lee powder meter not repeating

[stevesmith]

my lee reloading kit came with the powder meter for dispensing set amount of powder. i setthe amount and verify it by a scale.. i can never get it to dispense same amoutn 2 times..its always different amounts. if i check it 5 times i got 5 different amounts. any idea what causes this????
is it just a lee product that is crap????
im lost with it. any help wold be greatly appreciated..

Steve Smith

 

[Jim Watson]

What powder?
How much difference?
Have you followed Lee instructions?

 

[Schwing]

The lee perfect powder measure is all I use. There are some things you might want to try.

First, it does not dispense flake powders very well under about 4 grains. If I am loading small cartridges like .380, I avoid flake powders. Second, it is sensitive to static. You can mitigate this by emptying the powder hopper and cleaning it out good with a dryer sheet every now and then. Once you refill the hopper, tap the side a good 20 or so times to help the powder settle. Then when you start dispensing, discard the first 10 or so loads. Mine tends to settle out and be consistent after that.

The last thing I would do is take the entire assembly apart and look for any burs or scratches on the moving parts. Those need to be cleaned off with some light grit sand paper. Then lube all of the moving parts with dry lube. I use graphite on mine.

Don't give up on it. It is a great tool once you get the hang of it. If you are using a digital scale, you might want to verify that it isn't the scale with the problem too.

 

[Jlr2267]

Run some powder through it...maybe 1/4 lb, then throw a charge...measure that single charge 5 times.

How much do the 5 measurements vary?

Now throw 5 consecutive charges, measuring each...how much do they vary?

This will tell you if you have a powder measure problem, or a scale problem

Edit: schwing makes a good point that small charges of flaky powders are less consistent. In my experience though, the Lee measure is quite useful and precise, and gets its share of the reloading duties.

 

[stevesmith]

What powder?
How much difference?
Have you followed Lee instructions?

using 90 grains of retumbo so its not a powder its small tube shape pellets
it varies from a few tenths to more than a grain

 

[stevesmith]

The lee perfect powder measure is all I use. There are some things you might want to try.

First, it does not dispense flake powders very well under about 4 grains. If I am loading small cartridges like .380, I avoid flake powders. Second, it is sensitive to static. You can mitigate this by emptying the powder hopper and cleaning it out good with a dryer sheet every now and then. Once you refill the hopper, tap the side a good 20 or so times to help the powder settle. Then when you start dispensing, discard the first 10 or so loads. Mine tends to settle out and be consistent after that.

The last thing I would do is take the entire assembly apart and look for any burs or scratches on the moving parts. Those need to be cleaned off with some light grit sand paper. Then lube all of the moving parts with dry lube. I use graphite on mine.

Don't give up on it. It is a great tool once you get the hang of it. If you are using a digital scale, you might want to verify that it isn't the scale with the problem too.

it is retumbo so its small pellets..i have not taken it apart to check for that but i will..and i have verified without a doubt the scale isnt the issue

 

[BigBore45]

all powder measuring equipment can be finicky with anything but ball powder really. the key to consistent powder drop is consistent movement and vibration. you also have to let the powder "settle" in the containment tube. and out of curiosity how are you measuring the powder charge? I mean this as in, you are not dumping it in the pan and loosing some from the powder bouncing out of the pan as you pour. or is some of the powder sticking in the case? lots of ifs, but the lee is just like any other powder measure'r out there, it makes a hole for powder to fall into then transfers that powder to a dump location.

 

[stevesmith]

Run some powder through it...maybe 1/4 lb, then throw a charge...measure that single charge 5 times.

How much do the 5 measurements vary?

Now throw 5 consecutive charges, measuring each...how much do they vary?

This will tell you if you have a powder measure problem, or a scale problem

Edit: schwing makes a good point that small charges of flaky powders are less consistent. In my experience though, the Lee measure is quite useful and precise, and gets its share of the reloading duties.

its a different measure everytime i do it from a few tenths to more than a grain..its a great deal actually..ive looked for obvious on the outside not inside..but i tried at least 50 times to dump a even 90 grain of retumbo.. its different everytime fifty measures it might get lucky and hit the number once in a while but nothing concecitive..i am positive its not a scale issue i have checked it perfectly

 

[ironworkerwill]

Charges up in the 300RUM range could be tricky.

