lee autodisk vs auto drum? LCT
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I've been using the pro disk for years and just switched to the drum for some applications. The infinite adjustability of the drum is nice (the adjustable charge bar for the disk is teh scuk - leaks like crazy, inconsistent drops). But if you're changing calibers/loads a lot, just having a note of which disk hole to use makes set up a breeze and avoids having to fiddle with adjustment. But a bunch of spare inserts for the drum, each left adjusted to the desired volume/weight, might fill the same purpose.
I've only fooled with the drum for pistol powder so far, and don't know whether the larger insert would be sufficient to charge, say, a .308 or .45-70 rifle cartridge (which is going to take the double-stack upgrade to the disk). That caveat aside, I think the drum is probably better, unless you're going to be switching loads and calibers a lot - although spare inserts for it may be cheap enough to work around that issue, too.
Of course, I'm only about 1,000 rounds into the drum. Can't say anything about longevity, which has good with the disk. Both are at least decent products.
I've only fooled with the drum for pistol powder so far, and don't know whether the larger insert would be sufficient to charge, say, a .308 or .45-70 rifle cartridge (which is going to take the double-stack upgrade to the disk). That caveat aside, I think the drum is probably better, unless you're going to be switching loads and calibers a lot - although spare inserts for it may be cheap enough to work around that issue, too.
Of course, I'm only about 1,000 rounds into the drum. Can't say anything about longevity, which has good with the disk. Both are at least decent products.
judgedelta
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Haven't used the disc. The drum is very adjustable and very consistent...
Reefinmike
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I have both and I still use the autodisk while the drum collects dust. I bought the drum expecting it to be able to throw consistent charges of ball powder in the 40gr range. It varies up to 1 grain between charges which is unacceptable and I still have to trickle up to my charge for 500 magnum. Smaller charge weights it does just fine as does the lee autodisk, the only advantage being the finer adjustment. The drum does just as bad a job as the autodisk when measuring flake powders like unique and 700x- +/-.3gr. I've had my loads figured out with the autodisk for years so that is what I will stick with.
You cant go wrong with either measure. The drum does everything the autodisk does and a little more.
You cant go wrong with either measure. The drum does everything the autodisk does and a little more.
Both. I use the autodisk way more if I can find a disk that meets the charge I want. Just seems more reliable. Imhave had the arm on the drum move and thus not throw a charge which i noticed. I have to say that for unique it is the drum only, the disk just doesnt give me what i want. I do tap the drum lightly each throw with the end of a plastic screwdriver twice though to help.
Schwing
Member
I have 3 auto disks and plan on selling them in favor of the auto drum. There is no comparison IMO. The auto drum is far more consistent and easy to use. The only drawback I have found is that the powder hopper is a bit small. Not much of a con though.
jimbo4
Member
I have both if I could just have one it would be the auto drum.
I have used and have both. I happen to like both. The infinite adjustment of the drum gives it the nod over the disk. You can buy drums fairly cheap so you can have a number set to you favorite caliber/powder weight. Now that the drum is available I'm not sure why one would get the disk.
Jeff
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Jeff
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16in50calNavalRifle
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Well this seems like a recent thread that's nearly on-topic, so I'll post my comment/question here.
I have used the Auto Drum for handgun loads and love it - the throw-to-throw consistency was amazing. The Auto Disk probably will now stay in its box as the back-up system.
However - I've just started reloading 30-06, and the story has changed. Today, when I went to charge my 32 semi-final test loads (16 at each charge level), the Drum failed to throw a consistent charge, back-to-back, for something like 70 throws. The variation from throw to throw ranged from .2g to .7g - even for my purposes (range fodder for my M1), unacceptable.
I'm using a Lee Classic Turret in single-stage mode (index rod removed), Lee long rifle charging die, loading IMR 4064 powder. Brass is once-fired HXP and is pretty uniform - trimmed to length.
I removed the Auto Drum and charging die from the turret, and re-installed them, by the book. I removed and checked the drum - no apparent problem. Tried charging a few more cases - same inconsistent charging performance.
