In general, what is the largest size shot in a 12Ga that patterns well out of a full choke? I'm looking at long range coyotes, so I need enough penetration at 50/60 yards. I would think turkey loads, which are typically BB to 2 would pattern well, but that seems a bit small for the penetration I'd need at 60 yds. Would #4 buck pattern OK out of a full choke, or is it a bit large?
Largest shot size for a full choke
- Thread starter suemarkp
- Start date
- Status
Virginian
Member
Larger shot will usually do a bit better with slightly less choke. I have found Improved Modified to do better, on average, from #4 on up. Full should be better than just modified. I think Dead Coyote is 'F' sized tungsten alloy shot, but if you have a fixed choke gun I would not try that.
CajunBass
Member
I never patterned their guns, but lots of fellows I hunted with shot 000 buckshot through full choked guns. They never seemed to have any trouble killing deer with them.
Personally I used mostly No 1 buck and modified chokes, but my grandfather killed many a deer with his A.H. Fox double choked full/full using No 1.
Best answer of course is to pattern your gun and see how it does.
Personally I used mostly No 1 buck and modified chokes, but my grandfather killed many a deer with his A.H. Fox double choked full/full using No 1.
Best answer of course is to pattern your gun and see how it does.
yzguy87
Member
I agree with CajunBass, the best way to see what will happen is to shoot different loads to see what the pattern will be.
Fwiw, I have a Mossberg 500 and if I take the choke out of my smooth barrel I can shoot the cheap rifled slugs into a 4-5" group at 50 yards with a steady off hand shot. If I couldn't shoot with a rifle, that's what I would do if shooting yotes at 50-60 yards.
Fwiw, I have a Mossberg 500 and if I take the choke out of my smooth barrel I can shoot the cheap rifled slugs into a 4-5" group at 50 yards with a steady off hand shot. If I couldn't shoot with a rifle, that's what I would do if shooting yotes at 50-60 yards.
loose noose
Member
My remington 1100 with cylinder bore, and a 22" barrel, will shoot 3 slugs to a 3-4" group at 100 yards from a bench. I don't think I would use anything under 00 buck for humane kills on a coyote at under 50 yards. 00 buck is only .32 caliber, and I believe you'd see a lot of wounded animals using it unfortunately.
oneounceload
member
HUH?!?!
Pattern testing for targets is done at 40 yards and a 30" circle. I can test a M choke and get 75-85% inside that circle, so where does the 60" come from, especially with a full choke?
That is just wrong.
OP - you need to pattern YOUR loads from YOUR gun to see what it likes best. Personally, I agree with the poster who is asking why a shotgun for coyotes. I would be using a .223 and waiting for colder weather when the pelts are worth something, but that is just me.
Tolkachi Robotnik
Member
Full choke okay maybe for lead only.
You can probably shoot up to BB's if lead from full choke. If you go up to T's or any buckshot then modified would be wiser. As said above, some patterning would be useful. Improved cylinder or modified would maybe do better with larger lead shot, for even patterns. The tight choke could make donut patterns or fliers.
The hevishot requires an open choke. It could damage the barrel if you shoot it through full choke or turkey super tight chokes. Some hevishot is sold with the word coyote on the outside of the box.
Depending on the cover in the draw, a shotgun can be useful for coyotes. It depends on the real estate and how close. Other times the rifles will be better, like any time they can see you first.
You can probably shoot up to BB's if lead from full choke. If you go up to T's or any buckshot then modified would be wiser. As said above, some patterning would be useful. Improved cylinder or modified would maybe do better with larger lead shot, for even patterns. The tight choke could make donut patterns or fliers.
The hevishot requires an open choke. It could damage the barrel if you shoot it through full choke or turkey super tight chokes. Some hevishot is sold with the word coyote on the outside of the box.
Depending on the cover in the draw, a shotgun can be useful for coyotes. It depends on the real estate and how close. Other times the rifles will be better, like any time they can see you first.