As always the lever should be operated at the same speed and effort every time. With a higher charge volume it is more sensitive. If it is new or hardly used the graphite coating on the powder will slick things up the more it is used.

I found that a powder baffle was also helpful. I will find the pattern and post it later.

 

[Jlr2267]

Wait...90 grains? Look at it in terms of %error. If you are throwing 90 grains, a 1 grain error is 1.1% ...

 

[Schwing]

One other thing you might check is the die itself. I use the lee powder through and expanding die and they tend to come from the factory with a lot of oil on them. This inevitably will end up down in the tube. The whole thing needs to be taken apart and cleaned with a solvent that won't leave residue (I use acetone). If you leave that on, it really screws up your throws.

I have unfortunately never used retumbo so I don't have any first hand experience with it in the lee powder measure.

 

[ironworkerwill]

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=197287&d=1397405380 Soda can and some small scissors your in business.

 

[Gadawg88]

I agree that a variance of a few tenths to a full grain or a little more on an intended charge of 90 grains is not a big deal assuming you are not at or exceeding the max charge in the first place. Which Lee powder measure are you using, the stand alone "Perfect Powder Measure" or the on-the-press "Pro Auto Disk." I use the Lee Pro Auto Disk and I get very consistent charges with the powders I use from 4.0 grains up to 30+ grains. I have never loaded anything requiring more powder than that using that powder measure. If you want to get the charge exactly at 90 gn and the measure you have just won't do it (after you work with it for a while and get it broken in and conditioned), you have two choices: 1) set the meter so it consistently throws a little light and then use a trickler to top it off on the scale. Downside is it slows your process down. Upside is it is a cheap solution. 2) Buy a powder dispenser scale combo like the RCBS Chargemaster. Upside is it is awesome, one of the best reloading investments I have made. Downside is it is expensive.

 

[stevesmith]

all powder measuring equipment can be finicky with anything but ball powder really. the key to consistent powder drop is consistent movement and vibration. you also have to let the powder "settle" in the containment tube. and out of curiosity how are you measuring the powder charge? I mean this as in, you are not dumping it in the pan and loosing some from the powder bouncing out of the pan as you pour. or is some of the powder sticking in the case? lots of ifs, but the lee is just like any other powder measure'r out there, it makes a hole for powder to fall into then transfers that powder to a dump location.

i throw the charge into a empty shell first verifying it is empty then i pour it over to a pan with pretty high side on the scale making sure im not loosing any. i have several type pans ill hold in one put another on the scale and zero it off then pour it over to it to verify the weight is the same and it is through 4 different weigh pans. so that eliminates the scale cause they all weigh the same

 

[morcey2]

If it's the PPM, I added a home-made baffle made from a prescription-bottle lid:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9433608&postcount=11

It now meters 4064 extremely well. It doesn't make much of a difference on ball or flake powders but it's a huge improvement on extruded powders. Ball powders meter fine, with a bit of leakage depending on the grain size. Flake powders don't meter very well at all.

Regardless of all of that, the key is consistency in the throwing process. When I lift the handle after throwing, I do it fairly sharply. Also, if your powder measure shares the same bench as your other reloading equipment, especially presses, their usage can cause powder to settle from transmitted vibration. So if you're loading process includes something like resizing 5 cases, charging them, putting them in a loading tray, and then sizing more cases, etc..., the first throw after resizing will probably be on the heavy side and the last one will be on the light side.

Just for fun, have you tried throwing 3 separate 30-grain loads and seeing if that creates a more consistent 90-grain load? I know several people who break up any load over 60 grains into 2 or more individual throws from the measure.

My opinion, and it seems to be shared by others here, is that 1 grain +- in a 90 grain charge is probably not that big if a deal, especially with extruded powders. If it were a ball powder, I'd be a little more concerned. If you want more precision, throw slightly light and trickle up to the charge you want. That's what I do when working up a load so I know exactly what I'm dealing with. Once I've found a load that works well, I'll usually load right out of the measure and weigh every 5 or so to make sure it hasn't drifted.

Side question: What type of scale are you using? If it's an electronic scale, skip the middleman and zero the scale with the empty case and use that as the "pan". The pan shuffle that you're doing right now isn't helping with consistency regardless of whether you're doing it correctly.

