Leaving Dr.'s office and got nailed with gun questions-Whats going on here?
- Thread starter DustyVermonter
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The American Academy of Pediatrics and most probably Family Practice Docs are given a list of questionnaires that they "have" to ask their patients. Many of them concern safety - poisons, car seats, swimming pools and....guns. Doctors aren't there to report you to the police or have any connection whatsoever with the FBI or and LEO agencies. They are their just to advocate safety. It's all about good health. I am a pediatrician and used to ask abut gun safety. I stopped. Many fathers give me the look like I was their judge telling them what to do. They didn't like it. So at the end I just gave handouts on safety on every well visit which included gun safety.
Funny thing, some fathers and I later just talk about guns.
Funny thing, some fathers and I later just talk about guns.
clem
Member
I save all of my old Gun Magazines and leave them in my doctor's waiting rooms. The response from my various doctors is amazing. 
rainbowbob
Member
Good general advice, perhaps - but the OP disclosed that he was there to renew a prescription for his depression.
I am dead-set against doctors asking probing questions for the purpose of justifying "policies" (e.g., gun control measures).
Untreated depression, however, is a dangerous condition - and asking an acutely depressed patient about his firearms could be a legitimate medical inquiry.
Depression is treatable and usually well-controlled with the proper treatment protocol. There would not be any reason to question a patient about his firearms unless he was suicidally depressed.
That doesn't seem to be the case in this instance.
SpamHandler
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If the doctor doesn't follow up with questions that ARE health and safety related, i.e. 'was the vessel seaworthy?', 'were adequate lifejackets available?' or 'were you exposed to any spilled fuel?', then you'll know if the exercise is truly in your best interests.
DustyVermonter
Member
I really wish that I had the presence of mind to have just given him the brush off but I didn't really start thinking about it until I was in the car on my way home. At that point I was trying to remember what we had didcussed before the barage of questioning but I couldn't remember. What I do know though is that my wife went to this guy and was not asked these questions but was however asked stuff regarding general safety practices such as seatbelts,Etc... Maybe he just didn't bother because he knew we were married and obviously shared the same home. The only thing I managed to keep private was the level of enthusiasm I have for shooting sports,HD,SD,hunting,etc... I told him I hunt and own a shotgun and keep it in a safe along with the shells. Didn't bother to tell him I no longer have room in my safe and my wife keeps complaining that I'm turning the house into an army barracks,lol. Although I have no sense of humor when it comes to gun safety. All appropriate measures taken to ensure safety.
orionengnr
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About four years ago, during my annual physical, I was handed the usual stack o'paper to fill out. When I got to the questionaire with the "how many guns do you own", etc, I tore it up. Filled everything else in, and handed it all back.
Not a word was said.
When I saw the doc I told him that I objected strongly to the questionaire, and would be going elsewhere for my next physical.
I did, and my new doc has no such BS. He checks my blood for lead each year because I reload and shoot weekly. No problems, no questions, no forms.
Not a word was said.
When I saw the doc I told him that I objected strongly to the questionaire, and would be going elsewhere for my next physical.
I did, and my new doc has no such BS. He checks my blood for lead each year because I reload and shoot weekly. No problems, no questions, no forms.
HappyHunting
Member
"It's all a conspiracy, man." He must watch too many pfizer commercials. He figures if you ask him about ED, he can ask you about your gun situation. Maybe they're related.. jjjjust kidding. I like guns.
ent
Member
Many national physician groups are anti-gun. They have political agendas that are pushed on their members. This type of questioning is being talked about at national meetings and pressure is placed to ask these types questions.
Take for example these quotes from the American Academy of Pediatrics website: " A number of specific measures are supported to reduce the destructive effects of guns in the lives of children and adolescents, including the regulation of the manufacture, sale, purchase, ownership, and use of firearms; a ban on handguns and semiautomatic assault weapons; and expanded regulations of handguns for civilian use."
" The AAP recommends that pediatricians incorporate questions about guns into their patient history taking and urge parents who possess guns to remove them, especially handguns, from the home. "
Take for example these quotes from the American Academy of Pediatrics website: " A number of specific measures are supported to reduce the destructive effects of guns in the lives of children and adolescents, including the regulation of the manufacture, sale, purchase, ownership, and use of firearms; a ban on handguns and semiautomatic assault weapons; and expanded regulations of handguns for civilian use."
