Lee dies question

[alanwk]

I am reloading 40S&W using Lee's 4 die set.
Can (or should) I seat the bullet and crimp with the seating die and then crimp again with the Factory Crimp die? Also how would I just seat the bullet (no crimp) with seating die and then crimp with FCD? Thanks.

 

[EricBu]

No, either seat and crimp together and ditch the crimp die, or adjust seating die so it doesn't touch the case, then seat in last step with crimp die. Your choice, matter of preference. Personally, I never seat and crimp together. Haven't for 25 years now. The quality and consistency of the ammo is just much better if you seat in one step, and crimp in the other. But that's just one man's opinion...and you know how opinions are.

 

[denton]

IIRC, that cartridge headspaces on the mouth of the case. I suggest that you do not crimp in the seating die and apply very, very minimal "crimp" in the FCD. There should be no inward bending of the brass, just enough correction to iron out any remaining bell.

 

[runner3264]

Seat and crimp separately and only crimp once. Just enough to remove the flare. I suggest a test gauge or at least use the barrel for a pluck test. Mic the neck after crimping. It should be .421 to .423 based on the wall thickness of the case and the diameter of the bullet. Most bullets will be .400 and a wall thickness of .010-.011

 

[barnfrog]

No, either seat and crimp together and ditch the crimp die, or adjust seating die so it doesn't touch the case, then seat in last step with crimp die. Your choice, matter of preference. Personally, I never seat and crimp together. Haven't for 25 years now. The quality and consistency of the ammo is just much better if you seat in one step, and crimp in the other. But that's just one man's opinion...and you know how opinions are.

Related question: if using an RCBS two-die set for bottleneck cases, do you think there is an advantage to seating the bullet first and then backing out the seating plug and using the seating die to crimp as a separate step?

 

[EricBu]

Related question: if using an RCBS two-die set for bottleneck cases, do you think there is an advantage to seating the bullet first and then backing out the seating plug and using the seating die to crimp as a separate step?

The bottle neck cartridges that I crimp, I buy a 2nd seating/crimp die, and remove the the seating stem. Or depending on caliber and it's purpose, buy a Lee FCD (I don't think the FCD is "always" the right answer, but sometimes it is). Unless I'm loading on a single stage, in which case I do exactly that, just pull out the seating stem, readjust die, and crimp. I never seat and crimp in same step, regardless of caliber or type, handgun or rifle, bottle neck or straight wall. Most of the time, I don't expand or crimp bottle neck at all, especially my precision long range rounds for things like 338 LM, or even my .223 and .308 long range stuff, and I don't use bullets with cannelures in them, as 90% of the time, I am not seating them where the cannelure is. If you aren't going to expand/crimp a bottle neck...I do suggest annealing and using a neck tension gauge on that brass though, especially if it's been fired a couple of times.

 

[barnfrog]

Thank you. I generally do not use cannelured bullets, but recently loaded some .308 Interlocks for a friend. I noticed the crimp was inconsistent, so on the next batch will try separating the two steps.

 

[EricBu]

Thank you. I generally do not use cannelured bullets, but recently loaded some .308 Interlocks for a friend. I noticed the crimp was inconsistent, so on the next batch will try separating the two steps.

Measure the brass too. If we're talking rifle/bottle neck, it will stretch at different rates if it's mixed head stamp or from different batches or sessions. Starting out trimming to trim to length will help make for consistent crimps.

 

[barnfrog]

That was probably it, now that I think about it. These were new cases that I sized to true up the mouths. I measured to make sure they were within SAAMI length, but they weren't all the same.

 

[LiveLife]

how would I just seat the bullet (no crimp) with seating die and then crimp with FCD?

Let me explain what Factory Crimp Die was meant for semi-auto pistol calibers (FCD for revolver and rifle cartridges are different). When Lee released the Bulge Buster, John Lee, president of Lee Precision exchanged emails with me discussing the FCD and Bulge Buster discussed on THR (There was no BB kit for 9mm because of the tapered case with wider base and could not be pushed through FCD ... Some members found a workaround by using 9mm MaK FCD).

He confirmed the use of seat/taper crimp die for normal reloading and use of FCD (For all straight walled pistol calibers except tapered 9mm) was to address out-of-spec (not full-length resized brass, tilted bullet during seating, finished rounds with out-of-round case neck from inconsistent case wall thickness, etc.) finished round and bring it within SAAMI spec to pass case cage/barrel chambers - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-lee-bulge-buster-die-kit.502850/

"John Lee" <[email protected]>
Tuesday, February 2, 2010 10:02 AM

Your forum comments are very timely. I have attached a copy of the ad that will appear in your favorite shooting sports magazine. I have also included the instructions that will answer any questions on operation.

Thanks for sharing the pertinent forum information with us.

Sincerely

John Lee, President

From: John Lee <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Bulge Buster Die Kit
Date: Wednesday, February 3, 2010, 7:49 AM

Because the 9mm [case] is tapered the standard Factory Crimp Die will not work as a push through die.

We have modified a 9mm Factory Crimp Die and it is being beta tested by the owner of a Uzi. If the test proves out we will be able to provide a die to use with this tapered case.

My limited testing in the office was encouraging.

Sincerely

John Lee, President

Some reloaders seat with combo seat/crimp die and "taper crimp" with FCD. That's not the practice I used and I reloaded my USPSA match rounds without FCD. Over the decades, I have reloaded over 650,000 rounds of 380Auto/9mm/40S&W/45ACP without using the FCD, even with lubed lead and coated bullets (Remember Moly coated black bullets? Thank goodness for Hi-Tek coated bullets).

