Leaked Documents: NRA Racked Up $24 Million in Legal Bills

[SharpDog]

I fail to see the reason for remaining aboard a sinking ship.



So your sole source of information is another discussion forum?

So what do you plan to do to help secure our 2A?

 

[GEM]

This your problem. You are locked into supporting the leader and organization over the cause. It is almost cult like. We don’t oppose the NRA and Trump we support the RKBA. If they don’t do the job, they can move on.
About precedent, yes there were previous executive actions. They were bad. So loyalty to the leader excuses his? He was not supposed to be an anti and thus set the precedent for pro gun presidents to ban and confiscate previously legal items.


Last, if you don’t like opinions here, the free market suggests you shop elsewhere.

 

[BSA1]

1. I follow proposed and enacted guns across the nation.

2. I write on a regular basis to my Senator and Representative in Washington, D.C. about gun legislation and closely watch how they vote on other Conservative issues that are important to me. I am concerned that Senator Jerry Moran (R - KS) position is shifting on opposing gun control laws. It only takes 4 RINOS (and only 3 RINOS if a Democrat wins the Presidency) to enact restrictive gun laws.

3. I contribute to the NRA and NRA/ILA.

4. I plan on paying for several family members becoming annual NRA members this year. In Congress numbers matter.

5. I will continue to be supportive of the NRA regardless of how unpopular it makes me. There is no other organization with lobbying resources the NRA has.

6. I am buying guns and ammunition. (Two Ruger Wranglers are on next buy list and maybe a AR build this year).

6. I VOTE!

 

[BSA1]

This your problem. You are locked into supporting the leader and organization over the cause. It is almost cult like. We don’t oppose the NRA and Trump we support the RKBA. If they don’t do the job, they can move on.

Well I don't consider it to be a problem for me but entitled to your opinion about me. Where have I posted that I support WLP and his management team? I consider myself to be realist. The hand we are being dealt is crappy but we have to play with the cards we have. I ask what other choices do we have?

The GOA has choose to take on the bump stock ban and it is using up a lot of their resources (so much they are pleading for money). If the ban is a single issue for you then the GOA is your organization. But what other organization is powerful enough to fight all of the other gun bills and laws?

About precedent, yes there were previous executive actions. They were bad. So loyalty to the leader excuses his? He was not supposed to be an anti and thus set the precedent for pro gun presidents to ban and confiscate previously legal items.

So Trump is flawed as human. Heck that was as plain as rat's turds in a sugar bowl before the election. This is exactly why more Pro-2A supporters need to get politically involved and remind the President who his base is.

HWB (Bush 41) was a life member of the NRA and claimed to be Pro-2A also.

Last, if you don’t like opinions here, the free market suggests you shop elsewhere.

THR is very educational for me. Fact checking has caused me to change on opinion on some subjects and helped me understand others better. It particularly is helping me to understand that merely owning a gun does not makes them supportive of eliminating gun laws.

 

[AlexanderA]

Don't underestimate the gravity of the situation. LaPierre must be fired, and replaced with an able, telegenic, and untainted candidate. If not, the whole organization will go down in flames. Those blindly defending WLP, at this point, are actually working for the worst possible outcome. As far as the NRA goes, the old adage applies -- "things must change so that things can remain the same."

 

[old lady new shooter]

True, and the McDonald decision was mostly due to the SAF. It's one of the reasons my only life membership is with them rather than the NRA, from which I resigned when the Loesch ads started running. Not that the NRA cares, of course, and they still send me plenty of mail.

I have to say, the "clenched fist of truth" gave me the creeps. In general she seems like she's always angry. I think a much better female spokesperson is the woman who was raped as a college student and as a result became a self-defense advocate. I don't remember her name, but there was a very moving conversation at the NRA convention one or two years ago between her and a woman who was assaulted in a parking lot but was able to defeat the BG because she was carrying, who said the first woman inspired her to learn to shoot.

 

[GEM]

Need we say again that a realistic evaluation of NRA personnel is not an attack on the organization but the players.

 

[Tommygunn]

NY AG is investigating that as a thinly veiled political attack. I'm not sure how they can investigate it.

Dems in the House want the NRA investigated but I'm not sure how they can compel the IRS without investigating other groups.

I'm not saying this isn't political, but the N. R. A. was chartered in New York. In 1871 the state was not the liberal place it us today, but today things are very different.
THAT'S how NY can investigate it.

 

[WestTexShooter]

Any reaction that the ACLU has sided with the NRA in its fight against n.y. / cuomo / and a.g. In n.y.?

 

[boom boom]

Any reaction that the ACLU has sided with the NRA in its fight against n.y. / cuomo / and a.g. In n.y.?

