lee has a new single stage press coming out Lee APP

[GW Staar]

Rats! This post starts new page....the beginning of my little odyssey is in the last post on the previous page.....didn't see that coming.

What's four more holes in my already very holy bench top!
Space is about gone, so I removed my RCBS bench primer....to be remounted on a Lee plate to plug back in in this same spot when the Lee isn't needed.


Redding Grx (.40s&w) die mounted....bottom in top, top in bottom....and a popcorn jar screwed in to the top (er bottom) of the die. Makes more sense to let gravity help.....besides....if you want to use the case feeder, that's the only way.

As you can see it took two tries to get the hole in the lid right....drill size....a memory issue. You just directly screw the lid on, no bottom nut necessary. Lee's little bottle was too small and the lid too thick for the threads I had left sticking out the bottom.

Pretty slick....when you ignore the mess always on my bench during a new project.
Notice: the red electrical tape to make the tubing tight....started about a quarter inch from the bottom...two turns. (bottom is tighter, go figure)



Notice: The fingers holding the .40 case in mid air over the mouth of the die. Start the arm motion and the fingers spread, dropping the case perfectly each time in the center of the die. Slick. The so simple spring shuttle pusher/puller is flat ingenious. The spring pushes on the shuttle's lower spring mount, which instantly opens the jaws around the case. Comes with a smaller jaw size for small dia. bullets.

The new plowed case holders that came in the APP Deluxe box. Too bad there wasn't 4 adding #1, but there's always something to gripe about for us gripers.

Compare to the ones shown on all the web sites: https://leeprecision.com/home.php?cat=19560
John Lee, doesn't waste time....he changed the shell holder design immediately after seeing the guy on Youtube struggle with high primers. It would take RCBS 2 years to make such a change.

Thanks, John......think about buying RCBS, would you? You need a high end division, anyway.

 

[AR-Bossman]

@GW Staar
Is that really red plastic or did you paint it?

 

[GW Staar]

Yup, red plastic. Their pre-productions tools had a red base.....that's gone, so they made the handle and the shuttle parts red ...... cheaper I'll bet. Smart. I helped with the red electricians tape on the tube.

Oh, btw, I don't have any problem with the plastic handle design....my hands are on the small side so maybe that's why.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Notice: the red electrical tape to make the tubing tight....started about a quarter inch from the bottom...two turns.

Taking notes...haven't got mine set up yet

Notice: The fingers holding the .40 case in mid air over the mouth of the die.

Interesting. The fingers on my press are made of black plastic

John Lee, doesn't waste time....he changed the shell holder design immediately after seeing the guy on Youtube struggle with high primers

Does that mean that my shell holders are obsolete before I even take them out of the wrapping?

 

[AR-Bossman]

Taking notes...haven't got mine set up yet


Interesting. The fingers on my press are made of black plastic


Does that mean that my shell holders are obsolete before I even take them out of the wrapping?

#3.. yes, those are old news. Lee would probably change them out.
#2.. yeah mine are black, too. Not sure if the red is the newer style or they are mixed.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The new plowed case holders that came in the APP Deluxe box. Too bad there wasn't 4 adding #1, but there's always something to gripe about for us gripers

I ordered the #1 in my initial order from Titan...something else to be replaced

 

[GW Staar]

I ordered the #1 in my initial order from Titan...something else to be replaced

There's a good side maybe......your shell holders will work with good brass and recessed primers. BTW, part of the shell holder improvement is underneath....I should have taken a picture of that.....they swivel with ease snapped in place. I understand that free turning is important to prevent hangups....as per John Lee's blog on the APP's opening page.

Maybe having Titan ignore my order was a blessing after all. I'm still a little annoyed by the fact that I still don't see a swager coming anytime soon....I didn't order one from Grafs because they aren't even listed....let alone back-ordered. The other annoyance is the way shipping is these days it's not feasible to order one-zies........and finding everything at one source is not possible for now.

I don't know what's more annoying.....promised new products from RCBS that comes 6 months to a year later, or promised new products that have a 2 week "in stock" notice that keep being set back, 2 months and counting. At least Lee seems to be improving the products and updating them during the "out of stock" period. With the Pro Chuckers change is slow and slowing. Troubling sign.

 

[Walkalong]

your shell holders will work with good brass and recessed primers.

High primer alert?

 

[Demi-human]

I guess I’m lucky I couldn’t get Titan to take my money...
I’m going to give Midsouth a turn for it. I have been chomping the bit and @GW Staar’s posts have put me over. I’ve put it off long enough, it’s spring, I’m ordering!

 

[GW Staar]

High primer alert?

Well, only in the fact that such cases don't go into the flat shell holders well.....new or spent....same problem. And rough/dinged/misshapen case heads too. You'd want to purge those first anyway, I'd think. You didn't see the first videos from new users on youtube? John Lee did.....and acted. Impressed me at least....

