Lee Factory Crimp Die

[Mr_Flintstone]

I usually use my seating die to seat and crimp lead bullets, but I bought some 93 gr 38 special bullets without a crimp groove, and I needed to use my factory crimp die.

I followed the directions that came with the die, and adjusted to heavy crimp, but I can't tell that it has crimped appropriately.


Sorry for the quality, but you can see that there is no roll, taper, or collet crimp. This round is adjusted 1 1/2 turns in, and the instructions say that 1 turn is a heavy crimp.

What might I be doing wrong?

 

[Tony k]

Looks correct to me. What do your Calipers tell you?

How's the neck tension?

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Looks correct to me. What do your Calipers tell you?

How's the neck tension?

.370" on the case, .375-.378 on the neck.

I shot some, and there didn't appear to be any set back or movement forward, but they were very light loads.

Maybe it's my eyes. What are factory crimps supposed to look like? How can I tell if they are right. Roll crimps are easy to see the difference, but I'm struggling with the FCD.

 

[joneb]

What is the diameter of these bullets?
Does the diameter of the case where the bullet is seated change when you apply the Lee FCD?
I use a Lee collet crimp die for plated bullets, it is like the FCD but does not have the sizing ring.

 

[Tony k]

I don't think a crimp made with a fcd should be visible to the naked eye the same way a roll crimp would be. By the time you've turned it down far enough to make it readily visible, you'll start crushing case mouths.

 

[mdi]

Seat and crimp, then pull the bullet and see what's going on. Check to see if bullet is being distorted or swaged down. With that light bullet and light load you can prolly get away without a crimp. I believe the Lee FCD for 38 is a roll crimp...

 

[9mmepiphany]

Maybe it's just the lighting or maybe just the fuzzy picture, but it sure looks like it's crimped to me...maybe even excessively crimped. Looking at the right side of your pictured cartridge, it looks like you've applied more crimp than I use

My bullet of choice for .38Spl is a 170gr without lube or crimp grooves. I'm running them through a Redding Profile Crimp (roll) die and crimping enough that a squib won't push the bullet clear of the case (it's a competition thing)...it also prevents the case mouths hanging up on the cylinder during reloads.

 

[Jack B.]

Looks like it's seated a bit too deep to me. What make bullet are you using?

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

Maybe it's just the lighting or maybe just the fuzzy picture, but it sure looks like it's crimped to me...maybe even excessively crimped. Looking at the right side of your pictured cartridge, it looks like you've applied more crimp than I use

My bullet of choice for .38Spl is a 170gr without lube or crimp grooves. I'm running them through a Redding Profile Crimp (roll) die and crimping enough that a squib won't push the bullet clear of the case (it's a competition thing)...it also prevents the case mouths hanging up on the cylinder during reloads.

I looked at it again and it does look that way in the picture. It's just the fuzzy picture. The case mouth isn't rolled any.

Looks like it's seated a bit too deep to me. What make bullet are you using?

These are Meister 93 grain LRN. They are seated just deep enough to cover the lube ring. They don't have a crimp groove.

 

[Rule3]

The LFCD for revolvers "roll crimp" If the bullet does not have a crimp groove there is no place for the brass mouth to "roll into"

Seems like a odd bullet for a 38 special?? As long as there is no bullet pull when you shoot them you are fine. Check after you shoot one or two rounds.

 

[Skinnedknuckles]

Hard to see in the picture, but it does look like you have formed a roll crimp. Any flare seems gone and the edge of the mouth seems to be rolled into the bullet. My experience has been that a lead bullet is so soft that a roll crimp die will roll the mouth of the case into the body of the bullet without any trouble. You don't really need a crimp groove. The roll crimp will roll the case mouth right into a plated bullet as well - a little bit and it indents the plating, a lot and it breaks through the plating.

You can make a taper crimp insert for your .38 Special FCD by buying the 9mm FCD crimp insert and cut it to the length of the .38 insert, The taper crimp might be better for this bullet.

 

[Walkalong]

I agree.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/469800/lee-taper-crimp-die

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I agree.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/469800/lee-taper-crimp-die

That's a pretty good price. I believe I'll order one.

 

[Walkalong]

Light taper crimp on a 125 Gr plated in .357 brass. (Light plinker load)

 

[RealGun]

I usually use my seating die to seat and crimp lead bullets, but I bought some 93 gr 38 special bullets without a crimp groove, and I needed to use my factory crimp die.

I followed the directions that came with the die, and adjusted to heavy crimp, but I can't tell that it has crimped appropriately.

View attachment 764219
Sorry for the quality, but you can see that there is no roll, taper, or collet crimp. This round is adjusted 1 1/2 turns in, and the instructions say that 1 turn is a heavy crimp.

What might I be doing wrong?

If that little bullet has a leading band, you would still want to roll over it to aid in feeding. Too much could weaken the case's grip on the bullet to prevent setback.

That is a pretty odd bullet for 38 Special, the purpose of which I don't get at all.

I would avoid Remington (RP) brass, because it is thin and will have a weak grip on the bullet, which seats very shallow.