Lots of nonprofits don't want precedent of disclosing donor lists which is one of the things ny is wanting.

 

[stonecutter2]

I did not renew my membership this year. The NRA needs to get its house in order, and fast. They can start by cleaning house, but they just passed on that opportunity. So that doesn't seem to be a good sign.

For the past several years, it's become obvious something is wrong with the NRA. I got really tired of constantly having them tell me my membership was expiring soon, when I had recently renewed. This made me extremely suspicious of an attempt to prey on anyone who might be elderly, with memory problems. So, I started to question what it is they're doing with money, and what angles they're playing to get more money.

I have turned my attention and support to my state rifle association. The NRA better get itself figured out.

 

[RedlegRick]

This is distressing to me that, if the reports are true, the leadership of the organization dedicated to preserving one of our most important civil rights have chosen instead to enrich themselves.

I stopped renewing my membership because of the incessant begging calls I got, and them sending me cheap Chinese made crap when I specifically asked them not to. Last time I spoke with a telephone rep, I told him I'd rather that money spent on actual programs and legislative action rather than trashy tsotchkes made by slave labor. Ditto for the magazines, which to me were nothing more than extended ads and little else of value.

I'm supportive of a top-down housecleaning and rebuilding of the organization dedicated to its core values, not yet another old-boys club it seems to have become. Then I'd be happy to rejoin, but not now because it's become a disgrace.

 

[Punkinhead]

For the past several years, it's become obvious something is wrong with the NRA. I got really tired of constantly having them tell me my membership was expiring soon, when I had recently renewed. This made me extremely suspicious of an attempt to prey on anyone who might be elderly, with memory problems.

Funny story... I let my membership lapse when they went through their "jackbooted thugs" phase in the 90's. When a re-joined and sent in for 2 years of membership I got several "your membership is expiring soon" notices before my membership card had arrived in the mail.

 

[stonecutter2]

Funny story... I let my membership lapse when they went through their "jackbooted thugs" phase in the 90's. When a re-joined and sent in for 2 years of membership I got several "your membership is expiring soon" notices before my membership card had arrived in the mail.

Yeah, see. What the heck. I get that they're asking for more money, but then just ask for it. Don't play these shady mind games. it just stank of desperation and shenanigans when they kept doing it with me. So, no more money from me until they clean house, and that must include LaPierre going. Get some fresh minds in there that remember what the mission is. The constant alarmist tone of everything got tiresome, too. As if the entire world was burning down because Democrats are thinking about something.

 

[Old Dog]

I try not to participate in any thread that even mentions in passing the NRA, because typically on THR, these threads typically turn contentious.

As expected, this one has. The fact remains that there are precious few national organizations effectively supporting the RKBA. It's my belief that, in spite of its warts, the NRA is still effective (mostly).

While I'm much more a fan of GOA and SAF (especially since they're local to me, approachable and far more responsive to their members -- also I know for a fact that Gottlieb, Workman et al don't spend $274 K a year on their suits), I'm troubled that so many are willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I also know that the vast majority of NRA members don't even bother to send in their ballots or go to the annual convention, where maybe if enough members bothered, the leadership could be held accountable.

The listed expenditures from the leaked documents (which are available online) are abnormal on their face. $274,000 for the CEO's suits is not a normal business expenditure, especially when he can afford to buy his own from his million-dollar-plus salary. Spending tens of thousands for chartered jets is not normal when he could fly first class commercial for a fraction of the cost. Underwriting $4,500 a month for a 23-year-old intern's apartment rent is not normal. Spending millions on a law firm whose chief partner is related to the head of your exclusive PR firm is not normal.

While I rarely agree with this poster, these types of expenditures should alarm anyone who's ever been an NRA member or still is … Were North's actions self-serving? A coup attempt? Who really knows at this point. Lapierre should indeed buy his own damn suits, given his income, and the members would probably feel better about him if he dressed exclusively in Carhartt shirts and pants, no tie and a good pair of Red Wing boots. Paying your intern's rent might beg some questions of propriety as well. Chartered jets? He's not a freakin' head of state, so fly commercial for gosh sakes.

I guess I have really nothing of substance to add to this discussion, other than I'm dismayed at the constant NRA-bashing, especially when so much of comes with no suggestions as to what we can all do to help the organization turn itself around before it implodes.

 

[CoalTrain49]

5. I will continue to be supportive of the NRA regardless of how unpopular it makes me. There is no other organization with lobbying resources the NRA has.