Virginian
Member
A chart from an OLD book. Perfecto.
Because I live in a Firearm Restriction Area - handguns or shotguns only. A handgun may be better, but I thought I may have better luck on a fleeing coyote with a shotgun. The reason would be for chicken protection -- catch the coyote snooping around the coop and blast it. But they are quick and alert -- was thinking they may be 30+ yard away before I got to them and could shoot, unless I had some warning.
According to my data tables, #4 buck at 600 fps will penetrate 7" in gelatine and T shot at 600 fps will penetrate 6". What I don't know is what range will the velocity have sunk all the way to 600 fps assuming it starts at around 1250 fps.
frankenstein406
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2011
- Messages
- 816
all the coyote guys I talked to said full choke and #4. they said they liked dead coyote but it was hard to find. also depending on distance try federal flight control 00 buck 9 pellet out of a cylinder bore. seems to hold tight at shorter distances
bubbinator
Member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2008
- Messages
- 88
Before I retired from a State LE Agency that issued 14" Rem 11-87s(very unsuccessful) the issue ammo was Hornady LEO 8 pellet buckshot. While it did pattern very well under 15 yds. from our cylinder-bore 14" guns, in other guns with other chokes, not so well. Having carried a Rem 870 for 18+ yrs w/ IC 18" bbl-the Rem 12 pellet 00 buck was my favorite. (The 9 pellet load was the darling of the Admin weenies solely due to target scoring-not officer safety!) 12 Pellet load worked good on deer drives/dog hunting in Al.
oneounceload
member
MAKster- how old is that book? They're on number 5 now. That looks like it was from the days of felt wads and paper hulls. Modern ammo tested on pattern plates should put their payload inside a 30" circle at 40 yards
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
One more vote for Federal FliteControl 00 out of an open choke barrel. Penetration shouldn't be a problem at 50 yards, neither should patterning.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/12 Gauge/12 gauge Federal FLITECONTROL 00 buc
http://www.brassfetcher.com/12 Gauge/12 gauge Federal FLITECONTROL 00 buc
The 2nd edition of the Lyman Shotshell Handbook was published in 1976. It's old, but it's after plastic shotshells, although there's no way to tell if they updated the chart.
Modern ammo puts most of the pellets inside a 30" circle at 40 yards. I suspect the chart portrays the diameter spread of all of the pellets.
GooseGestapo
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Messages
- 6,153
An aquaintance of mine was a Colorado Wildlife techician/area manager. He on several occasions won the NRA PPC National Championship "Shotgun" match. He used a Remington M870 with a 30" full choke (fixed) with 3" "BB's" for coyotes. I've even got a box of 10 Activ brand 3" nickle plated BB shot he swapped me for some 9pellet-OO he needed to shoot the shotgun match in 1990.
He said that he frequently made shots on coyotes to in excess of 80yds. He was the first person I ever heard of using a shotgun on coyotes. He stated he preferred plated BB's, but used #4Buck when he couldn't get BB's. He didn't reload shotgun...
My personal choice in coyote "shotgun" loads is a hand load of 22 #4Buck (cast from Lee gang-mould) in my 20ga pump. I shoot it through a TrueGlo "extra-full" Turkey choke. It measures 0.615" IRRC.
The pattern it shoots at 25yds is amazing... approx. 10" spread, though at 40yds, it opens to around 25" due to some of the mis-shapen shot "flying" out of the pattern. Typically a small dense cluster with 2-4 flyers... But, my shot is much, much harder than typical production buck shot.
I've not connected with a coyote with it, but two shots and two deer (~100lb does) at 30-40yds convinces me it'll work on a 40-50lb coyote.
A 12ga 3" magnum #4buck with 41pellets from a mod to extra-full choke is awsome medicine for coyotes under 50yds... where most of them are shot in my neck of the woods.
My personal longest shot on a coyote is ~110yds. Got him with a .22wmr w/30gr Remington V-max in my back yard.
