaper, a leather strop, and compound, I think I have about $40 into my new sharpening system, and it is waay better than Lansky.
David

 

[JohnKSa]

I have a sharpmaker that I use for serrated knives. It's slow because the coarse stones for it aren't coarse enough.

A large cheap soft coarse hone and one large fine ceramic hone is all you need for non-serrated.

The most common error I see is people trying to get a good bevel with a hard, fine hone. Sure, it will work if you've got all day or if the knife just needs a light touchup. The problem is that the progress is so slow that people get in a hurry. It's hard to be consistent if you rush your strokes on the hone.

 

[JTW Jr.]

if you touch up the edge fequently you shouldnt ever need to go to a coarse stone , unless you damage the edge in use.

 

[sm]

Serrated.

Back in the day before Dremel Tools , Post-It-Notes, Carbon Fiber, Fancy Sharpeners were on the Market - Serrated knives did exist.

Certain trades like gunsmiths, jewelers, watchmakers and other craftsmen, had tool supply companies.

Freehand.
These craftsman did things by hand, some power tools and fancy set ups still Cannot replace what a human can do by hand...

I mean they do NOT make a Pear Shape cutting burr to cut the seats for a Pear-Shaped diamond.
You can forget finding a Radiant Cut burr to cut the seats for a Radiant cut diamond and hitting the 15,000 Rpm setting on a Foredom Flexshaft to cut these seats all at the same time...

Needle files - including Diamond Impregnated Needle files, in flat, triangular, rat-tail...etc., is what folks used to get a badly serrated edge back "right".

Pike/ Norton Slip Stones come in these shapes too- again like gunsmiths, and other trades used, for the fine finish.

Rat-Tail diamond and Norton fine slip - good to go.

Want that serrated edge "polished" - Do it by hand.
Simichrome by Happich [tm], Fabuluster [tm] ( which replaced Red, Green, Black and White Rouge for many polishing applications btw)

One used Real Chamois on a "buff stick" - need round one - you made one.
Even SemiChrome on a toothpick will polish .

Top of the spine, and have serrations for thumb for better control...Dental Floss with Semichrome will get into these crevices...

Pipe Cleaners with various compounds work great for cleaning and polishing too.


Learning to do things by hand , Freehand if you will , allows one to better understand the correct basic fundamentals.

Then - Then if one chooses to use a newer tool , one has the Concepts to use that system and know if working correctly or not as needed for that tool and task.

If one does NOT have the correct basic fundamentals, and jumps in with new tech - mistakes happen faster, and more damage can be done faster.

Best kept secret for serrated blades?
Ice pick.

Folks use a steel on plain edges, ice pick fits them serrations real nice.
Learnt that back in 1960 when I was 5 years old.

 

[JohnKSa]

if you touch up the edge fequently you shouldnt ever need to go to a coarse stone , unless you damage the edge in use.

If the edge isn't actually damaged/worn but just rolled over a little then you can use a steel (a PROPER steel) to touch it up without using a stone. And if the edge is only very slightly worn and the bevel was good before it took the wear then some work with a fine hone may help.

The problem is that repeated "touch-ups" will widen the bevel and will actually make the knife less sharp over time.

Look at this picture and you can see what it takes to get a dull blade to look like a sharp blade. Even if the wear is only minor, that's still going to require some metal removal. The overlaid red is how you want the blade to look--see how much metal has to go?. If you do a touchup (green) that will work too, but the bevel isn't as good as if you really sharpened it. And every time you touch it up, the bevel gets wider (less sharp).

 

[sm]

We done brought out the colored pencils

This is getting deep!

 

[JohnKSa]

I still got one more color, but I'm savin' it.

 

[darkknight]

survival knife bought dull

I bought a knife that was dull when i bought it and i want it to be sharp my question is whats the best way to go about making it sharp i have a diamond sharpner but this is seeming to have no effect and considering this is the first knife i've attempted to sharpen myself im prolably not helping matters to much. should i be using a wetstone or something else . the knife is made of 440 stainless steel and has all the qualities i want and could become an amazing knife it just needs work to get sharp any helps for a rookie. I would like this knife to be razor sharp in the end just need help getting their.

Btw i dont understand the diffrences and advantages/disadvantages of leaving a toothy edge or even what it is.

 

[sm]

darkknight,

I recommend reading Joe Talmadge's sticky at the top of this forum.
Take note of the steels and sharpening methods.