I am reloading 40S&W using Lee's 4 die set.

Can (or should) I seat the bullet and crimp with the seating die and then crimp again with the Factory Crimp die?

You can seat and taper crimp with the combo die.

Only when your finished rounds fail to pass the case gage or the barrel chamber, should you consider using the FCD.

Now, since you have the FCD, can you seat with combo die and taper crimp with FCD? Sure, it's a free country.

Just ask yourself this question ... What did all the reloaders and match shooters somehow managed to reload SAAMI spec rounds before the FCD?

And this is coming from a Lee fanboy.

 

[gifbohane]

I have used the Hornady seat/crimp die satisfactorily. I especially like the extension that grasps the bullet et al.as it enters the die.

Maybe 1 or 2 percent would not plunk and I usually could not find the reason, just pull and toss the case.

Lately I seat and prime on different (Redding) dies, a little more consistency.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I have used the Hornady seat/crimp die satisfactorily. I especially like the extension that grasps the bullet et al.as it enters the die.

Maybe 1 or 2 percent would not plunk and I usually could not find the reason, just pull and toss the case.

Lately I seat and prime on different (Redding) dies, a little more consistency.

Hornady makes the best seating dies, goes on real straight

 

[Mike44]

The instructions provided by Lee for the 4 die set for the seating die explain how to set it up for seating without crimping. If you don't have the instructions, they are on the leeprecision.com website.

 

[mdi]

I like most Lee products, but the FCD I tried now resides in a land fill somewhere in So. Oregon...

If one needs to ask this question,(no offense intended!) I believe he is a newer reloader. I have found it to be very beneficial to a newer reloader to separate the seating and crimping operations, regardless of caliber. More control and less "fiddling" (fine tuning). I'd suggest getting a plain Lee taper crimp die ($14.00) and separate steps (and re adjusting a seat/crimp die isn't necessary).

 

[Mark_Mark]

I like most Lee products, but the FCD I tried now resides in a land fill somewhere in So. Oregon...

If one needs to ask this question,(no offense intended!) I believe he is a newer reloader. I have found it to be very beneficial to a newer reloader to separate the seating and crimping operations, regardless of caliber. More control and less "fiddling" (fine tuning). I'd suggest getting a plain Lee taper crimp die ($14.00) and separate steps (and re adjusting a seat/crimp die isn't necessary).

lots of poor starving reloaders in South Carolina would have loved those die’s. What a shame, Sorry Anderson SC!

 

[mdi]

I wouldn't wish that FCD on my liberal neighbor. It now lives where it belongs.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I wouldn't wish that FCD on my liberal neighbor. It now lives where it belongs.

What did Lee do to you man? share if you care

 

[FROGO207]

I also have a bunch of Lee FCD in most of my Lee autoloading pistol die sets. They are unused but there in case I want to sell my dies someday as complete sets. I do use the 30-30 FCD and like it for that use. YMMV

 

[sparkyv]

This:

Personally, I never seat and crimp together.

I suggest that you do not crimp in the seating die and apply very, very minimal "crimp" in the FCD

Seat and crimp separately and only crimp once.

 

[mdi]

What did Lee do to you man? share if you care

Lee has provided me with many innovative, well working tools since 1969 (I got into reloading with a Lee Loader in 38 Special). I have never needed to resize any rounds as a last step. I load a round and plunk test (revolvers too). If the round does not plunk properly, I find out why and fix it. I don't cover up a problem with a sizing die. I have reloaded semi-auto rounds for 12 pistols of various calibers (32 ACP - 45 ACP in multi-thousands of rounds) for at least 30 years and never needed to "post crimp resize" any. Even my "tight chamber" Masada works quite well with handloads from my Lee dies and a plain old taper crimp (deflaring die). The one FCD I had used, once, sized down my carefully sized bullets, which plunked and fired fine. I punched out the carbide ring but the crimp was nutin' to write home about and my RCBS deflaring die worked excellently (I cannot remember one of my handloads hanging up in a pistol because it wouldn't chamber properly), so I tossed it...

I have often thought of 45 ACP. How many rounds were reloaded and chambered/fired succcessfully in the many decades it has been reloaded, without post crimp sizing?

I'm not intending to start the usual conversation with those that think the FCD is the best thing since Bullseye, I was asked my opinon only...

 

[Mark_Mark]

Lee has provided me with many innovative, well working tools since 1969 (I got into reloading with a Lee Loader in 38 Special). I have never needed to resize any rounds as a last step. I load a round and plunk test (revolvers too). If the round does not plunk properly, I find out why and fix it. I don't cover up a problem with a sizing die. I have reloaded semi-auto rounds for 12 pistols of various calibers (32 ACP - 45 ACP in multi-thousands of rounds) for at least 30 years and never needed to "post crimp resize" any. Even my "tight chamber" Masada works quite well with handloads from my Lee dies and a plain old taper crimp (deflaring die). The one FCD I had used, once, sized down my carefully sized bullets, which plunked and fired fine. I punched out the carbide ring but the crimp was nutin' to write home about and my RCBS deflaring die worked excellently (I cannot remember one of my handloads hanging up in a pistol because it wouldn't chamber properly), so I tossed it...

I have often thought of 45 ACP. How many rounds were reloaded and chambered/fired succcessfully in the many decades it has been reloaded, without post crimp sizing?

I'm not intending to start the usual conversation with those that think the FCD is the best thing since Bullseye, I was asked my opinon only...

I did have to post crimp a few batches. But, for me, it’s good practice to check your loads and quality control as a separate function of the process. For me, catching a problem and fixing it is a success.