lead ammo questions!

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

possum

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
8,941
Location
Concord, N.C.
i was up at Dick's sporting goods yesterday and bought some ultramax 180gr cnl rds to shoot in my xd. I was happy to relise that they give a 20 percent military discount which i never knew before.

#1)so I was wondering how many rds should i fire before the lead fouling will be dangerous to keep shooting with? I normally shoot 200rds or more per range trip but use primarially fmj's and i have , only a small experience with lead rds.

#2) so do i need to take cleanning supplies with me to the range? and clean after a 100rds or so or will it be ok to shoot 200rds plus with out cleanning the barrel? I just don't want the lead to foul up and blow my gun up.

#3)speaking of fouling up those of you that have shot ultramax, does it foul anymore than other types of lead ammo?

thanks i appreciate the replies i know i will get, thanks again!
 
Shoot as much as you like, the lead fouling will not be cumulative (to any great extent). I regularly shoot 200+ lead rounds and see little difference between 300 rounds or 30 rounds. The harder the lead, the less the fouling.
Of course, clean the gun after shooting, you likely WILL see some lead fouling in the barrel. Shooters choice lead remover along with a brass ChoreBoy pad un-raveled and some of it wrapped around a brush (toranado) really cuts the lead out of the barrel for me.
 
Dr. Dickie,
Thank you for the reply, and you confirmed my thoughts on the sittuation, thanks, and thank you for the great advice on the cleanning products and accessories, and method. that is one thing about guns you never stop learning!:)
 
There's also the old trick of occasionally sending a few jacketed bullets downrange to scrape out the lead.
 
.38 special,
welcome to THR i haven't seen you here before, welcome it is always good to see new folks on the site! with every new member there is possibly years of experience, and knowledge, glad to have you along!

yes that is very true and in the 150-200rds of lead i have had experience with, i fired a mag of fmj's right after the lead , before putting the gun away and the majority of the fouling went out of the barrel. I think i will take my normal alotment of ammo to the range now of the lead variety, and a magazine or two of fmj's to finish out the range session! great advise and thank you!
 
The harder the lead, the less the fouling.
Click to expand...
Not always true.
There's also the old trick of occasionally sending a few jacketed bullets downrange to scrape out the lead.
Click to expand...
That old trick is a sure way to iron the lead in the bore making cleaning more difficult.
 
Thanks for the welcome, Possum.

That old trick is a sure way to iron the lead in the bore making cleaning more difficult.
Click to expand...
I've been told that before, but have never personally experienced it. I find that, on guns which lead foul badly, it is easier to remove a touch of lead left in the bore after "cleaning" with a few FMJs than it is to remove lumps and streaks of even soft, relatively pure lead.

I'd be interested in hearing any evidence - scientific or otherwise - concerning the "ironing lead into the bore" topic.
 
There's also the old trick of occasionally sending a few jacketed bullets downrange to scrape out the lead.
Click to expand...
Beretta specifically and emphatically recommends against this practice in their autopistols.

One of the few 9mm Glock blowups I've heard of was reported by the owner to be the result of firing a single jacketed round through the gun after shooting a box of lead (unjacketed) ammo.
 
Interesting. I'd love to see some documentation. (Not that I disbelieve you. I'd just like to get details. Internet, you know...;) )

< edit > I went to Beretta's site and couldn't find any warnings about the practice. Do you know of a link?
 
There is a speciific cleaning tool made for this purpose. The Lewis Lead Remover. It consist of a modified cleaning rod that pulls a brass screen through the bore and it will drag nearly all the lead out, with no harm.

Here is a link for the Remover.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/productdetail.aspx?p=21587

Myself, I will clean with Ed's Red, using brass brush and patches until most all of the fouling is out. I never use steel brushes. If it is stubborn, I will set the barrel aside with a bore wetted with Kroil. Overnight, Kroil will get under the fouling and be easier to brush out.

Jerry
 
I went to Beretta's site and couldn't find any warnings about the practice. Do you know of a link?
Click to expand...
You gotta be kidding me...

Go to the Beretta site.

Under the "Customer Support" menu, click on "Manual Request"

Look for this quote in the first paragraph. "Owner's manuals for selected Beretta firearms are available on our Beretta International website."

Click on "Beretta International" in that sentence on the website. When the site comes up click on "I accept"

Now select a centerfire Beretta Autopistol manual. I haven't checked each and every manual, but I know the warning is in the following manuals:92, PX4, 9000, Cougar, and the 90-Two.

Now look under the "Ammunition" section of the manual.
 
Ah, good. Sarcasm. Just what I was hoping for.

< edit > Thank you for removing most of the sarcastic bits, and thank you for the link. Perhaps you might keep in mind that folks looking to expand their knowledge tend to respond better to honey than vinegar.
 
It wasn't the best approach, I agree--but I do get frustrated when it appears that "my internet" works much better than everyone else's...
 