That right there is the problem with the NRA/ILA. It's a PAC plain and simple and that's how most people view it and that's going to be it's demise. It isn't registered as a PAC. It's an organization living on the merits of what the NRA used to be before it became a PAC in control of millions of dollars to buy votes in congress and elect presidents. That isn't for me and apparently it's causing a lot of problems for the organization as a whole. Membership is down and they're bleeding money at the rate of 100K a day. That's 36 million a year.

Why does anyone contribute to the ILA? That money goes for executive salaries of millions of dollars a year. Apparently it lets WLP use a private jet, vacation in the Bahamas, and have a 200K clothing allowance. That looks like big overhead to me just to get some political action. To others it looks like fraud. Remember Paul Manafort? He's in prison.

Instead of giving that money to The ILA (WLP) why don't you give it to the political candidates of your choice? I believe you can contribute $2700 as an individual to anyone's campaign. That includes Trump and your congressional candidates.

I hate PAC's. If people would take the time to talk to their representatives and fund their campaigns we wouldn't need lobbyists. People just pour money into PAC's and expect results. Eventually you end up with organizations like the NRA begging for money and a bunch of fat cats living the opulent lifestyles of millionaires that you enabled. We won't end corporate contributions but Obama won his first term on nothing but individual contributions.

When WLP is asked to step down and they kill his cash cow he's going to sue the NRA. How many millions is that going to cost the NRA?

 

[AlexanderA]

I'm troubled that so many are willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I also know that the vast majority of NRA members don't even bother to send in their ballots or go to the annual convention, where maybe if enough members bothered, the leadership could be held accountable.

If the organization is to survive, there needs to be an immediate house cleaning. But as important as the replacement of those at the top is, more important is a change in the bylaws so that future leadership becomes extremely responsive to the membership. The self-perpetuating apparatus has to go. Directors have to be easily nominated by petition from the general membership, and they have to be able to hire and fire the executive vice president. Salaries have to be capped at some reasonable amount, and personal perks (such as custom-made clothing) have to be abolished -- or at least included under the salary cap. Things that are now provided by outside vendors (such as PR work and legal services) have to brought in-house where they can be monitored. In other words there needs to be a coherent reform program.

 

[ATLDave]

If the organization is to survive, there needs to be an immediate house cleaning. But as important as the replacement of those at the top is, more important is a change in the bylaws so that future leadership becomes extremely responsive to the membership. The self-perpetuating apparatus has to go. Directors have to be easily nominated by petition from the general membership, and they have to be able to hire and fire the executive vice president.

Although, in this day and age of "shareholder activism" and the normalization of using demographic/population shifts to change outcomes (rather than changing minds through persuasion), the risk of having a bunch of anti-gun people decide to "buy" control of the organization is pretty serious. Bloomberg could probably foot 2 years of membership for enough individual anti-gunners to simply drown out the people who are members for "legitimate" reasons. Sometimes, there's just no substitute for some good leadership and integrity.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I got really tired of constantly having them tell me my membership was expiring soon

That bothers me too, I took a five-year membership in 2015 but every year they tell me it's expiring.

Actually, lately I hardly get anything from them, not even the NRA-ILA emails, seems like something's wrong.

 

[AlexanderA]

the risk of having a bunch of anti-gun people decide to "buy" control of the organization is pretty serious.

OK, have only the Life Members vote, as is the case today. But have their votes count. When I get my ballot, as a Life member, I'm presented with a slate of candidates (for the Board) that I had no input in choosing. These are all selected by the existing powers that be (read: WLP), and it's virtually impossible to break the monopoly via membership petition. This is exactly why we're in the disgraceful situation we find today.

BTW, the ease of taking over a large organization from the inside is vastly overstated. I once had a friend tell me he could drive up the price of collectible Garands by buying up a bunch of them and destroying them. He had no idea that such efforts would be a drop in the bucket. Bloomberg, likewise, would have trouble recruiting enough fake NRA members to make a difference. It would take millions of such people (and billions of his dollars) and in the end the effort would probably still not succeed.

The idea of a "hostile takeover" is exactly the justification used by WLP to restrict rank-and-file NRA members' power. It's surprising there wasn't more pushback against it, since it's so obviously self-serving.

 

[Wisco]

I think the big gun lobby is all but dead and Wayne LaPew has just been enriching himself and his cronies while he still can and while fully embracing social conservatism and driving the once-great NRA into the ground as they alienate everyone who isn’t their most solid base.

I would guess all the important coming fights will be in the courts, not in influencing legislation, and many other 2A organizations are equipped to do that and without the junk social policy aspect.

I hope I’m wrong and my life membership matters in 10 years and under new leadership.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I think the big gun lobby is all but dead and Wayne LaPew has just been enriching himself and his cronies while he still can and while fully embracing social conservatism and driving the once-great NRA into the ground as they alienate everyone who isn’t their most solid base.