 

[Riomouse911]

To make sure I have a roll crimp in place on my revolver loads I run a fingernail down the bullet to the case. If it snags on the case mouth like a semi auto case then there is not enough roll crimp. If I can feel the tiny bit of the smooth "shoulder" ( for lack of a better term) that is present with a good crimp, and can see it by tilting in the light, then I am golden.

It takes a bit of experimenting and feel to get the crimp just right when you switch components, especially with an odd shaped or non-standard type of bullet.

Those really look like they may be .356 diameter bullets for a round like the .380 auto. These wouldn't need a crimp groove since they are to be taper-crimped in order to function in a rimless case.

You said they are 93 grain, which is consistent with standard .380 bullet weights, but just for fun have you checked the diameter?

 

[RealGun]

To make sure I have a roll crimp in place on my revolver loads I run a fingernail down the bullet to the case. If it snags on the case mouth like a semi auto case then there is not enough roll crimp. If I can feel the tiny bit of the smooth "shoulder" ( for lack of a better term) that is present with a good crimp, and can see it by tilting in the light, then I am golden.

It takes a bit of experimenting and feel to get the crimp just right when you switch components, especially with an odd shaped or non-standard type of bullet.

Those really look like they may be .356 diameter bullets for a round like the .380 auto. These wouldn't need a crimp groove since they are to be taper-crimped in order to function in a rimless case.

You said they are 93 grain, which is consistent with standard .380 bullet weights, but just for fun have you checked the diameter?

I wondered about that 93 grain bullet but see it as a legitimate revolver bullet in the Lyman Cast book. However, here the bullet is described as having no crimp groove and becomes suspect.

 

[Toprudder]

The Lee FCD that I have for 38/357 applies a roll crimp. I did buy the special collet crimp die for 357, it works well for plated bullets that don't have a crimp groove or cannelure. It will not work for 38spl cases, though.

 

[Walkalong]

To make sure I have a roll crimp in place

I use magnification.

 

[thomas15]

I shot some, and there didn't appear to be any set back or movement forward, but they were very light loads.

Maybe it's my eyes. What are factory crimps supposed to look like? How can I tell if they are right. Roll crimps are easy to see the difference, but I'm struggling with the FCD.

I have a 38 spl Lee die and it applies a roll crimp. I'm assuming that you are going to continue using light loads for this bullet?

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I made up another batch, and this time I used a medium/high charge, and crimped with my seating die. I seated, then removed the adjuster screw, and then applied a light roll crimp. They all turned out perfect, and shot great. If the FCD is just a fancy roll crimper, I see no need to change from using the seating die. It's easier for me to manipulate and see the roll. I do intend to get a taper crimp die though for use on plated bullets.

 

[RealGun]

I made up another batch, and this time I used a medium/high charge, and crimped with my seating die. I seated, then removed the adjuster screw, and then applied a light roll crimp. They all turned out perfect, and shot great. If the FCD is just a fancy roll crimper, I see no need to change from using the seating die. It's easier for me to manipulate and see the roll. I do intend to get a taper crimp die though for use on plated bullets.

I would not have felt the need to remove the seating stem and do a separate pass. You really have failed to master the timing of the seating and crimp. I set the crimp that I like with an empty, sized case. I set the seating by backing the crimp out a turn first. I then back out the seating stem, reset the crimp to its locked position and then use the seated bullet to set the seating stem. That works just fine, although I do recheck the results for both crimp and seat and do use a cartridge gauge, which is a good judge of the quality of the crimp.

 

[Skinnedknuckles]

You are correct, the FCD for .38 Special is "just a fancy roll crimper". It applies the roll crimp as a separate operation, which has particular advantages when applying a roll crimp to certain types of bullets, such as plated and lead bullets without cannelure. It also has a sizing ring, supposedly at SAAMI maximum case diameter, to correct any possible case bulging and assure proper chambering. FCD for rifles is a completely different animal and applies a completely different type crimp using a completely different mechanism.

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

I would not have felt the need to remove the seating stem and do a separate pass. You really have failed to master the timing of the seating and crimp. I set the crimp that I like with an empty, sized case. I set the seating by backing the crimp out a turn first. I then back out the seating stem, reset the crimp to its locked position and then use the seated bullet to set the seating stem. That works just fine, although I do recheck the results for both crimp and seat and do use a cartridge gauge, which is a good judge of the quality of the crimp.

I seat and crimp both at the same time when there is a crimp groove. The only reason I did it this way with these bullets is because they are really soft, and the seating die still pushes down a little while crimping. Since there is no groove, it tends to shave a little lead as it is pushing down; not much, but a little around where the crimp is. If I do it in two steps, there is no shaving.

The reason that I remove the adjuster screw, is just a personal preference.

 

[RealGun]

I seat and crimp both at the same time when there is a crimp groove. The only reason I did it this way with these bullets is because they are really soft, and the seating die still pushes down a little while crimping. Since there is no groove, it tends to shave a little lead as it is pushing down; not much, but a little around where the crimp is. If I do it in two steps, there is no shaving.

The reason that I remove the adjuster screw, is just a personal preference.

You know what you experienced, but my mental picture is that once the crimp and COL are set, THEN I bring the seating stem down while holding the press handle firmly in the full crimp position. That should have the timing of the crimp and seating in sync.