lead bullet accuracy

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roval

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do any of you have some lead bullet loads that you won't give up over plated or powder coated in spite of the mess due to accuracy.

i have a very accurate dardas 200 gr lswc load that seemed more consistently accurate over other 200 g swc loads that were powder coated. i don't know if it was due to being plain lead with a good lube or due to the consistency of the casting. too bad he's closed shop. i will try the same bulllet from MBC

is there a significant accuracy benefit over plain lead vs PC or plated in some loads?

for my 44 mag 240 swc loads i don't notice a difference between plain lead and pc.
 
Not sure about the "mess". If properly sized and lubed and of the correct hardness for velocity there should be no almost no mess. I use pc bullets for some generic uses but im not fond of the smell and my wifes not fond of me messing with it in the house. Ive noticed no difference in accuracy. To me powder coating is a solution for not wanting to lube bullets. I could take it or leave it but notice no difference but the smellz.
 
Obturation said:
Not sure about the "mess". If properly sized and lubed and of the correct hardness for velocity there should be no almost no mess. I use pc bullets for some generic uses but im not fond of the smell and my wifes not fond of me messing with it in the house. Ive noticed no difference in accuracy. To me powder coating is a solution for not wanting to lube bullets. I could take it or leave it but notice no difference but the smellz.
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the mess with shooting, check out the ruger as well as when reloading gunking up the crimp and seating dies .i shot more plain lead that outing with the revolvers but still less than my usual shooting with predominantly plated or pc loads and yet the gun is much more dirty. not as big a deal as i clean the gun but my hands were dirtier as well.
 

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Yes I have an extremely accurate .38 Special load I will not stop loading but it has nothing to do with mess because I see no excessive mess.

It's a 158gr LSWC bullet over W231.
 
roval said:
the mess with shooting, check out the ruger as well as when reloading gunking up the crimp and seating dies .i shot more plain lead that outing with the revolvers but still less than my usual shooting with predominantly plated or pc loads and yet the gun is much more dirty. not as big a deal as i clean the gun but my hands were dirtier as well.
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Do you figure its the lube used making its way on to the frame and cylinder? If so use a harder lube. I have never noticed any difference in amount of schmoo on a gun if all other components are the same but with just a different projectile. I guess its possible but i cant see the bullet lube making it any more dirty, sometimes you may see lube on the muzzle. Maybe the lube is too soft? I would suggest at least washing your brass with some hot water and some detergent at least before reloading, you can risk damage to the dies if running the cases through gritty.
 
Obturation said:
Do you figure its the lube used making its way on to the frame and cylinder? If so use a harder lube. I have never noticed any difference in amount of schmoo on a gun if all other components are the same but with just a different projectile. I guess its possible but i cant see the bullet lube making it any more dirty, sometimes you may see lube on the muzzle. Maybe the lube is too soft? I would suggest at least washing your brass with some hot water and some detergent at least before reloading, you can risk damage to the dies if running the cases through gritty.
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i don't cast my own. i just buy bullets. dardas used a soft lube. the back of my shooting hand felt quite greasy.
 
roval said:
i don't cast my own. i just buy bullets. dardas used a soft lube. the back of my shooting hand felt quite greasy.
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That could be it, do you have any you could measure? Maybe they were a bit more accurate due to a slightly larger diameter? Have you used any other commercial cast bullets by any other maker to compare? I generally use laser cast if im going to buy my projectiles, ive found them to be very high quality and ive never had lead fouling from them, otherwise i use a linotype alloy or some lead i find scrap but i gas check it if i dont know composition. In my opinion plain hardcast is the best for most uses, im not real hot on plated lead but some guys love it. Maybe find a mold you like and make your own , then you can fine tune the details and never run out.
 
I shoot only Hytek Coated lead with one exception. I do like the accuracy of the swaged HBWC. I'm guessing the mess you refer to is the residue after shooting. That generally is all from the lube and some powders to shoot a little cleaner than others. I'll stick with the old standby Bullseye with the hbwc. For distance up to 25 yards it just seems to shoot great in just about every .38/.357 I've ever tried. Last purchase I bought 3-4k from Zero and when those are gone, I'll probably wind up just using the Coated bullets. The lead hbwc might be slightly more accurate but since the coated are cleaner to load and shoot, I'll probably give up the slight edge in accuracy. Plus the coated bullets give many more options. I can load then down around 700-700 fps for light target loads or push them as hot as I want for longer range or hunting with no worries about leading the barrel. I do find the coated lead more accurate at top end loads. I wound up with a 180gr Hytek Coated Load using Missouri Pugnose Bullet pushed to around 1350fps that I use for Hog Hunting and it is more accurate in my guns than the jacketed bullets I've tried.
 
I'll try mbc 200 gr lswc. i don't have any plans on casting my own bullets. i loaded up the last of the bullets a while ago but they were sized .452 no special sizing.
 
