Lawful CCW and dealing with "ANTI" Buinesses

[HankB]

Lawful CCW and dealing with "ANTI" Businesses

This story is similar to the San Antonio "Applebee's" thread from last year, where business pressures made a local franchise end it's policy of prohibiting carrying of firearms by persons holding concealed handgun licenses.

I recently made a business trip to Minnesota, which last year passed "shall issue" CCW legislation. (No reciprocity with Texas yet, so I wasn't actually carrying.) When I met up with a couple of colleagues, we went by the hotel restaurant, where a sign said they " . . . banned guns on these premesis."

It was explained to me that this was the Minnesota equivalent of Texas' PC30.06 signs, so we honored their policy and went elsewhere for dinner.

Next morning, at the breakfast buffet near the pool, I encountered the hotel manager and courteously let him know I was made to feel MOST unwelcome by the restaurant's sign, but I and my colleagues had honored it by dining elsewhere . . . and that in the future, I'd most likely STAY elsewhere, too.

He was most courteous, very receptive to my viewpoint (we discussed CCW, licensing, the fact that people with licenses are certified "good guys" and so forth and so on) and he told me that he'd make it his business that day to have the sign removed. And that he'd already been considering it.

It was gone by that afternoon!

In a similar vein, my buddies informed me that a nearby restaurant had also posted signs against licensed CCW . . . but after several of them had complained to the manager there (and passed out little business cards that basically said "no guns = no $$$") those signs came down, too.

Lesson: Unless the business owner is RABIDLY "anti" . . . sometimes all it takes to have a sign removed is to point out the good business reasons for NOT banning lawful carry.

 

[sturmruger]

One of my favorite little computer shops had a sign up last summer. After I and several other customer got in touch with them they took it down. Every time I go in there to buy something I mention how glad I am that they took the sign down.

 

[Cougar]

With our new and somewhat vague and confusing CCW law here in Ohio, we're having a heck of a time with all of the anti-CCW hysteria and almost every business has posted a 'No CCW here' sign. I've asked several why and they spout the 'company policy' BS. I then ask "well, who is responsible for your company policy?" and get a blank stare. Either they don't know and don't want to look any stupider, or they just got caught in a lie. Either way the conversation is usually over right then and there. I've tried to push a little harder for the information, but get stonewalled every time. :banghead:

I'm going to have to try to get some 'no CCW = no $$$' cards made up. Or is there some place we can order them cheaper???

 

[OF]

That's awesome! Good point about the stores not necessarily being rabid anti's, just ignorant.

We can cure ignorance.

- Gabe

 

[Shane333]

GRD,

You're right, but only the innocently ignorant can be cured. Some people are willfully ignorant. I'm not sure there's much hope for them.

 

[Zundfolge]

Lesson: Unless the business owner is RABIDLY "anti" . . . sometimes all it takes to have a sign removed is to point out the good business reasons for NOT banning lawful carry.

I believe most businesses that put up "no CCW" type signs don't do so because they have any strong feelings one way or another about CCW. My guess is they are either 1) trying to avoid legal liablility should one of their customers have to shoot someone and/or 2) believe it or not they think that by putting these signs up they are avoiding the controversy.

As long as us "good guys" remind them which side their bread is buttered on and hold to boycotts of businesses who refuse to take the signs down I expect we'll win more "converts to the cause".

I'm going to have to try to get some 'no CCW = no $$$' cards made up. Or is there some place we can order them cheaper???

http://noguns-nomoney.com/ EDIT ... oops, they are out of cards right now

here's some other links:
https://www.ohioccw.org/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=107 <- (Cougar, you want this one)
http://misc-stuff.nexuswebs.net/nogunsnomoney.htm

 

[Penforhire]

It seems to me proprietors would put up signs like that to reassure the sheep. There are plenty of people, maybe even a majority (of the public I meet) who would freak if you happened to flash or print. They somehow feel safer if they think no legal guns are present. So these owners are likely trying to keep the sheep eating and drinking.