I've scoured this site and the web (incl. Lee) for any troubleshooting info or anecdotes on this problem of inconsistent charge weights. Nada. Anyone else have my experience, and any fixes, or at least things to check?
I have used the Auto Drum for handgun loads and love it - the throw-to-throw consistency was amazing. The Auto Disk probably will now stay in its box as the back-up system.
However - I've just started reloading 30-06, and the story has changed. Today, when I went to charge my 32 semi-final test loads (16 at each charge level), the Drum failed to throw a consistent charge, back-to-back, for something like 70 throws. The variation from throw to throw ranged from .2g to .7g - even for my purposes (range fodder for my M1), unacceptable.
I'm using a Lee Classic Turret in single-stage mode (index rod removed), Lee long rifle charging die, loading IMR 4064 powder. Brass is once-fired HXP and is pretty uniform - trimmed to length.
I removed the Auto Drum and charging die from the turret, and re-installed them, by the book. I removed and checked the drum - no apparent problem. Tried charging a few more cases - same inconsistent charging performance.
I've scoured this site and the web (incl. Lee) for any troubleshooting info or anecdotes on this problem of inconsistent charge weights. Nada. Anyone else have my experience, and any fixes, or at least things to check?
I have 7 of the Auto Drums and use them for .380, 38/357, 44mag, .223, .243, 30-30, and 30-06.
I have removed the safety feature from all of them. I get very consistent throws at each caliber. With the safety feature on, it was anything but safe. I got light throws then slightly heavy throws due to inconsistent rotation of the drum.
I have one Auto Disk which I use on my 9mm die set and run round after round of 6.2g of HS-6. The 9mm die set is the only one that I use the indexing rod, everything else I single stage.
I weigh every 10nth charge on my LEE Safety Scale. To date, I have never had a charge go more than .3 over and only a few come up .5 under.
I keep my loads .5 over min and .5 under max so I don't get too worried if one gets by me but a visual inspection of each round usually reveals those before they get a bullet pressed in.
I have removed the safety feature from all of them. I get very consistent throws at each caliber. With the safety feature on, it was anything but safe. I got light throws then slightly heavy throws due to inconsistent rotation of the drum.
I have one Auto Disk which I use on my 9mm die set and run round after round of 6.2g of HS-6. The 9mm die set is the only one that I use the indexing rod, everything else I single stage.
I weigh every 10nth charge on my LEE Safety Scale. To date, I have never had a charge go more than .3 over and only a few come up .5 under.
I keep my loads .5 over min and .5 under max so I don't get too worried if one gets by me but a visual inspection of each round usually reveals those before they get a bullet pressed in.
This would be my comment as well, but since I can have both, and I think both have their uses, I will keep both.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I have all the add-ons and a spare hopper set up for Double-Disk work with a Pro Auto-Dusk and a Lyman #55 so I won't be making any purchases soon to change over to the Drum system. I'm guessing from all the reports if you are starting out fresh the Drum might be a good choice.
16in50calNR, is the rotary traveling far enough to drop powder instead of a trickling? And, once the ram is up, are you pausing long enough for full powder drop?
To be quite honest, I haven't tried stick powder yet in mine. Guess I will find out when I load up some 8mm using IMR4350.
To be quite honest, I haven't tried stick powder yet in mine. Guess I will find out when I load up some 8mm using IMR4350.
16in50calNavalRifle
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kcofohio, yes I'm pretty sure the drum is doing full rotation to "dump" position. I'll check again but the installation merely requires that the die be positioned so that the case rotates the drum fully when the ram is raised, I think mine is set so that this happens even before the ram is fully raised. This is the way I had it for handgun loading and it worked fine.
I am pausing adequately once the ram is raised/drum fully rotated to dispensing position, more than enough time (to make sure).
Did 20 test throws this morning. 85% were within .3 grains of the target, 60% within .2 grains, and 40% within .1 grains. I could "live" with this sort of variance in this application, but don't want to. Especially since I (and others) have seen how the AutoDrum can provide very consistent throws. I didn't do any actual testing when I was loading the handgun calibers, but guesstimate that based on my normal QA sampling (every 10 rounds) that 90% of the throws were within .1 grain of the target amount - based on my recollection of how nearly uniform the throws were when I checked.