Matt

 

[stevesmith]

I agree that a variance of a few tenths to a full grain or a little more on an intended charge of 90 grains is not a big deal assuming you are not at or exceeding the max charge in the first place. Which Lee powder measure are you using, the stand alone "Perfect Powder Measure" or the on-the-press "Pro Auto Disk." I use the Lee Pro Auto Disk and I get very consistent charges with the powders I use from 4.0 grains up to 30+ grains. I have never loaded anything requiring more powder than that using that powder measure. If you want to get the charge exactly at 90 gn and the measure you have just won't do it (after you work with it for a while and get it broken in and conditioned), you have two choices: 1) set the meter so it consistently throws a little light and then use a trickler to top it off on the scale. Downside is it slows your process down. Upside is it is a cheap solution. 2) Buy a powder dispenser scale combo like the RCBS Chargemaster. Upside is it is awesome, one of the best reloading investments I have made. Downside is it is expensive.

what i have done it to get it to throw a tad on the heavy side and scoop out until my correct weight..which after i get to rolling goes rather quick..not sure yet if i want to invest in a auto system..im loading for a 338 lapua and using retumbo with a 250g pill the start charge is 90.0 g

 

[stevesmith]

If it's the PPM, I added a home-made baffle made from a prescription-bottle lid:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=9433608&postcount=11

It now meters 4064 extremely well. It doesn't make much of a difference on ball or flake powders but it's a huge improvement on extruded powders. Ball powders meter fine, with a bit of leakage depending on the grain size. Flake powders don't meter very well at all.

Regardless of all of that, the key is consistency in the throwing process. When I lift the handle after throwing, I do it fairly sharply. Also, if your powder measure shares the same bench as your other reloading equipment, especially presses, their usage can cause powder to settle from transmitted vibration. So if you're loading process includes something like resizing 5 cases, charging them, putting them in a loading tray, and then sizing more cases, etc..., the first throw after resizing will probably be on the heavy side and the last one will be on the light side.

Just for fun, have you tried throwing 3 separate 30-grain loads and seeing if that creates a more consistent 90-grain load? I know several people who break up any load over 60 grains into 2 or more individual throws from the measure.

My opinion, and it seems to be shared by others here, is that 1 grain +- in a 90 grain charge is probably not that big if a deal, especially with extruded powders. If it were a ball powder, I'd be a little more concerned. If you want more precision, throw slightly light and trickle up to the charge you want. That's what I do when working up a load so I know exactly what I'm dealing with. Once I've found a load that works well, I'll usually load right out of the measure and weigh every 5 or so to make sure it hasn't drifted.

Side question: What type of scale are you using? If it's an electronic scale, skip the middleman and zero the scale with the empty case and use that as the "pan". The pan shuffle that you're doing right now isn't helping with consistency regardless of whether you're doing it correctly.

Matt

first i have tried 2 45grain throws..and 3 30 grain throws and no repeating there either..i am throwing a little heavy and dipping back out to a exact number..im working up a load so i need to know exactly what i have..especially on a 338 lapua requiring a shell full of powder everytime. also im using the lyman pro 1500 digital scale..it is a very nice weighing scale with very easy operation. i am a scale techniciam by trade so i have all certified test weight to check the scale to make sure it is weighing properly and linear meaning not just weighing good in one place . i check it from 1 gram to 1500 grams starting in 10 gram increments then by 100 gram increments all the way to capacity to make sure scale is weighing linear and also making sure it back weighs which means adding capacity to the scale and taking off small increments as i go toward zero. if a scaleworks properly a digital scale will weigh as good goin down as it does goin up which no beam can dream of doin correctly..so i have eliminated scale issues all together

 

[stevesmith]

Charges up in the 300RUM range could be tricky.

As always the lever should be operated at the same speed and effort every time. With a higher charge volume it is more sensitive. If it is new or hardly used the graphite coating on the powder will slick things up the more it is used.

I found that a powder baffle was also helpful. I will find the pattern and post it later.

it is brand new and i hope it will lube things up and start working properly. ive only ran about 1/2 pound throughit so far

 

[mdi]

Some powders don't meter consistently, no matter what powder measure is used. I'm not familiar with Retumbo, so I can't help there. If you want consistant powder charges, your methods have to be consistent. Every throw must be done at the same speed and same procedure. Make the handle throw all the way from stop to stop. If you tap the handle at the end of the throw (either up or down) tap it every time. If you "bang" the handle against the stop at the end of the throw, "bang" it every time. If you run the handle slow and pause at the end of the stroke, go slow and pause every time.