You might successfully argue that leaving the signs down keeps the most people happy, both sheep and not-sheep. Sort of a don't ask, don't tell. But I can see the initial thinking of a given proprietor may be more than avoiding liability.

 

[Dex Sinister]

I'm going to have to try to get some 'no CCW = no $$$' cards made up. Or is there some place we can order them cheaper???

There are a number of places on the internet that sell intro "free" business cards for just S&H fees, [watch out for ads on the back!] but a lot of the time the Office Depot, Office Max, Staples sorts of stores will sell a 1-color raised business card at a loss-leader price.

I see that Office Max has something in the $5.99 range, but their web page is so badly written, I can't tell what the quantity is. <snort>

Dex

 

[srschick]

Or... you could buy the do-it-yourself business cards and create your own.
Or we could all get together and design a card to share with everyone so we all have a common design.

 

[GigaBuist]

I'd ask them why they don't have signs up prohibiting paedophiles, murderers, rapists, radioactive material, and the Taliban from coming to dinner.

Maybe Israel should just post signs at the border: "No bomb carrying allowed. Thank you."

 

[Tom Servo]

I've been frequenting a great independent record-shop here for years. About six months ago, they put up a "No Firearms Permitted on These Premises" sign. The store's in a neighborhood that gets pretty rough at night, and there had been several armed robberies in the area recently, so I could understand the spasmodic knee motions.

Still, I loved these guys, so I called the manager, who recognized me from my description, and invited him for coffee. I told him that I had been lawfully carrying a firearm in his shop for quite awhile. His eyebrows shot up, and he said, "but that's illegal!" I presented my permit and prompted him to read it. He obviously had no idea. He asked me if alot of people had these, and I responded that yes, and that I was surely not the only person who carried in his shop. He responded that in all the times we'd talked, he'd never noticed, and I said that was the point.

He said that he was worried about being robbed, and I asked him if a sign would really stop someone who was intent on breaking several other more stringent laws. He had a concern about someone "going vigilante," at which point I asked him to recall ANY such shooting that he had heard about in the recent past. He couldn't. Then I asked him when the last time was he'd heard about an armed crime in the area. It had been that morning.

The sign was down after lunch. He asked only that I not make the fact that I'm carrying common knowledge, which isn't something I'd have done anyway. We've talked a few more times on the subject, and one of these days, I'm going to convince him to come shooting with me.

It's ironic that in rural Georgia, guns are just a fact of life, but in the crime-ridden urban areas, they're frowned upon. Still, it goes to show that a quiet, level voice and a little patient education can go a long way.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Erik F, I like your style.

If each of us converted a fence-sitter a couple of times per year, we'd be able to win back our freedoms in no time.

 

[jimpeel]

we could all get together and design a card to share with everyone so we all have a common design.

An excellent idea. Having a common design would be best instead of attempting to tailor to every state.

 

[Coronach]

With our new and somewhat vague and confusing CCW law here in Ohio, we're having a heck of a time with all of the anti-CCW hysteria and almost every business has posted a 'No CCW here' sign. I've asked several why and they spout the 'company policy' BS. I then ask "well, who is responsible for your company policy?" and get a blank stare. Either they don't know and don't want to look any stupider, or they just got caught in a lie. Either way the conversation is usually over right then and there. I've tried to push a little harder for the information, but get stonewalled every time.

I'm going to have to try to get some 'no CCW = no $$$' cards made up. Or is there some place we can order them cheaper???

One thing to remember: In Ohio, and other states most likely, some businesses are required by law to post such signs, based upon what they sell and the details of the CCW law. Usually if there is alcohol sold for consumption on premises even if only some of the time there will likely be a sign, and this is not by the shop-owner's choice. There's nothing he can do about it. Its not his fault the law is stupid.

And I concur that most of the time the signs do up out of a desire to make the sheep think that this good business is doing everything they can to protect their customers. And, probably, the store owner thinks that the only people who would be packing heat under the new law are a bunch of toothless hillbillies named "Cooter" and "Jed" who wouldn't be patronizing his store. Showing him how wrong he is can lead to good things happening.

Mike