I had a 92 fs and I loaded and fired hardcast lead out of it, even thought the manual said no lead ammunition specifically. I reload for all my guns and shoot a ton of hard cast lead a year. My 92 FS was the only gun I owned that would keyhole lead bullets after 30 or so rounds. They would hit the target sideways at 15 yards. The lead bullets left shreads of lead in the barrel.

I no longer own the 92 FS, sold it last year. Use the choreboy method and get some Mpro 7 gun cleaner. Its also sold as Hoppes elite gun cleaner, excellent stuff and no harsh chemicals or smell.
 
It wasn't the best approach, I agree--but I do get frustrated when it appears that "my internet" works much better than everyone else's...
Click to expand...
I looked. I didn't see it. Sorry. And now, rather than simply being grateful to have learned something new, I'm bummed out at having been treated rudely by yet another stranger on the internet.

But whatever. I'm not foolish enough to think that pointing out bad manners on the web actually accomplishes anything, I guess.
 
...I'm bummed out at having been treated rudely by yet another stranger on the internet.
Click to expand...
Well, for every rude person on the web, like me, there are lots of polite and helpful people out there. You just have to learn how not to let the sphincters get to you. ;)
 
I'm mystified . . .

Back in the days when I was shooting 2700 bullseye matches I put over 100,000 rounds of lead ammo through each of my Gold Cup and my S&W 52 without a hint of any trouble. Today, everywhere I look, people are complaining about leading. Are the bores of today's guns less finely finished or did I get away with it because I was shooting mid-range loads, or what?
 
A properly lubed mid-range load should not cause leading problems. Perhaps the makers are loading too hot these days. Once upon a time, probably still but I am out of touch with target shooting, lead wadcutters were the only way to go. Don't work in autos, of course.

With reasonable loads the lead is easy to remove. It often comes out of the barrel in a sort of flake. If you use too hot a load or the lube is poor a small amount of the lead melts off the base of the bullet as it is fired - then you get a fine lead build up.

A hot load is actually detrimental to lead bullet accuracy but if you are shooting an auto the bullet energy is required to cycle the action so your load options may be limited.
 
CLP, Hoppe's etc.

Some firearm lubes and cleaners down't work well when mixed.
I used to use Hoppe's to dissolve fouling and I used CLP as a lube. Found out that they didn't work well together. CLP seeps under fouling and allows one to wipe the lead out. CLP is a much better lubricant and it has been good for my lead revolver loads. Run A patch soaked down the barrel before leaving the range. This allows the stuff time to work.
If you think about it, some products dissolve fouling and some are cleaning agents that allow easy removal and work as lubes. I don't like to mix the two.
 
SoCal.
SWC rounds sometimes have a feed problem in certain autos, it just depends on the magazine/feed ramp geometry. It sounds as though you are in luck.

However, the round needs to provide enough energy to cycle the action too. It sounds as though you are OK here also.

The final factor is what type of powder loading the maker used in order to give the round enough energy to cycle the action. If you think about it, the energy from a regular jacketed round in an auto can be quite high. The pistol is designed to function with that amount of energy. In an attempt to match the jacketed bullet energy with a lead bullet the maker could actually be pushing the lead bullet near to its "leading" limit.

Just an idea but I think it is possible. You could try another shape and weight of bullet. Something a little heavier but lower velocity to keep the energy constant.
 
The problem with shooting jacketed bullets after lead is that the lead residue inhibits the bullet movement and thus leads to higher pressures.
For the same reason you don't shoot rifles with oil in the barrel.
The Glock .40 kabooms after shooting lead result from lead buildup in the front of the chamber. This leads to the cartridge not being fully cambered, or the bullet being pressed into the cartridge. In both cases, this, the unsupported Clock chamber and the already high .40 pressure add up to a kaboom.
 
here it is

WARNING: The extended use of +P or +P+ ammunition may
decrease component part service life expectancy. DO NOT use
sub-machine gun ammunition because the chamber pressure
may reach or exceed proof load pressure. Lead bullets have a
tendency to cause bore leading, which may dramatically increase
the discharge pressure. Be sure to remove all chamber and bore
lead accumulation after each use. DO NOT shoot cartridges with
jacketed bullets through a barrel previously fired with lead bullets
before the bore is thoroughly deleaded.
DRY FIRING/”DUMMY” ROUNDS

from barretta manual


http://www.berettaservices.com/Modu...cfiles/PDF Manuali In Catalogo/90 two_eng.pdf
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

P
  • Locked
ultramax for the 1st time!
Replies
8
Views
723
Bazooka Joe71
B
S
  • Locked
Cleaning Lead with Kroil?
Replies
16
Views
3K
EvanWilliams
E
T
  • Locked
Lead and jacketed ammo for clean shooting.
Replies
9
Views
794
timbo
T
C
  • Locked
Question on ammo and warranties
Replies
4
Views
414
crew590
C
B
  • Locked
What is this stuff on my patch?
Replies
6
Views
936
Bernie Lomax
B
Back
Top