I used a Lee PPM for several years (and still do on occasion) and with some powders I get less than .1 grain variation. Just as good as my C-H 502....

 

[ironworkerwill]

pause at the end of the stroke, go slow and pause every time.

Yes!! Make sure you pause. It wont fill or empty entirely if not paused long enough at the top and bottom of the stroke.

 

[stevesmith]

Yes!! Make sure you pause. It wont fill or empty entirely if not paused long enough at the top and bottom of the stroke.

first off retumbo powder is a extruded stick powder..next when i called lee factory about it first thing out of the engineer's mouth was it is a crappy metering device not designed very well..
then went on to say anything other than a ball powder want do real well. he compared it to raking a bag of leaves..the same amount of leaves weight wise want go in to another same size bag 2 times because it want stack the same 2 times no matter if you pack it or not..so i ask what did he suggest i do..first thing he offered to refund my money. but also stated if i wnted to get exact weights measured each time it would take a automated didpensing machine to do that..but to set it to dispense either a little heavy or a little light and then ue a small scoop to trickle it to the exact point i needed to be at.. that is what iwas doin anyway..so afte i get started and get to chugging it moves along rather quick after you get the hang of it..also he did say after running a ample amount of powder through it that the powder itself had graphite in it and would help to lube the inside so it would flow better and flowing better would gve a little more consistancy also..
thanks for your help in this maybe ill invest in automation one day when i get to the point that i feel i need that but until then happy loading..
thanks for all the input..
hope your able to have a wonderful day..

Steve Smith

 

[morcey2]

first off retumbo powder is a extruded stick powder..next when i called lee factory about it first thing out of the engineer's mouth was it is a crappy metering device not designed very well..
then went on to say anything other than a ball powder want do real well. he compared it to raking a bag of leaves..the same amount of leaves weight wise want go in to another same size bag 2 times because it want stack the same 2 times no matter if you pack it or not..so i ask what did he suggest i do..first thing he offered to refund my money. but also stated if i wnted to get exact weights measured each time it would take a automated didpensing machine to do that..but to set it to dispense either a little heavy or a little light and then ue a small scoop to trickle it to the exact point i needed to be at.. that is what iwas doin anyway..so afte i get started and get to chugging it moves along rather quick after you get the hang of it..also he did say after running a ample amount of powder through it that the powder itself had graphite in it and would help to lube the inside so it would flow better and flowing better would gve a little more consistancy also..
thanks for your help in this maybe ill invest in automation one day when i get to the point that i feel i need that but until then happy loading..
thanks for all the input..
hope your able to have a wonderful day..

Steve Smith

If it really is a "crappy metering device not designed very well" how come so many of us are using it with great success? Maybe he meant that they didn't design it with an in-hopper baffle.

Matt

 

[ljnowell]

I'm not really buying that someone from Lee called it a crappy product. Sounds like someone is a little frustrated.

 

[Jim Watson]

With a coarse powder like that, it will work better to set the measure to throw light and trickle up to weight. Trying to scoop powder out of a scale pan is slow.
You could probably set it to where it would throw 90 grains +0, - whatever. That way you would sometimes get one right on, all the rest you would trickle up to 90.

I weigh powder for target shooting and would for trophy hunting.
For plinking, blasting, or offhand practice for hunting, I would take it as thrown.

If I wanted a scientific project I would compare weighed and thrown charges to see if there were really a difference in accuracy.

 

[splattergun]

consistency is key

If you are getting 1 full grain variance from the PPM with extruded stick powder then it is either a defective measure or your method isn't working.

Be certain the handle screw is tightened properly, not too tight, no too loose. It should work smoothly and easily, with just a tad of resistance.
Be certain you are using a consistent stroke on the handle. All the way up and all the way down, every time, making certain that you give the powder enough time to completely fall into the charging chamber and through the drop tube at each step. Sometimes the stick powders can bridge in the drop tube. A tap or 2 can break it free. But be sure to tap it consistently every time.

I learned to use the PPM this way and I have very little variance in my charges, usually less than .1 grain.