Lee's Factory Crimp Die?

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What I came to realize with the Lee FCD in 9mm was it crimped my range brass which had varied case lengths pretty good. It didn’t resize or swage anything else because the rest of my process was in order, and it was setup correctly. I can understand when some people say it works for them, and it does. It might also adjust the oddly shaped case that appears once in a while. It now sits on my son’s progressive because the RCBS die set had a seat/crimp die and we prefer to do that in two steps. I don’t use it anymore but the rest of the process is producing in spec rounds.
I resorted to a Shockbottle case gauge and make sure rounds will chamber so I don’t use the FCD anymore. But I do understand why it ”works” in some cases, and is detrimental in others, or appears to work when it fixes an upstream problem. There’s also the difference between taper and roll crimp cartridges.
 
Time to hear from OP again, no?

Have you any idea why some rounds won't chamber in one revolver but will in another? Don't expect any problem to be solved till you know what it is.

And, solve this one before you move on to considering .45acp & 9mm.
 
For revolver rounds am preferring a Redding profile crimp. While the LFC can be useful for brass that is inconsistent in length, and is easily adjustable for degrees of crimp, it does not work so well for angled cannelures in traditional lead. As others mentioned, it can also swage down lead bullets, especially if your using a larger dia to fit a larger cylinder throat.

Am always using it for semi auto rounds. In 9mm am always using jacketed bullets, and in 45 acp the diameters don't seem to vary as much as revolver bullets. The carbide ring on the LFC sizes down further on the case than the standard sizing dies i have, works better on mixed brass, and can realign an occasional off center bullet. Am using a tighter interference fit than most do. For my uses, it is much better than the standard taper crimp on common seating dies, even if you use the standard seating/crimp die in separate crimping step.

As an aside, ime the LFC in rifle calibers does not do well with angled cannelures (rarer) either (usually the 308 145-150 fmj).
 
I use them when reloading 40s&w and 45ACP, the 40 I run one as a "bulge buster" when resizing range pickups, I know it overworks the brass but it gives me piece of mind for unknown brass. When I use them as a "crimp" die I feel they make it easier to set up the seating die since all you are setting is the bullet depth and then crimp with the FCD, you can overdo it and I think it is easy to do, this is where a set of calipers can be used on the reloading bench, all you want to do is remove the flare (or step), usually somewhere around touch +1/8.
 
Walkalong said:
It might squeeze them down enough to chamber, but is that "fixed?

They are too fat somewhere or they would chamber.

So, are the bullets oversized? Are they seated crooked? Did you over crimp and bulge the round at the crimp? I'd rather go after those possible issues before I just squeezed the rounds to fit, as that can cause its own issues sometimes.

An old Lee FCD post of mine.

From the link:

"The FCD will squeeze it down and make it fit, and the new reloader pats themselves on the back and calls it good, whereas if they hadn't used it they would eventually run into a problem with a tight (Within spec but tight) chamber and learn to fix the issues by adjustment of dies/user improvement of starting bullets straighter. (Even sliding sleeve seaters do a better job of seating bullets straight if they start out straighter. I have proven that to myself. They cannot totally fix a sloppy start of the bullet.)

A lot of pistol gamers use them so everything will absolutely fit and not cause a stoppage during a competition, as the penalties are so severe for a stoppage. Some use a case gauge and check all rounds, some do both. Things happen, fat bullets, got one a little crooked being in a hurry loading 500 or 1K rounds for matches, and the FCD will make sure you don't have a stoppage due to a fat reload.

I look at the FCD as an "advanced" reloaders tool, not a beginners tool.

I'll say again, if you are feeling a fair amount of resistance of your reloads in the carbide ring of the FCD on a lot/all of your rounds, stop and investigate, because something is amiss, even if it is simply an undersized FCD. You should be feeling very light to almost no resistance in the carbide ring."
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This ^^^^

I use the FCD on all my pistol rounds(380, 9mm. 38 SPL, 45 ACP and 45 Colt). Can they swage lead bullets? Yup. Can they "fix"or cover up reloading issues? Yup.

Great advice from Walkalong,

I'll say again, if you are feeling a fair amount of resistance of your reloads in the carbide ring of the FCD on a lot/all of your rounds, stop and investigate, because something is amiss, even if it is simply an undersized FCD. You should be feeling very light to almost no resistance in the carbide ring."
Click to expand...
 
9mmepiphany said:
"All my autos" would seem to imply more than one.
Which of your auto cartridges, besides the 9mm, isn't a "straight wall cartridge?"