I took more pictures of the shell holder and shell holder adapter. John Lee's instructions now say that the X-Press shell holders should rotate freely. As a stop gap measure for early adopters, he suggested people take the spring out of the shell holder adapter....or at least find a weaker spring....until they fixed the problem. The shell holders I have shown are the "fixed" ones.


Above is the shell holder adapter......see the raised nobby in the middle? That's spring loaded....it has to go down before the shell holder will slide on.....then it's spring pressure prevents the early shell holder design from rotating freely.

The purpose for the "knobby" (Lee called it the detent) is to keep the shell hold centered vs. the old side spring used in other presses that only insured it wasn't centered.

Besides the recesses on top of the die for proud primers and such, the following picture shows how they took care of the rotation problem underneath.



A typical upside down Lee (non-X-Press) holder on the left.....the new X-Press on the right.

 

[AR-Bossman]

Well, only in the fact that such cases don't go into the flat shell holders well.....new or spent....same problem. And rough/dinged/misshapen case heads too. You'd want to purge those first anyway, I'd think. You didn't see the first videos from new users on youtube? John Lee did.....and acted. Impressed me at least....

Very rare to see. He went at it right now, and even though mine probably coulda been shipped, Titan waited and got the new style holders put in the box. Hornady only BARELY finally listened to the people complaining about case tipping to even try and offer up a solution. Now that 3d printing is out and about, they are a day late and many dollars short. I don't even know if RCBS even cares about their progressives. You can count on your hand the number of threads about those things.

 

[GW Staar]

Very rare to see. He went at it right now, and even though mine probably coulda been shipped, Titan waited and got the new style holders put in the box. Hornady only BARELY finally listened to the people complaining about case tipping to even try and offer up a solution. Now that 3d printing is out and about, they are a day late and many dollars short. I don't even know if RCBS even cares about their progressives. You can count on your hand the number of threads about those things.

Can't say I disagree.....except that RCBS is controlled by a large sporting goods corp. entity that doesn't have a clue how to market reloading equipment and obviously doesn't care......which is why I made the comment about wishing Lee Precision would offer to buy the company from them. The Pro Chucker is a great press....smooth as glass, with minor flaws that John Lee could fix about as fast as he fixed the APP's.....I certainly fixed them on mine, and it wasn't that hard.

 

[GW Staar]

Titan finally has the swager in stock so I ordered it and 4 more bushings, and even a bushing adapter for.......my RCBS Summit press......wheels are turning.....too early to comment more on that. We will see if Titan ignores me again...... On their web site my order still says "pending". Hate that word....pending what?....that's all I saw on my previous orders for 3 months! Would prefer a little more communication than "pending".

I tried the Lee decapper set up on the APP late last night. Works, but not without help pushing the .40 s&w's into the center of the shell holders. The transition from the slide to the new, plowed shell holder, is somehow not exact enough......and I see no adjustment possibilities yet. It was late, I was tired, so maybe the light will come on today. And maybe you early adopters have a trick to share.

Even with the needed help it's still the fastest way to deprime I've seen. But it'd be nice to fix what's caused the cases to tilt and stop on the transition line.....at work now so it'll have to wait.

So far, the biggest negative on the press is the lack of adjustment....but hey I'm new with it....I may be missing something.....and maybe with a smarter user it don't need no adjustment. Instructions say to use STP oil treatment for lube on the ram slides.....but I'd bet not on the plastic rail......I need to examine that slide closer....maybe some graphite?

 

[GW Staar]

Titan finally has the swager in stock so I ordered it and 4 more bushings, and even a bushing adapter ................ We will see if Titan ignores me again...... On their web site my order still says "pending". Hate that word....pending what?....that's all I saw on my previous orders for 3 months! Would prefer a little more communication than "pending".

Today I went back to Titan to check my order status......it said, "Shipped"! Just ordered it yesterday. Maybe the long 3 month rationing of APP's and parts is finally over. No more "pending", yes!

I tried the Lee decapper set up on the APP late last night. Works, but not without help pushing the .40 s&w's into the center of the shell holders. The transition from the slide to the new, plowed shell holder, is somehow not exact enough......
........ what's caused the cases to tilt and stop on the transition line......

I played with the deprimer again using .40S&W, and the.40 cal X-Press case holder. Finally had some success. It required more effort than I thought it would. What caused the cases to tilt was that the plowed portion of the caseholder was widened at each end to make it transition, I'm sure, but it's too wide and the cases tilt into the plow and stop. Not good.....betcha the original caseholder design would work better.....hope they don't toss those yet. Good brass with recessed primers worked with those....maybe John Lee was too hasty.