I am pausing adequately once the ram is raised/drum fully rotated to dispensing position, more than enough time (to make sure).
Did 20 test throws this morning. 85% were within .3 grains of the target, 60% within .2 grains, and 40% within .1 grains. I could "live" with this sort of variance in this application, but don't want to. Especially since I (and others) have seen how the AutoDrum can provide very consistent throws. I didn't do any actual testing when I was loading the handgun calibers, but guesstimate that based on my normal QA sampling (every 10 rounds) that 90% of the throws were within .1 grain of the target amount - based on my recollection of how nearly uniform the throws were when I checked.
16in50calNR, maybe it is the stick powder? I plan on loading some 8mm Mauser using 53-53.5 gr. of IMR 4350 (170 gr. bullet) in the next couple of days.
I too, have gotten consistent charges with ball and flake powders. Guess I will be watching it closely.
I too, have gotten consistent charges with ball and flake powders. Guess I will be watching it closely.
16in50calNavalRifle
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I sent an inquiry to Lee about it, with details of my little test. Certainly hope it's not the stick powder as a cause - that would make the measure far less useful for rifle calibers. But I doubt that's the case. Will share Lee's response when it comes.
splattergun
Member
I use the auto-drum on my LCT for all my pistol powders. It is very consistent. I have not tried the LAD for rifle powders. For all of my rifle cartridges .243, 30-06, 6.5x55 swede, I use a SS press and I use a Lee Perfect Powder Measure to throw the charge a hair on the light side and trickle up (my bit of OCD).
snuffy
Member
I have one tip for everybody concerning the Lee auto drum. It needs lubrication! Dry lubrication! By that I mean white or black ultra fine graphite.
Here's what I found out. Last week I was loading some 50 beowulf. Using WW-296. Now that powder is famous for being hard to meter in a powder measure, because it leaks so bad. That was not the case for this loading session, the problem was light charges because the drum was hanging up, failing to completely rotate to the fill position. I took it apart,(after dumping the powder), ran about a teaspoon of fine black graphite through it after re-assembling it. Then put the powder back in, resumed loading. It worked 100% after that, charges were all +- .1 or right on, and no leaking.
In the future, I'm going to lubricate my 2 measures before each session. It seems to me that there's less graphite coating on smokeless powder now days. Some has none. I think Lee depends on some to be present on the powder used in their measures.
I do own 3 auto discs, I haven't used one since I got the first auto drum. Leaking, lack of finer selection of powder charge increments. Big jumps in charges don't allow finer steps in charge weights in load development.
Here's what I found out. Last week I was loading some 50 beowulf. Using WW-296. Now that powder is famous for being hard to meter in a powder measure, because it leaks so bad. That was not the case for this loading session, the problem was light charges because the drum was hanging up, failing to completely rotate to the fill position. I took it apart,(after dumping the powder), ran about a teaspoon of fine black graphite through it after re-assembling it. Then put the powder back in, resumed loading. It worked 100% after that, charges were all +- .1 or right on, and no leaking.
In the future, I'm going to lubricate my 2 measures before each session. It seems to me that there's less graphite coating on smokeless powder now days. Some has none. I think Lee depends on some to be present on the powder used in their measures.
I do own 3 auto discs, I haven't used one since I got the first auto drum. Leaking, lack of finer selection of powder charge increments. Big jumps in charges don't allow finer steps in charge weights in load development.
Load Master
Member
I have one of the first Lee Auto Drums they came out. I recently added a second. I have used mine for 380acp, 9mm Luger, 45acp, .223 Rem, and 30/06 Springfield.
Powders included CFE223, Win 748, PowerPistol, Silhouette, Accurate #5, IMR4198, H-335, Unique and Benchmark.
A few tips for using the Lee Auto Drum:
You can find some added info here on my webpage. LINK
Powders included CFE223, Win 748, PowerPistol, Silhouette, Accurate #5, IMR4198, H-335, Unique and Benchmark.