I would guess all the important coming fights will be in the courts, not in influencing legislation, and many other 2A organizations are equipped to do that and without the junk social policy aspect.

I hope I’m wrong and my life membership matters in 10 years and under new leadership.

Yeah, I think it's over.

 

[boom boom]

The question as always is what are you THR members going to do about it? You want WLP gone as a member, contact each of your NRA board members, if you are not a member, contact them anyway and tell them why you are no longer or want to be a member. Posting endlessly on the THR about the 'good ole days" when the NRA was 'non-political', liked Democrats, when they did not call endlessly or send out streams of unwanted mailers, and so on, might help for venting but does virtually nothing for changing the organization.

The major reason that the NRA has increasingly favored Republicans is not so much that they like them but that overall the Democratic party has become hostile to firearms due to changes in their party base. Minorities, immigrants (about 70 million or so since the 1970's), techlords with megabucks, urban yuppies, young unmarried women with or without children, and so on that form the base of the Democratic Party do not like firearms by and large and certainly do not like "assault weapons" etc.

This is from the PEW foundation which is relatively good as far as surveys go as they don't have a financial or policy ax to grind:
Survey question
Q39: What do you think is more important – to protect the right of Americans to own guns, OR to control gun
ownership?
PARTY ID
PARTY WITH LEANERS
Protect the right Control gun to own guns ownership (VOL.) DK/Ref
Republican 70 Protect ownership of guns 26 control gun ownership 4 Don't know n=926 respondents
Democrat 30 Protect ownership of guns 67 control gun ownership 3 Don't know n=1116 respondents
Independent 46 Protect ownership of guns 50 control gun ownership 4 Don't know n=1328 respondents

Including leaners
Rep/Lean Rep 67- 29-4 1476 respondents
Dem/Lean Dem 31-66-3 1689 respondents

PARTY AND IDEOLOGY
Conservative Republican 75- 21- 4 678 respondents
Mod/Lib Republican 57-37-6 229 " "
Mod/Cons Democrat 32- 63- 4 625 " "
Liberal Democrat 25 -74- 1 452 " "

https://www.pewresearch.org/2011/01/13/views-of-gun-control-a-detailed-demographic-breakdown/

Even more stark is this in 2012,
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2012/12/31/wide-partisan-gap-exists-over-gun-control-3/

And that breakdown persists today,
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/12/27/facts-about-guns-in-united-states/

Just as those interest groups supporting stronger laws on ecology/global warming have moved to support only Democrats, those supporting individual tax breaks have moved to support primarily Republicans, and so on, and so on. The division is not because of the NRA, it is because the party bases want different things and thus Democratic candidates today do not want nor seek NRA support because it will hurt them with their voters. A Democratic Congress critter from CA went a step further to indicate that individuals opposing gun grab legislation would be nuked and under pressure backtracked to say that he was joking. In a similar vein, google the phrase, NRA is a terrorist organization and see the number of hits you get. In essence, a large proportion of the left believes that ownership of firearms is to be discouraged through numerous laws at best and totally banned from private ownership at worst.

The country itself is divided on multiple policy issues primarily because of increasing differences in what policies and type of society that individual Americans want. A lot of that is driven now by the politics of identity coupled with welfare state politics. Expecting the politics of the 1960's with the economics and demographics of 2020 is simply not going to happen.

Regarding the ILA, the NRA needs a for profit subsidiary even to lobby for legislative action under current tax laws, virtually every other public interest group that engages in any degree of lobbying has this dual setup. Don't like the ILA, then don't send them money--it is a voluntary contribution. Bitching about PACs etc. is not going to work period because it is what it is and people have a First Amendment right to pool their money which came about from bans on direct campaign contributions from corporations and labor unions. Labor unions formed the first PAC's in the 1940's so that small contributions from a great number could be aggregated to compete with large individual donors. You want to neuter the NRA politically, do not have something like a ILA. No lobbying, etc. no worries, and Bloomberg gun grabbers incorporated will promptly kick your butt in almost every state legislature and in Congress.

 

[kidneyboy]

It's fascinating that so many of you are duped by the very obvious hit pieces put out by the left wing media. I see many of you have thousands of posts here which leads me to believe you are of an older and supposedly wiser generation. Kind of sad as I would think most of you know better than to fall for the simplest leftist propaganda.

 

[GEM]

Articles on the problem were found in the Communist press outlet, called the Wall Street Journal.

We have again sunk to demanding ideological purity to support gun rights. Thus, we've reached a dead end and repeating ourselves.

I'm going to close this one.