Lee Factory Crimp Die Problem??

[Kentucky Jelly]

I have read nothing but good things about Lee factory crimp dies. I received 2 of these dies today. One in .40 S&W, and one in .45 acp.

I got the .40S&W set up in my press. Ran a dummy round to get it set up, and it is not applying any crimp at all!!!!! I have the dies set up right at the shell plate at it's highest point, and ran out of adjustment on the Lee die. I took the die apart, and the piece inside that applies the crimp has go to be wrong. A once fired piece of Winchester brass can fit all the way through it with no resistance at all. I Checked the .45 die and it seems to be fine.

Am I missing something here before I contact Lee?



Not the case is going in the smaller end of the crimper. And fitsall the way through very easy. This brass has not even been sized. Same as .45 just tumbled.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Sounds like you need to send it in to Lee.

Dave

 

[Steve C]

The Lee FC die will not reduce the case diameter to less than the SAAMI minimum. If you would first seat a bullet in the case you would get a taper crimp from mild to very heavy. Running a case through the die without a bullet is just getting the case slightly tapered all the way through. You should be able to see some drag marks on the case to show that its being sized down a bit.

 

[jfh]

Steve's got it right: The factory crimp die applies a (taper) crimp once the bullet is seated. Otherwise, you may not even see the sizing / taper it may be applying.

Try building some dummy rounds--get the seater set up properly, then try playing with the crimp adjustment. Depending on your brass LOAs, you may need to adjust the die body as well as the crimper (center stem) to get exactly the crimp you want. It's possible that, if you were trying to crimp with a bullet in place, you already have the die body too high.

Keep in mind that the "bump" (or "double bump" is the post-sizer at work, not the crimping.

Jim H.

 

[Kentucky Jelly]

Thanks for the replies fellas. But this thing is wrong. A once fired case that has not been re-sized has a larger case mouth diameter than one that has a bullet seated in it. I was trying to crimp newly made rounds. The carbide resizing die was making contact, but no the internal crimp bushing.

I have the die set right, and the crimp bushing makes not contact to the case at all. That is why I removed the crimp bushing from the die, and took pictures of it easily sliding over a case. The inside diameter of the bushing measures .433", at its smallest diameter. A loaded round measures about .420" at the case mouth.

I have already emailed Lee we will see what they say.

 

[K3]

FWIW, I have been crimping my pistol rounds with the Lee bullet seater (.38).

Upon visual inspection, the crimp looks exactly the same to me as what the FCD produced when I used it. I just go by feel and have had good results seating/crimping with one stroke.

 

[jfh]

Kentucky Jelly: I agree, you may well have a defective / missassembled FCD--Lee will help you out there. If you continued to screw down the center stem and got no crimping action at all--e.g., no tapering, then it sounds out of spec to me.

K3: I don't think the crimp style has changed with the 4-die setup, at least for revolvers. But, setting up a seater-crimper / #3 die is "fussy" and tricky if one is using Load Development work--i.e., tweaking LOAs and crimp settings, or experimenting with different bullets.

I built excellent-quality semiauto fodder on my Pro 1000, once the components were selected and if the cases were all of the same nominal length. It was when I bought a new order of the same bullet type and weight from a different manufacturer that I found I had to readjust, and that was problematic--relatively speaking.

But, the flexibility of the 4-die setup really is a plus for tweakers, I think. Not having to go between die body height adjustment and seating stem adjustment at the same time helps.

Jim H.

 

[isuace]

Don't the instructions say to screw the die all the way down until it touches the shell holder, then insert a loaded round and screw the adjustment knob down until it touches the bullet? Then 1/2 turn for a light crimp, and 1 turn for full crimp.
If so, how can you properly set up the die without a loaded round?

 

[Kentucky Jelly]

Kentucky Jelly

I got the .40S&W set up in my press. Ran a dummy round to get it set up, and it is not applying any crimp at all!!!!! I have the dies set up right at the shell plate at it's highest point, and ran out of adjustment on the Lee die.

Dummy round meaning a seated bullet in a empty case (no powder or primer). The die touches the shellplate. The center adjuster can be adjusted all the way in with out making contact.

I took pictures of the crimp bushing out of the dies to show the difference. I believe the .40 was just machined way out of tolerance. I email Lee waiting on a response. I will probably call them here soon. I have 1,000 bullets and 1,000 cases itching to be loaded and crimped.

 

[jfh]

isuace: correct, those are the Lee instructions--at least in the video; I don't have the printed instructions in front of me.

Note: The following procedure assumes you have properly adjusted the #1 die, the decapper / sizer previously, that the #2 / PTED die flares "approriately", and the #3 / seater is set to seat only and to the correct LOA.


For reloaders not currently working from a previously-built / factory cartridge, the technique to use is to

1. Insert a (typical) case into the shellholder and raise the press.

2. Screw the die body down until one feels contact with the rim. Then tighten the locknut to take flex out of the die threads. Now set the crimp stem.

3. Start building a dummy cartridge from the beginning. Proceed through seating a bullet, and measure and note the LOA. Do this with at least "a few" cartridges--say five. Keep track of which is which--I use a fine-point permanent marker to number them. Do NOT run these dummies into the FCD.

4. If you're working on the proverbial Lee Turret, remove the auto indexing rod and turn the turret to #4 / FCD die.

Now, do this.

With one cartridge, run it through the FCD die. As you do this, try to feel the crimp operation, and note whether or not you get the typical "double bump" for post-sizing.

Examine that completed round, and measure it.

a. Examine the crimp--on a revolver / roll crimp, look to see how wide and how bright the crimp is. If there is a horizontal band--that is, if it appears to be two crimp lines, then the die body is too low. Tweak it up one-eighth turn, say, and turn the stem knob one-quarter turn. This will keep the same amount of crimp in place.

b. If the crimp now appears to be OK, (for roll crimps, a single shiny line at the case mouth, width of which generally indicates how heavy the crimp is; or an appropriate minimal flattening of the flare for semiautos ), you're good to go.

c. If the crimp is not to your liking, continue to adjust the die body first, with the stem as needed. Be sure to tighten the locknut each time to take the slack out of the threads.

d. Test these acceptable cartridges in your chamber or max cart gauge.

e. If you are having trouble with the LOA changing while tweaking the FCD, you probably do not have the #1 or # 3 die bodies set correctly, and they should be re-done before final setups to the FCD. The LOA can also change slightly if there is a lot of post-sizing going on--which you can tell by how significant the double-bump is, too. For semiauto fodder, I wouldn't worry about this except for bullseye shooting--it means you have to minimize your bullet and case variations.

If you didn't use all your built-up dummies to do this, disassemble the remainder for reuse. Keep one or two dummies on hand for action-proving

This took longer to write to explain than it does to do this, and it really only needs to be re-done if you change bullets. However, check any new order, even if from the same supplier, to confirm they are the same as before.

Jim H.

 

[Kentucky Jelly]

I just spoke with Lee and it is definitely wrong. The tech thinks the die was shipped with a different caliber insert. They are shipping me out a new insert should be here in 2-3 days.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I didn't think I was going crazy, but then, some might debate that.

Dave