lee autodisk vs auto drum? LCT

[ericuda]

Maybe that is why I seem to get more consistent drops with he disks. I only use 2 stations for 9 and 45 and just manually index back and forth between the 2. Was loading 124 extreme today with the 0.4 disk with cfe pistol and consistently got drops of 5.2 with a few 5.1 drops.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Lee sent a thoughtful reply this morning, here's the key part:

"Try reinstalling the index rod in your press and then take your powder drop test weighs from the normal 4 stop cycle of the turret. The start stop action of the powder measure traveling with the rotating turret will agitate the powder in the powder hopper and metering chamber which will tend to settle and uniform the powder charges dispensed. If you incorporate all dies in the reloading cycle the additional vibration will help to enhance what should already be more uniform powder dispensing."

I reinstalled the index rod and did 20 powder throws. The results were just marginally better (50% of throws within .1 grain of target, vs. 40% the first time, and 65% within .2g vs. 60% the first time).

I think there two parts to the Lee recommendation. Rotating the turret, and using the other dies in series just before charging. The vibration from just advancing the turret all the way around between throws - which is all I did - is significantly less than that from actually doing the two actions prior to charging (resizing and decapping, priming).

I will do another test run where I prime and charge. Resizing - a fairly violent action with 30-06 on my turret press - is out of the question, as I tumble after resizing to remove lube. So I'll prime and charge, see if the pattern is any better, and report the results.

For those following, have you used the Auto Drum, with a stick powder like 4064 - either single-stage or indexing the turret and doing other reloading actions - and achieved highly consistent throws? I know the consistency can be very good with flake powders, from my handgun loading. It's stick powders that are at issue here.

If you have to have extra vibration to get consistent throws using stick powder then that limits the auto drums capabilities on a progressive!

Maybe wire up a tiny vibrator motor like on a cell phone and attack it to the auto disk?





Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

 

[ericuda]

I have a handfull of old cell phones. Not sure I would do it but anyone have any photos of using an old cellphone motor would be interesting to see.

 

[16in50calNavalRifle]

Per the Lee rep's reasonable suggestion to operate the press in turret mode, using the index rod, to help AutoDrum operation by adding vibration to settle powder, I ran two more tests of 20 powder throws each. In the first run I operated the turret (turned it from station to station with the index rod inserted), but charging was the only operation performed. I then inserted pre-primed brass, and dispensed a charge. In the second run I turned the turret, but also primed the case just before dispensing the charge (more vibration in the press from the priming operation).

In the first series the results were 50% of throws within .1g of the target, 65% within .2g, and 90% within .3g. In the second run (priming plus charging), these numbers were 40% within .1g, 75% within .2g, and 80% within .3g. As before, the powder was IMR 4064.

So it would appear that vibration from turning the turret and priming are not sufficient to improve consistency in the drops. Adding the resizing step to the chain isn't practical - I de-lube, clean, and trim after resizing, so I can't just do a straight resizing/priming/charging/seating process.

Sent my new results back to Lee for their comment.

Will repeat a question: anyone here using the AutoDrum have consistent performance when dispensing stick powders like IMR 4064? I assume there are, but want to confirm specifically before I puzzle any more over my own inability to make things work well.

 

[SARuger]

I only index on two of the 9 calibers I reload, 9mm and 38spcl. With that said, I "bump-bump" the handle while the the case is in the powder die, on every thing I load. I think it helps knock loose any hangers in there and settles the powder in the hopper for the next meter.

That might be why I get such good consistency.

 

[16in50calNavalRifle]

Sorry if I missed this in one of your comments above, SARuger, but have you achieved good consistency with the AutoDrum using stick powder like 4064? That's what my efforts have narrowed it all down to. Mine works very well with ball/flake powders for handgun. It's the stick powders that are the question.

 

[SARuger]

Sorry if I missed this in one of your comments above, SARuger, but have you achieved good consistency with the AutoDrum using stick powder like 4064? That's what my efforts have narrowed it all down to. Mine works very well with ball/flake powders for handgun. It's the stick powders that are the question.

I use IMR 4064 in my .243 loads and it meters nicely. It seems that the first drop or two will snap a stick but after that it seems to settle down.

On the other end, Unique, is in my opinion the hardest stuff to meter and I get very good results there too. I tried the Auto Disk for Unique and had no luck. I tried the LEE adjustable charge bar and it was worse! The only thing I'm using the Auto Disk on is my 9mm load, 6.2g of HS-6(I tuned the .43cc orifice on the disk with a round file to hit 6.2g)

 

[Dudedog]

I have the Lee disk measure, and the Pro disk (worth the extra over the standard one) and the Autodrum. If I could only have one it would be the drum.
I still use the disk because I have modified some disk holes (slightly larger) to throw a charge I want and it is quick to change the disks. Of course you are limited to what the disks throw. The adjustable charge bar for the disk measure did not work out well for me.
One note. If you are not careful to make sure the case is lined up correctly the drum can mess up thin walled brass like .380. I don't seem to have that issue with the disk measure. Don't have the issue with anythin other than .380 when using the drum.

 

[16in50calNavalRifle]

A second thoughtful reply from Lee support, after I reported that dispensing powder (4064) after turning the turret and priming the case (creating vibration that should help fill the metering chamber more uniformly), did not offer any specific suggestions to achieve better uniformity than I have been able to get so far.