" The AAP recommends that pediatricians incorporate questions about guns into their patient history taking and urge parents who possess guns to remove them, especially handguns, from the home. "
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ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Common Risks
Last I looked, there was a fairly long list of common risks and, when sorted according to the actual numbers of deaths per hundred thousand, guns in the home was not near the top.
I seem to recall, for example, that swimming pools actually claim more children's lives than firearms.
Yet I've never seen a question on the form, "do you have a swimming pool at your home?"
Similarly, there are no questions about kerosene heaters, partly filled gasoline cans, paint thinner soaked rags, or power tools. Also no questions about high performance cars or other transportation, to include jet skis, snowmobiles, and dirt bikes. No questions regarding the various hazardous sports in which I might participate, like snow/water skiing, rock climbing, or mountain biking.
In other words, "do you have guns in the home?" is a targeted politically driven question.
More kids drown in buckets, but they don't ask about buckets.
Using doctors to ask the question under the plausible-but-bogus guise of "assessing risks" is something of a coup.
"Well, you see, your health involves a lot of different factors, including behavioral factors like smoking, and exposure to certain risks, so we're just trying to get as complete a picture as possible."
No, you're not.
If you were, you'd ask about the damned swimming pool. You'd ask about sports. You'd ask about my driving habits and the length of my commute, and the specific routes I take to work. You'd ask about hazardous chemicals in the garage.
But you don't do that.
Instead, you ask a question that indexes my ability to protect and/or provide for my family.
If you were serious about "risks" you would ask unarmed people why the hell they would leave themselves and their families unprotected against muggers and home invaders. There's a very real risk to being unarmed.
It's not about risk.
It's about discouraging people from owning firearms by demonizing them as a "health risk."
Last I looked, there was a fairly long list of common risks and, when sorted according to the actual numbers of deaths per hundred thousand, guns in the home was not near the top.
I seem to recall, for example, that swimming pools actually claim more children's lives than firearms.
Yet I've never seen a question on the form, "do you have a swimming pool at your home?"
Similarly, there are no questions about kerosene heaters, partly filled gasoline cans, paint thinner soaked rags, or power tools. Also no questions about high performance cars or other transportation, to include jet skis, snowmobiles, and dirt bikes. No questions regarding the various hazardous sports in which I might participate, like snow/water skiing, rock climbing, or mountain biking.
In other words, "do you have guns in the home?" is a targeted politically driven question.
More kids drown in buckets, but they don't ask about buckets.
Using doctors to ask the question under the plausible-but-bogus guise of "assessing risks" is something of a coup.
"Well, you see, your health involves a lot of different factors, including behavioral factors like smoking, and exposure to certain risks, so we're just trying to get as complete a picture as possible."
No, you're not.
If you were, you'd ask about the damned swimming pool. You'd ask about sports. You'd ask about my driving habits and the length of my commute, and the specific routes I take to work. You'd ask about hazardous chemicals in the garage.
But you don't do that.
Instead, you ask a question that indexes my ability to protect and/or provide for my family.
If you were serious about "risks" you would ask unarmed people why the hell they would leave themselves and their families unprotected against muggers and home invaders. There's a very real risk to being unarmed.
It's not about risk.
It's about discouraging people from owning firearms by demonizing them as a "health risk."
[paranoid]
It's about creating a "harmless" body of data documenting gun owners (confidentially, of course) until the day that guns can be plausibly reclassified as a "social health risk," thus requiring physicians to reveal which patients "pose the greatest social health risk." You know, kind of like they might do with a plague carrier.
[/paranoid]
It's about creating a "harmless" body of data documenting gun owners (confidentially, of course) until the day that guns can be plausibly reclassified as a "social health risk," thus requiring physicians to reveal which patients "pose the greatest social health risk." You know, kind of like they might do with a plague carrier.
[/paranoid]
rainbowbob
Member
Bam!
Great post Arfin.
