LC Smith - potentially deep and scary waters for me.

[ApacheCoTodd]

So I have an opportunity to get an LC Smith from a fella who is very motivated to sell it, not computer savvy and wants me to come up with a price.

He's a nice old fella in moderately dire financial straits so I want to give him fair money leaving me some room should I decide to pass it along rather than use it.

It has a nice tight lock-up and the action against snap caps is crisp. There is plenty of arc left on the return of the top lever. Butt pad needs work but hell, it's old and is still solid - just ugly.

Finish looks to be somewhere around 60%+ but wood quality is still high.

It clearly has been used but well cared for - just what I want, a quality and very pretty shooter, not a museum piece.

Here are a couple photos. I haven't opened it up to see the actual model and grade stamps nor steel grade and barrel markings and am disinclined to do so unless absolutely necessary. He's pretty old so I don't think that he wants to take it apart and I always worry a bit about disassembling a not-yet-bought antique.

Any input at all would be greatly appreciated.

Serial number appears to be 2080** 6 digits. Best I can find is apparently 1907? It is an ejector model. And I understand that the straight stock was supposed to be a factory option/upgrade.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Couple more photos...

I could only get 4 of the little pics in the OP.

 

[eastbank]

it,s a high grade L C SMITH shotgun and worth a pretty penny. it should be appraised by a qualified LC SMITH collector for the true worth,that being said its up to you as to how much you want to tell him about it.there is buying a firearm and then there is BUYING a firearm. your choice. eastbank.

 

[BigG]

That long tang is an indicator of high quality. That's all I know.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Thanks EASTBANK, then it's probably worth me risking removing the lock plate after all.

BIGG I had not noticed that being a determining factor yet. Thanks, I'll account for the long tang now as well.

 

[huntsman]

What's on the water table and flats? Why do you want to remove the lock plate? IIRC if the locks are tripped with the barrel off you need a tool to recock so.. Brophy's book is the bible for the LC.

http://www.amazon.com/L-Smith-Shotguns-William-Brophy/dp/0917714091

 

[rcmodel]

Yea.
Don't attempt to take the lock-plates off.

I was also under the impression the 'grade' was always stamped or engraved right on top of the right barrel in plain sight later on?

The engraving pattern looks like a Specialty grade.
See it about halfway down this page.
http://www.lcsmith.org/shotguns/1913grades.html

Pre-1913 grades.
http://www.lcsmith.org/shotguns/pre1913grades.html

rc

 

[Virginian]

Almost any Elsie without a cracked buttstock is a collector's item. Straight stock and splinter fore arm are also a plus. Good wood and engraving. Single trigger is a minus. Doesn't look like it has too much drop even. Are you wanting to shoot it or just as an investment? Should be a fine shooting gun.

 

[Armored farmer]

Better try ti get that one, brother. They don't make em like that anymore.

I have a 20ga sxs LC.

 

[oneounceload]

Thanks EASTBANK, then it's probably worth me risking removing the lock plate after all.

No, it isn't - it IS worth having a QUALIFIED gunSMITH looking at it though

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

HUNTSMAN I waited to see whether or not it is worth breaking down the shotgun to see the "watertable". Based upon the above observations, it looks like it is worth it. Sometimes, in front of the owner, breaking one of these down can get hinky. Looks like this one is worth it.

RC Here it notes that beneath the left lockplate is the place to get the determination as to grade and model: http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/grade.html I won't open it until I need to though. RC - never a wasted post!

VIRGINIAN I'm in it for a shooter but thanks for the extra insights. Nice to know!

KBBAILEY I'm on it brother! Want it next to my Belgian Citori!

ONEOUNCELOAD Thanks for the "tap out" heads up but fortunately, it's in my skill set if needed prior to purchase. As noted above, if the info is in fact apparent upon break down, I'll pay and get it home first. I always appreciate heads up regarding caution in any case.