I very much prefer lead.
The "mess" has never even been a consideration.
I shoot so much more than I would normally be able to. Casting my own, I can load .44 magnum or .45 Colt for less than $100/1000. When you're loading that cheap, you can shoot all you like without worrying about breaking the bank.
Plus I like big bore revolvers and they go with cast bullets like peanut butter and jelly.
 
I'll be shooting a130g 7-08 @2500fps and a 55g 223 around that velocity as well today. Home cast lead,barely any lube,a swipe filling in above GC........ zero mess. Bore shines like a mirror.

Now there usually is a mess when one of my cast varmint rigs gets taken afield...... it comes right after a fine red mist.
 
In general speaking the plain lead will be more accurate due to the surface being all the same. When you get to HyTec or PC bullets most cases the coating is not the same thickness all the way around. The only thing that is dirty is your fingers from handling the bullet and you seating die, which I have to stop and clean on a regular basis. Most shooters are not accurate enough to shoot/see the difference. Rifle is different all the way around due to the fact that the lube must last the full length of the barrel or you will get leading. This is where I see the coated/plated bullets being more consistent. Not that lead can't do it, it just easier with the coated.
 
I have a 185 gr. SWC load in 45 ACP that's going nowhere because it's so accurate. I have no mess with it either loading or shooting it. My finger and thumb get a little greasy when loading but It's nothing like an oil change on my jeep. :eek:o_O:D
 
roval said:
is there a significant accuracy benefit over plain lead vs PC or plated in some loads?
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Lead has been tested against other bullet types, using machine rests. https://www.bullseyeforum.net In general (if i remember correctly) top accuracy is with jacketed, then lead, then the others.

There are many different lubes. I used the NRA 50/50 Alox/Bees wax for many years. Then the Alox type was changed. Not the same. No lube star any more. Tried 2 different 50/50s, both not to my liking, leading deposits.

Trying RCBS Pistol lube, very dirty. Coats the revolvers back to the sights in 357 & 44 mags.

May try RCBS rifle lube next, one day? Home cast is getting to be a lot of work . Screenshot_20190129-084813.jpg Screenshot_20190129-084613.jpg Screenshot_20190129-084511.jpg
 
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Obturation said:
Not sure about the "mess". If properly sized and lubed and of the correct hardness for velocity there should be no almost no mess. I use pc bullets for some generic uses but im not fond of the smell and my wifes not fond of me messing with it in the house. Ive noticed no difference in accuracy. To me powder coating is a solution for not wanting to lube bullets. I could take it or leave it but notice no difference but the smellz.
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This. When folks complain of the "mess" with lubing bullets they're either 1) BS-ing, or 2) Don't know how to set up a lubrisizer.

Blue68f100 said:
In general speaking the plain lead will be more accurate due to the surface being all the same. When you get to HyTec or PC bullets most cases the coating is not the same thickness all the way around.
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DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!! You CANNOT make a bullet more accurate by adding a coating to it. The only thing it can possibly do is exactly what Blue said, be uneven on the bullet causing it to lose concentricity. Of course your average shooter wouldn't know this if he/she weren't shooting past 25 yds. or so.

The only exception might be HiTek, which is a very thin coating. I got some HiTek coated .45 bullets in on a deal and they shot about as well as my own lubed bullets, at least out to 50 yds. I decided I was going to try HiTek and went to their website for more information. In the instructions, the 9th of 9 steps said "Repeat the process....". To heck with that. I can size and lube 30 per minute on my Star.

35W
 
roval said:
i was talking about my 200 gr lead swc45 acp load that was very accurate. the 357 revolver shown shot a lot of 158 gr lswc 38 special loads that day. those were .358
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Sorry, misunderstood. Why show the revolvers if its not the gun that was shooting the dirty ammo? Thats where i got confused.
 
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Lead- Swaged is more accurate then cast. No air bubbles in swaged.

Swaged is best used for target loads. Tho some swaged are harder then we think.

There is a patent where the swaged bullets are heat treated, then water cooled, making bullets harder. This works when there is about 2% antimony in the alloy. Full hardness is reached in about 8 days to 2 weeks. A higher % of antimony, speeds up the harding. http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5464487.html

See "Example", bottom of linked page.

Home cast can be heat treated.
 
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Dardas made great bullets and I loaded, shot, & reloaded his H&G#130 LSWC "button bullet" for many years. Unfortunately he retired and it appears that nobody bought his business.
Considered to be a tad more accurate by the Bullseye clan is the swaged bullets by Magnus. Considered to be a tad more accurate that swaged would be the FMJ's by Zero. It would probably take a 2.5" @ 50 yds B/E shooter or a Ransom Rest to notice the difference. Very few B/E shooters use coated bullets. All above are "as a general rule" & would have to be in a load worked up for a particular gun/combo. IMHO.
 
Obturation said:
Because there was no mention in the original post of a 357, only the 45's and the 44. Thats why i am still confused.
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just showing what i consider to be quite messy.

the 158 gr lswc i shot over the regular 3.5 g bullseye load also seemed more accurate than the same load with powder coated 158 swc. those were dardas bullets also.
 
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