DustyVermonter
Member
So, more or less, what you're saying is this information is geared toward gun owners as a whole, and not on any individual basis? Meaning, They are compiling this data to dough up statistics and target everybody's gun rights rather than to take my individual gun rights and anylyze my personal file and from there try to determine whether they think "I" am fit to own firearms based on my depression? Not that I would be pleased with either outcome but I especially don't like the idea of somebody trying to place "me" into a category and tell "me" that I am unable to own firearms because "I" fit some criteria, but also hate to think that I unknowingly participated in something that could help them in the advancement of gun control/demonizing gun owners in any way,shape or form, actually my goal is quite the opposite. I do know that the following are federal guidelines: You may not own/possess firearms if (a)You are under a restraining order (b)you are a felon (c)you have been imprisonned for Blah,Blah,Blah,Etc.... (d) You have been deemed mentally defective. So what's next? If you have been diagnosed with depression they are gonna try to put you/me in category (d)
Deanimator
Member
Don't PLASTIC BUCKETS kill more children.
Of course didn't they redefine "children" to include those 24-26 years of age? I guess though that that would allow them to claim that "children" can walk into a gun store and LEGALLY buy an "assault weapon"...
KarenTOC
Member
various posters said:
Great advice, but switching doctors is not always an option. With an HMO, for example, if one doctor is required to ask, no doubt they all are. Dropping the HMO may not be a viable option for some.
I've never been asked, but after reading this thread, I've decided to respond with "Sorry, it's my policy not to participate in any research studies."
Cosmoline
Member
That would justify the doctor asking questions if you has symptoms of possible lead poisoning or had a gaping bleeding hole in your foot. But simply owning a firearm, in and of itself, does nothing to cause a health condition.
The only reason they ask these questions is to provide support for virulently anti-gun "studies" funded by the virulently anti-gun medical association. As such, they should be disclosing the reasons to the patients before asking the questions. And they should be securing written permission to include the patient in the study. But a lot of doctors think they're beyond such trivial concerns.
Folks, I've deposed hundreds of doctors and heard hundreds more testify over my career. I've even Daubertized a few of them. There is nothing sacred or magical about them. They are as prone to being partisan, venal and corrupt as anyone else in power. As patients I strongly urge you to take an active role in your own treatment. That means asking questions, seeing your own medical records and getting a straight answer about proposed treatment and its cost. You are the customer! When some clown in a white smock starts asking invasive, personal questions that seem to have nothing to do with your sore throat or broken toe, it's perfectly acceptable to ask him what he thinks he's doing. It's also fine to refuse to answer.
Jamie B
Member
Never have run into this issue myself.
Always remember that in the relationship, you are the customer and he is the supplier.
In spite of the medical degree, you are the one being serviced, and the doctor has the responsibility to consider your opinions.
If you do decide to go elsewhere, I would be sure to inform this doctor that you will inform everyone who you know about his invasive questions.
Many people are humbled by doctors, and some doctors play this to their advantage.
Always remember that you are the boss, and use common sense.
Don't let yourseld be pushed around!
Jamie
Always remember that in the relationship, you are the customer and he is the supplier.
In spite of the medical degree, you are the one being serviced, and the doctor has the responsibility to consider your opinions.
If you do decide to go elsewhere, I would be sure to inform this doctor that you will inform everyone who you know about his invasive questions.
Many people are humbled by doctors, and some doctors play this to their advantage.
Always remember that you are the boss, and use common sense.
Don't let yourseld be pushed around!
Jamie
Polar Express
Member
Karen has a great point.
When I was growing up, my dad used to tell both my sister and I that the only lie we were supposed to tell, was if someone asked if we had guns in the house. He beleived there would be a day, when a school might ask kids if there were guns in their house, and every kid that raised their hand, would be kept at school until mom/dad turned in all the guns. (Now I realize this scenario is extreeme, and I don't want to hijack this thread, and that topic is for a different thread, While that situation is extreeme, so are death camps, and they actually occured) so it's not impossible that we could get there someday, if we let it get to that point.
Others have mentioned in this thread that simply stating 'none of your busienss', actually answers the question in the affirmative. Answering 'no', keeps that data private, but.. it does nothing to stop the process of inappropriate questioning. Which is what leads me to my opening statement that Karen made such a great point.
If we refuse any and ALL questionairs about hobbies, activities or anything that is not related to our health CARE (not health patterns), and make that the point, we put ourselves in the best position to actually gain some ground against agenda-driven socialists.
Just my take on the matter, and thanks again Karen for a great idea.
PE
When I was growing up, my dad used to tell both my sister and I that the only lie we were supposed to tell, was if someone asked if we had guns in the house. He beleived there would be a day, when a school might ask kids if there were guns in their house, and every kid that raised their hand, would be kept at school until mom/dad turned in all the guns. (Now I realize this scenario is extreeme, and I don't want to hijack this thread, and that topic is for a different thread, While that situation is extreeme, so are death camps, and they actually occured) so it's not impossible that we could get there someday, if we let it get to that point.