Most devastating load I've shot a coyote with is a 115gr Nosler B.T. from my .257wbymag. @ ~3,350fps. At 20yds, it blew "her" in half... except for a strand of hide along the belly holding the two halves together. btw; I don't hunt deer with that load anymore.....!
FWIW; in our part of the country, the hides are never worth the trouble of skinning them out. (Georgia; doesn't get cold enough to prime the hides...).
I hunted deer extensively back in the early 80's with dogs and shotguns in E.Alabama. Patterns with a shotgun and buckshot are much like shooting groups with a rifle. Each firearm/choke tube/load is a rule unto it'self. I've seen very tight patterns with OO-buck and improved cylinders and a 30"full choke Rem. 870 that shot abysmal "dough-nut" patterns with OO-buck, but watched owner drop a doe deer at a measured 88yds with 3" load of #4buck. We counted 8 fatal pellet hits in head/neck/chest area. One hit an eye, another the brain...
Thats why we "pattern" our shotguns, and try different "loads"....
He said that he frequently made shots on coyotes to in excess of 80yds. He was the first person I ever heard of using a shotgun on coyotes. He stated he preferred plated BB's, but used #4Buck when he couldn't get BB's. He didn't reload shotgun...
My personal choice in coyote "shotgun" loads is a hand load of 22 #4Buck (cast from Lee gang-mould) in my 20ga pump. I shoot it through a TrueGlo "extra-full" Turkey choke. It measures 0.615" IRRC.
The pattern it shoots at 25yds is amazing... approx. 10" spread, though at 40yds, it opens to around 25" due to some of the mis-shapen shot "flying" out of the pattern. Typically a small dense cluster with 2-4 flyers... But, my shot is much, much harder than typical production buck shot.
I've not connected with a coyote with it, but two shots and two deer (~100lb does) at 30-40yds convinces me it'll work on a 40-50lb coyote.
A 12ga 3" magnum #4buck with 41pellets from a mod to extra-full choke is awsome medicine for coyotes under 50yds... where most of them are shot in my neck of the woods.
My personal longest shot on a coyote is ~110yds. Got him with a .22wmr w/30gr Remington V-max in my back yard.
Most devastating load I've shot a coyote with is a 115gr Nosler B.T. from my .257wbymag. @ ~3,350fps. At 20yds, it blew "her" in half... except for a strand of hide along the belly holding the two halves together. btw; I don't hunt deer with that load anymore.....!
FWIW; in our part of the country, the hides are never worth the trouble of skinning them out. (Georgia; doesn't get cold enough to prime the hides...).
I hunted deer extensively back in the early 80's with dogs and shotguns in E.Alabama. Patterns with a shotgun and buckshot are much like shooting groups with a rifle. Each firearm/choke tube/load is a rule unto it'self. I've seen very tight patterns with OO-buck and improved cylinders and a 30"full choke Rem. 870 that shot abysmal "dough-nut" patterns with OO-buck, but watched owner drop a doe deer at a measured 88yds with 3" load of #4buck. We counted 8 fatal pellet hits in head/neck/chest area. One hit an eye, another the brain...
Thats why we "pattern" our shotguns, and try different "loads"....
Last edited:
CajunBass
Member
I wonder if that's where the idea of open choke and buckshot came from. I never knew ANYBODY who used 00 buckshot. They shot either 000 or No 1 almost to a man. I've never patterned any 00 because No 1 has always worked in every gun I've ever owned, so I stuck with it. The one gun I shot 000 in, a Remington 1100 mangnum shot them scarey tight but I never killed a deer with it. It did well with No 1 also.
I wonder if there is something about the size, or they way they're packed that makes 00 not shoot well out of tight choke guns, but work well in more open chokes.
MattShlock
Member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
- Messages
- 787
Personally #4 buckshot is the largest I'd put thru a Full choke, certainly Extra Full like coyote type chokes. It's really large what-they-used-to-call "Swan Shot."
- Status