The following steps were required to make these work right:

1. I used a fine round file to deburr all of the X-Press shellholder edges, then polished them to help the cases past where the hard edges blocked and stopped the cases.(used 400 and 600 grit sand paper to polish.
2. The design of the sliding shuttle needs a little work. The cases are only held by the closing pincer, and it has to ride above the caseholder.....so it doesn't push from the bottom allowing the case to tilt and jam. The shuttle had a radius at the bottom, but it's like an eighth inch behind the case....never touches it...so no help at all. So .... I used a pin drill and drilled two tiny holes allowing me to make a wire pusher at the bottom of the case. (I used the very pliable wire from Christmas tree ball hangers....had a few in a drawer left over from Christmas) I'll post a picture tomorrow. here:

Anyway, that wire pusher is at the bottom, sliding against the shuttle slide and against the case base too.....preventing the tilt into the plowed part of the X-Press shell holder.

Both, the wire and the polishing was required (the shell holders had too much friction with the case bases sliding across them.....and still it needed graphite rubbed into the slide and into the shell holder as well. Finally it works every time without manual pushing of the shuttle!

I don't know if the same problem happens with other calibers, but it sure did with .40. Almost hoping the #1 case holder coming is the old style.....but then .357 case bases are wider than the case, so maybe they won't tilt into the plowed center of the caseholder. We will see.

 

[GW Staar]

First a picture and a quick video clip that shows the problem:


This is locked up...sometimes it just requires a push behind it, other times the finger push backwards is necessary....see video below:



The new shellholders allows the .40S&W case to tilt and drop a little into the plowed area, locking it before it finishes the slide into the holder.

The fix was:
1. To first polish (I just used 400 then 600 grit sandpaper) the edges going into the plowed area, and the sliding surfaces that grate on the brass head which can also keep the slide from finishing its stroke, pictured below....shellholder smoothed is #19. Rubbing graphite into the plastic slide top and sides and burnishing it real good into the shellholder I think helped.


Notice the rounded (deburred?) edges compared to #4.
Just this step worked pretty good if not 100% for Winchester brass, but not acceptable at all for the rougher case bases of Speer brass due, I think, to their roughly embossed labeling method.

2. To add a wire pusher described in the previous post and pictured below:


As you can see, the recessed rounded indent on the shuttle doesn't do anything. The cure was a wire made to ride against the case head against the slide surface, pushing the case head below the pinchers. Just a soft metal, very bendable Christmas ball hanger, and 4 holes drilled in Lee's shuttle...you can see them if you look for them.



The area against the case is bent downward to touch the slide....above that would allow it to go into the ejector recess and defeat the purpose.....yes you could make it longer to go into the ejector recess, but then the case wouldn't fall to the slide.

My "tilt preventer" was made by drilling four holes with a hand twisted pin drill and shaping and pushing the shape through the holes. The bends touch the case on two sides and the shuttle in the middle allowing it to stay put without glue or a fastener.

Like I already mentioned, I don't know if this is a problem with just .40S&W. or what, because I see it working fine in some videos.

It's one thing to make a case shuttle work perfect with one caliber.....entirely a different matter making it work equally well with all calibers.....

It might be worthwhile to be able to buy more than one shuttle, set up to work with a certain caliber.

 

[GW Staar]

Lest you might think that it now works perfect.......watch the last three cases...... tried it a bunch of times with the same result..... something about the lighter stack I guess.

 

[AR-Bossman]

n/m

 

[GW Staar]

I'm also at a loss trying to come up with an idea on controlling the last couple cases. I know 223 is real bad. The only thing that sometimes works is you don't slow down. You just GO FOR IT. Kinda like pulling the dining table cloth from under the dishes.

You might have something there......I didn't think to graphite the top of the shuttle....just the shellplate and the slide ..... hmmmm.

 

[GW Staar]

Well, the top of the shuttle wasn't the problem.....going too slow was.
Watch:


Yet there was one last problem......see if you can see it....

 

[AR-Bossman]

n/m

 

[GW Staar]

Right....I'm getting too old.....didn't push it back enough to drop one......short stroking it didn't seem to hurt anything except add a stroke. Short stroking a Pro Chucker is NOT a good idea. I had to reshape the wire just a tad is all, then run it faster on the back stroke.......This thing is kinda fun......

Here's that shuttle if you wanted more.
https://leeprecision.com/app-case-inserter-assembly.html

$10 a shuttle huh.....I think it will be worth it to have a custom tweaked one for each caliber. Thanks for the find!

Also helping was a reshape of the wire and recessing it away from the case a 32nd to prevent a case from landing on it :

 

[NapalmMan67]

I've resisted ordering one of these for processing brass..................... so far.

Well, the top of the shuttle wasn't the problem.....going too slow was.
Watch:


Yet there was one last problem......see if you can see it....

I think that was something I heard from a couple videos online that people pointed out, it seems to run better at a faster pace- at least for brass processing.

 

[AR-Bossman]

n/m

 

[DukeConnor]

I am interested in this press for cast bullet sizing. Can I use my existing lee sizers or will i need to buy another sizing die ? thanks

 

[AR-Bossman]

n/m