Others have mentioned in this thread that simply stating 'none of your busienss', actually answers the question in the affirmative. Answering 'no', keeps that data private, but.. it does nothing to stop the process of inappropriate questioning. Which is what leads me to my opening statement that Karen made such a great point.
If we refuse any and ALL questionairs about hobbies, activities or anything that is not related to our health CARE (not health patterns), and make that the point, we put ourselves in the best position to actually gain some ground against agenda-driven socialists.
Just my take on the matter, and thanks again Karen for a great idea.
PE
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Shadow 7D
Member
Sprocket, go read the American Academy of Pediatrics position on gun, and NO not odd, it is a pushed agenda.
Mine was worse, she just assumed, she also didn't give me the handout, said something about probably knowing more than whoever wrote it.
Mine was worse, she just assumed, she also didn't give me the handout, said something about probably knowing more than whoever wrote it.
Folks, I searched for "Pediatrician Gun question" on Google and found this thread. Made me join THR.
This morning I took my son Walker to a new pediatrician. Our old GP moved to New Hampshire. I was shocked to see the following question at the end of the usual form:
"Are there weapons in your household?"
"Are they locked up?"
I wrote "None of your business" below the question and did not answer. When we went in to see the Doctor, she didn't even ask about my son's pink eye. She just asked about the question I refused to answer, stating it was necessary for her to ascertain his overall safety. I told her that was none of her business and that I had come to her to heal his pink eye. She said that I should "Seek treatment elsewhere" and refused to examine my 5 year old son. I told her that it didn't seem like she cared much about his safety/health if she refused to treat him because I wouldn't answer a politically-driven question. We left the clinic and got an appointment with another GP.
It's amazing ... they can't refuse treatment to folks that are gay, have AIDS, are illegal aliens, etc., but the doc refused to treat my sick little boy because I wouldn't answer a politically driven question.
And they didn't ask if we put the kid in a car seat, have him wear a bike helmet, or have exposed electrical wiring in the house ... just if we have "weapons". Sure lady, there's a kitchen knife on the counter....
I'm Pissed. Strongly considering reporting this to the state's medical licensing authority. Doubt anything will happen but it's worth a try.
-David
Edgewood, NM
This morning I took my son Walker to a new pediatrician. Our old GP moved to New Hampshire. I was shocked to see the following question at the end of the usual form:
"Are there weapons in your household?"
"Are they locked up?"
I wrote "None of your business" below the question and did not answer. When we went in to see the Doctor, she didn't even ask about my son's pink eye. She just asked about the question I refused to answer, stating it was necessary for her to ascertain his overall safety. I told her that was none of her business and that I had come to her to heal his pink eye. She said that I should "Seek treatment elsewhere" and refused to examine my 5 year old son. I told her that it didn't seem like she cared much about his safety/health if she refused to treat him because I wouldn't answer a politically-driven question. We left the clinic and got an appointment with another GP.
It's amazing ... they can't refuse treatment to folks that are gay, have AIDS, are illegal aliens, etc., but the doc refused to treat my sick little boy because I wouldn't answer a politically driven question.
And they didn't ask if we put the kid in a car seat, have him wear a bike helmet, or have exposed electrical wiring in the house ... just if we have "weapons". Sure lady, there's a kitchen knife on the counter....
I'm Pissed. Strongly considering reporting this to the state's medical licensing authority. Doubt anything will happen but it's worth a try.
-David
Edgewood, NM
rainbowbob
Member
Welcome to THR David!
It is unconscionable that a doctor would refuse to treat your ill child on the basis you have described. As you and others have pointed out, if this quack was genuinely interested in your child's safety, she would not refuse to treat him based on her political agenda. And she would be more interested in asking questions about the risk factors for children that are at least statistically relevant.
I think you have the perfect opportunity to file a legitimate complaint based on her failure to treat your son for the potentially painful and contagious medical condition presented to her.
Do it! And let us know what (if any) response you receive.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
I think it would be a good idea to do so.
rainbowbob
Member
This is from an AAP website:
And this:
Also this:
I guess that makes their position crystal clear.
And this:
Also this:
I guess that makes their position crystal clear.
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