Thanks all. I want to square this fella away but also want a legacy gun for me at a price.
I'm leaning towards $1,100.+/- Am I outa line on this? No post purchase recriminations... Just wondering.

 

[TomADC]

Fine looking LC Smith, I have a AH Fox Sterlingworth that my great grandfather bought new in 1913, just had the recoil pad replaced after a hundred years the original just crumpled away. Mines not a high grade just a field gun, and a heirloom. Going to my oldest grandson when I go!
Btw these things are complex leave to side plates etc for experts.

 

[oneounceload]

Go here for a lot of info:

http://www.lcsmith.org/

 

[horsemen61]

Buy it

 

[Speedo66]

Oh, so that's how wood and metal are supposed to meet.

Very nice!

 

[gunut]

that is a grade 3E in about 60/65% overall condition with a Hunter 1 trigger and straight stock....Id say the value would be 2600-3200 with some folks willing to up that by a couple hundred because of the straight stock....

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

that is a grade 3E in about 60/65% overall condition with a Hunter 1 trigger and straight stock....Id say the value would be 2600-3200 with some folks willing to up that by a couple hundred because of the straight stock....

Thanks to everyone above. Not a wasted post to be sure. I have it now in hand and on this particular one the model/grade is under the left barrel.
You got it GUNUT, 3E, straight stock, ejector and Hunter SST upgrades. I'm getting that you are very aware of all that though.

I went to get it and was certain that I'd find some flaw overlooked in my anticipation but if anything it looks better to me. I'll get some better daylight photos and blast them up.

Yippee - frikken - skippee!

What a month:
1911 .38 Special Gold Cup
Second generation Woodsman
Combat Magnum
Gen4 Glock 22 NIB w/ Streamlight/laser

And this! All at estate sale numbers. I'm shifting my birthday to August this year!

 

[rcmodel]

So, come on, fess up.

How bad did you do the guy on the price?

rc

 

[gunut]

by the way do not mess with the pad as it could be original to the gun....looks like it could of possibly at one time been leather faced...If you go to the LCS collectors site you can join, and order a letter on your gun; it will tell you the guns original configuration when it left the factory...maybe even where it was sent and possibly to who....for as nice a gun as that Id do it....

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

So, come on, fess up.

How bad did you do the guy on the price?

rc

What I ended up doing was looking at the offer I have listed above, taking into account some money saved for another "sumpin" and arrived a bit above the previously noted number with a little room to maneuver in the case of "if" and "as such".

The other "sumpin" will have to and can wait. I don't like saying actual numbers as they have a way of being translated into value "lore" on the internet. Basically, I don't want to be the source of people saying: "I see these going for..." when this is not indicative of the market.

For our parts, my offer was nearly twice what he'd been receiving shopping it around to gun shops (no surprise and no fault) and he was tickled to have cash in his hand representing a number welllllll beyond any investments he has yet realized in his advanced age.

Me? Less and I would sincerely have felt bad for taking advantage and much more... well, I'd still be as happy as a baby in a new diaper - just not as happy as one in a new cotton diaper!

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

by the way do not mess with the pad as it could be original to the gun....looks like it could of possibly at one time been leather faced...If you go to the LCS collectors site you can join, and order a letter on your gun; it will tell you the guns original configuration when it left the factory...maybe even where it was sent and possibly to who....for as nice a gun as that Id do it....

Got it NUT. I was waiting to have it in hand and then joining the site. Here are some better ass end photos. You probably already know this but the integrity of the butt is far more sound than would normally be guessed at by the photos. Quite a pad there!

There's a bit of toe splay from the gun rack but it doesn't bother me and is still quite sound down there.

 

[Frostbite]

Beautiful shotgun. I had never heard about them, thanks for the education.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

Sweet Shotgun.

 

[rcmodel]

Never heard of them?

Google L.C. Smith, Parker Bros, Ithaca, & Winchester Model 21.

The finest shotguns ever made in U.S. History.

Although some would argue that Baker should be included in that exclusive list too?

rc

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks you rc, helpful as always.