A few tips for using the Lee Auto Drum:
- It is most important to NOT over tighten the drum retaining screw. Do not fully compress the o-ring under the screw. Screw the retaining screw just to the point where the o-ring make contact and then about 1/8 of a turn more and stop. This allows the drum to turn freely without a lot of drag.
- Make sure to clean the oil on the case contact plunger. It seems this is left from the factory from manufacturing.
- Label the hopper On - Off so you know for sure which way is which.
- If you are using the Lee Auto Drum on a Load Master you can removed the disconnector. The manual at the back shows how to remove it. Make sure the screw is moved to the back hole. Doing this means the chain reset is no longer needed.
You can find some added info here on my webpage. LINK
I have used my Auto Drums for all types of powders and they are consistent. I have one, the one for my 30-06 dies, that gave me issues in the beginning but some cleaning and adjusting got it working as it should.
I'm thinking the OP just got a bad one or it needs a good adjustment.
I'm thinking the OP just got a bad one or it needs a good adjustment.
My AutoDrums seemed to need "seasoning" when new as others have mentioned. Whether you do powdered graphite or just run a couple 100 throws with any new drum, it "should" smooth out the consistency in drops. I have not used stick powder, though. Only w231, aa2, red dot, unique, & w296. It handles all of these with no leakage if I clean the drum and its seating surface in the pm before screwing it down. (Use an old paint brush to dust out stray particles--don't rub the graphite coating from the powder off the surfaces and you're good to go)
I, too will be very interested in what Lee says. You might do better with a phone call for tech support, though.
I, too will be very interested in what Lee says. You might do better with a phone call for tech support, though.
16in50calNavalRifle
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Lee sent a thoughtful reply this morning, here's the key part:
"Try reinstalling the index rod in your press and then take your powder drop test weighs from the normal 4 stop cycle of the turret. The start stop action of the powder measure traveling with the rotating turret will agitate the powder in the powder hopper and metering chamber which will tend to settle and uniform the powder charges dispensed. If you incorporate all dies in the reloading cycle the additional vibration will help to enhance what should already be more uniform powder dispensing."
I reinstalled the index rod and did 20 powder throws. The results were just marginally better (50% of throws within .1 grain of target, vs. 40% the first time, and 65% within .2g vs. 60% the first time).
I think there two parts to the Lee recommendation. Rotating the turret, and using the other dies in series just before charging. The vibration from just advancing the turret all the way around between throws - which is all I did - is significantly less than that from actually doing the two actions prior to charging (resizing and decapping, priming).
I will do another test run where I prime and charge. Resizing - a fairly violent action with 30-06 on my turret press - is out of the question, as I tumble after resizing to remove lube. So I'll prime and charge, see if the pattern is any better, and report the results.
For those following, have you used the Auto Drum, with a stick powder like 4064 - either single-stage or indexing the turret and doing other reloading actions - and achieved highly consistent throws? I know the consistency can be very good with flake powders, from my handgun loading. It's stick powders that are at issue here.
"Try reinstalling the index rod in your press and then take your powder drop test weighs from the normal 4 stop cycle of the turret. The start stop action of the powder measure traveling with the rotating turret will agitate the powder in the powder hopper and metering chamber which will tend to settle and uniform the powder charges dispensed. If you incorporate all dies in the reloading cycle the additional vibration will help to enhance what should already be more uniform powder dispensing."
I reinstalled the index rod and did 20 powder throws. The results were just marginally better (50% of throws within .1 grain of target, vs. 40% the first time, and 65% within .2g vs. 60% the first time).
I think there two parts to the Lee recommendation. Rotating the turret, and using the other dies in series just before charging. The vibration from just advancing the turret all the way around between throws - which is all I did - is significantly less than that from actually doing the two actions prior to charging (resizing and decapping, priming).
I will do another test run where I prime and charge. Resizing - a fairly violent action with 30-06 on my turret press - is out of the question, as I tumble after resizing to remove lube. So I'll prime and charge, see if the pattern is any better, and report the results.
For those following, have you used the Auto Drum, with a stick powder like 4064 - either single-stage or indexing the turret and doing other reloading actions - and achieved highly consistent throws? I know the consistency can be very good with flake powders, from my handgun loading. It's stick powders that are at issue here.
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