I will try a few other things - I'll examine the rifle drum for any issues, I'll graphite the whole system, and try tapping on the measure before each drop - to see if I can tighten up the distribution of throws. But I'm guessing in the end I will live with 70% of the throws being +/- .2g of the desired weight. As this is for the M1, and I don't shoot anything but action competitions (i.e. fine precision is not needed), no big deal.

But a little disappointing along side the AutoDrum's near-perfection when doing handgun ammo (doing a run of 9mm to take a break from the 30-06 process and sure enough, I check every 10th round and the powder throws are identical). In the future I can check into M1-suitable powders with ball/flake shape if I want to get uniform throws.

 

[thomas15]

Buy one of each and experiment a little. They are not that expensive.

 

[splattergun]

If you have to have extra vibration to get consistent throws using stick powder then that limits the auto drums capabilities on a progressive!

Maybe wire up a tiny vibrator motor like on a cell phone and attack it to the auto disk

You don't have to use extra vibration to get consistent throws with the LAD. The amount of movement/vibration will be different on each type of machine. If you are going to use the LAD on a turret, set the charge by weighing your test charges after rotating the turret through the same steps you would rotate through if loading live rounds, to replicate the movements/vibrations of that machine. If you're using the LAD on a progressive, set the charge to replicate the movements/vibrations of that machine. Same thing with a SS press.

Since there is generally a lot more movement/vibration in a turret press when it runs through it's rotation than you would likely find using a progressive, so the powder would likely compact slightly more, so I would think the charge volume would be slightly smaller on a turret, slightly less compression, thus slightly larger volume on a progressive, and slightly larger still on a SS, a result of the different levels of vibration in each type of tool.

If I am correct in this, it would naturally be necessary to verify throws and make adjustments if trying to throw the same weight on different presses. I think I will try to verify my hypothesis using my LCT and my SS presses. I do not own a progressive.

 

[davers]

Hey Gang...I purchased my Lee autodrum a few months ago, and I have yet to get the darn thing consistent. I reload only pistol, and I mounted it on my Redding T7 turret press. I've tried both with and without the extension. If fits just fine on my press, so that's good, but I must be doing something wrong as I'm not getting near the accuracy that say... FortuneCookie45LC seems to be getting. I've tried Winchester 231, 800X and finally Bullseye. The best results seem to be with Bullseye. 231 gave me typically results like this:

4.6
4.3
4.3
4.2
5.1
4.6
4.4
4.6
4.4
4.7

800X typically gave me this:

3.9
3.8
3.1
3.9
4.1
4.1
3.8
3.8
3.3
3.4

Bullseye gave me this:

4.6
4.6
5.3
4.8
4.4
4.5
4.8
4.5
4.6
4.6

I've cleaned everything a few times. I've run hopper after hopper of each powder through without and gains in accuracy from when I throw the first charge to when I throw the 100th. My arm is tired from running powder through it, and it's still inaccurate.

I think I have to be doing something wrong, although I'm not sure what. As I said, I get these same results with and without the extension. Adding it doesn't increase or decrease accuracy.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Dave

 

[SARuger]

How long are you leaving the case in powder die? I always count to two. Some of the big calibers like 30-06 take longer to fill

 

[Load Master]

Dave,

I have ran thousands of rounds through my Lee Auto Drum with excellent reputability. So far, the best powder for pistol I have ran through it is Unique.

There are a few things that will cause issues with consistency in the powder drop. The first and far most is over tightening of the drum retainer screw. This is the screw that includes an O-ring. You want to only tighten to the point that the O-ring makes contact and then only about 1/16 to 1/8 turn more. Just so that the O-ring has a slight amount of compression. This allows the drum to rotate without much drag.

Make sure the drum rotates its full travel each time. I put red marks that show the extremes of drum travel, as shown in the photos below.

Drum fill position,


Drum dump position,

 

[davers]

How long are you leaving the case in powder die? I always count to two. Some of the big calibers like 30-06 take longer to fill

Hey SARuger, I do pause, maybe for a count of 2. I did throw a few charges after rotating the turret a few positions, like I was loading for real. It did seem to make it a bit more accurate. It also added about .6 grains to each throw. I did just 6 for fun of Bullseye:

5.2
5.2
5.3
5.2
5.3
5.1

I'll play around with it again tomorrow.

Thanks!

Dave

 

[davers]

Dave,

I have ran thousands of rounds through my Lee Auto Drum with excellent reputability. So far, the best powder for pistol I have ran through it is Unique.

There are a few things that will cause issues with consistency in the powder drop. The first and far most is over tightening of the drum retainer screw. This is the screw that includes an O-ring. You want to only tighten to the point that the O-ring makes contact and then only about 1/16 to 1/8 turn more. Just so that the O-ring has a slight amount of compression. This allows the drum to rotate without much drag.

Make sure the drum rotates its full travel each time. I put red marks that show the extremes of drum travel, as shown in the photos below.

Drum fill position,


Drum dump position,

Hey Load Master..good suggestion. I'll have to mark my drum as well and pay attention to be sure It's always going through the full range..

Dave