If you are new to sharpening, get a inexpensive knife to practice Freehand sharpening.
Afraid of scratching the blade/ finish - use tape. I use electrical tape, some use masking.

I'd be prone to -

1. Use Sandpaper and work down to finer grit.

Joe will share how leaving a "toothy" edge is often more advantageous to better performance that a "polished edge.

2. Course Whet Stone, then use finer sandpaper.

3. I am partial to Norton India Stones. Last time I "hit a lick" to sharpen a knife that sounds like yours - all I had was a Norton stone. Course side, no oil, no water on stone and used a circular motion. Big knife, small stone. For me, keeping blade on stone , keep angle consistent, also more "blade exposed to stone" if you will.
A few strokes on fine side and then stropped on a piece of scrap cardboard - nothing on the cardboard - done.

I left it "toothy" - it was going to cut polypro rope and such - toothy cuts rope better.

Best guess this was a 440 blade of some kind. Didn't worry about the brand ( forgotten by now anyway) nor the type of steel.
"Got a dull knife that needs sharpening and will use what is available to sharpen it" - basically how I look at this stuff.

Heck - by the time one frets, wrings hands and gets all sorts of gadgets out - they could have sharpened a knife twice. - someone I know.

 

[V-fib]

Most good knives carried for self defense usually have their sharpest blades fresh from the factory. With that in mind your SD knife should not be used for any general cutting purposes. You should only practice opening/closing and presentation with this knife. Then, carry another knife that you can re-sharpen for your cutting chores. I like to use a steel or diamond sharpener.

 

[bigjim]

Most good knives carried for self defense usually have their sharpest blades fresh from the factory. With that in mind your SD knife should not be used for any general cutting purposes. You should only practice opening/closing and presentation with this knife. Then, carry another knife that you can re-sharpen for your cutting chores. I like to use a steel or diamond sharpener

None of this is true for me or anybody else with basic sharpening skills. I have Yet to see a Factory knife that was not EASY to get sharper than it came. They very idea that you should not use a Self defense knife because it will never be as sharp as "factory" is absurd. A knife just sitting in a drawer or carried in your pocket will dull over time from oxidation.

There is no way around it. If you want consistently SHARP knives in your life you have to learn to sharpen. Convex edges once properly formed are the easiest to maintain. Next easiest is a traditional V edge with plenty of relief grind and a micro bevel. This edge takes slightly more skill and understanding to create but is a great cutter.

My carry knives are all convexed and each day get a 10 second strop on dry leather dusted with a 2.5 micron abrasive powder. My knives are things of legend among the small group of non-idiots I have allowed to use them.

 

[Boats]

My knives are things of legend among the small group of non-idiots I have allowed to use them.

That's the way it is isn't it?

Relatives on both sides of my family so often requested that I sharpen their kitchen knives when I visited, based on seeing how my Benchmade AFCK could out-cut everything in their houses and how my Hattori HD kitchen knives were "too scary" to use, that I began traveling with stones and strops.

 

[sm]

Mom looked like the poster child for a Band-aid company last time I let her use the sharp knives I keep at her house.

1. She likes her old crappy knives that cannot be sharpened.
2. I brought over some Old Hickory knives that I had sharpened.
3. "I do not want to use these sharp knives - they scare me" - mom.

So after looking at mom - with Jim Croce's song going through my mind...

I keep OHs at mom's and since she cannot reach "up high".
Role reversal, I now put stuff out of mom's reach so she cannot get into it - or be tempted to.

OH's currently up "there" with some really good chocolate.

Ah yes , it is good to be the eldest son, taller than the mom.
She may start to fuss when I produce my Case yellow handle Barehead Trapper with CV blades to slice ham, fruit, whatever ...

"Err mom, now if you behave I will reach "up there" and get you some of that special dark chocolate.".

Barehead Trapper gets used and Mom gets a piece of Special Dark Chocolate.

Works for me.

 

[JohnKSa]

Relatives on both sides of my family so often requested that I sharpen their kitchen knives when I visited, based on seeing how my Benchmade AFCK could out-cut everything in their houses and how my Hattori HD kitchen knives were "too scary" to use, that I began traveling with stones and strops.

Sounds familiar. My wife has some very good friends. Every so often we get a dinner invite and they tell me to bring my "sharpening stuff".