I believe the question posed to you was specifically, "Which cartridge does the 9mm FCD bulge bust"...which I don't think you've answered
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Ok, I'll be more specific:
As to your question, all of my "Auto''s" except one are technically "tapered", not straight wall. The exception is my Tokarev, which is bottleneck.

357, 45c, 44mag are straight wall.
9mm, .380, 45acp, 40sw are all tapered.

To address @geodude's question more specifically:

The 9mm FCD is used on 9mm (luger). 45acp FCD used on 45acp. 10mm FCD used on 10mm. 40sw FCD is used for 40sw. 380 FCD is used on 380acp. My understanding is that you can not use 9mm on .380 or others and cannot use the 10mm on 40sw because of the different tapers.🙂
 
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GeoDudeFlorida said:
I wish the moderators had not virtually forbidden any positive comments on this tool. It is useful when applied correctly to a number of loading methods. Such a shame it gets a bad rap based on incorrect usage.
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I believe that is an unfair statement. @9mmepiphany and I in particular have both given positives about the Lee FCD for pistols,
as well as the perceived negative. Same as any other piece of equipment. I bought two, tried them out, discontinued use of them. YMMV.

I'm not a pistol gamer, or I might use them as another failsafe against fit related feeding/chambering issues since the penalty that results
is so large during a competition. I don't know, might just use gauge blocks.
 
Wonder if OP has ever seen an FCD? Here are two in 45acp. Disassembled obviously. And this is taper crimp only of course.

If you look closely you'll see a ring inside the die body. THAT my friend is what drives people nuts:)

It'll swage (actually "draw") a bullet or cause the Chinese to invade Taiwan or who knows what else.

Or to others it'll "fix" a problem.

Still others say it's putting Bondo on a dent one is too lazy to pound out.

You'll also see two completed rounds in the picture--

One is perched on top of the die's actual taper crimping sleeve. It works just like any other taper crimping sleeve. No voodoo. Just adjust for the amount of crimp you want.

The second round was dropped into the die body--it fit loosely with virtually no contact with the ring and thus no drawing, swaging, nor anything else. How could that be?

The combined diameter of the brass + bullet is less than the inside diameter of the ring. That's all. Again, no voodoo.

But, if the combined diameter is larger, either because the bullet is oversized or the brass too thick, then you'll get the squeeze down to the size of the ring. Is that a bad thing? Maybe.

ALSO, if the bullet is sitting crooked in the case the ring will squeeze it or something else so it fits. Is that a bad thing? Well, why's the bullet sitting crooked?

And, incidentally, I do not use the FCD for 45acp because I now use a Redding micrometer adjustable cause it's cool looking.
IMG_4642.jpeg
 
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I learned to handload decades before the LFCD was on the market, so I had to find the source of the problem and correct it. I received a FCD in a 357sig from a friend that passed away. So when I started loading for the 357sig I decided to give it a try. For those that don't know the 357sig has a very short neck in which it has to hold the bullet. I developed a load using my std method and decided to see of the LFCD would help me. Crimping the neck with the LFCD actually reduced neck tension causing the group to open up almost twice from what i was getting. The crony data showed the inconsistenty too. So I put the LFCD in the drawer never to be used again. The Lee FCD in the 357sig is a crimp only die, does not touch the body like their rifle FCD. I was using jacketed bullets, TXP and RMR's. Any post sizing is going to cause problem. Yes, it may allow a round to chamber that would not other wise, but it changed something in the process that was not done properly to start with.
 
Walkalong said:
I believe that is an unfair statement. @9mmepiphany and I in particular have both given positives about the Lee FCD for pistols,
as well as the perceived negative. Same as any other piece of equipment. I bought two, tried them out, discontinued use of them. YMMV.

I'm not a pistol gamer, or I might use them as another failsafe against fit related feeding/chambering issues since the penalty that results
is so large during a competition. I don't know, might just use gauge blocks.
Click to expand...
With all respect to you and @9mmepiphany (and I mean it, you have a difficult role) when you guys say something, we have to figure out what you mean and what you might mean. It's the nature of the relationship. Not sure if I agree with @GeoDudeFlorida but I certainly know where he's coming from.
 
Walkalong said:
I believe that is an unfair statement. @9mmepiphany and I in particular have both given positives about the Lee FCD for pistols,
as well as the perceived negative. Same as any other piece of equipment. I bought two, tried them out, discontinued use of them. YMMV.

I'm not a pistol gamer, or I might use them as another failsafe against fit related feeding/chambering issues since the penalty that results
is so large during a competition. I don't know, might just use gauge blocks.
Click to expand...
If you found 5 in 500 built for a shoot would you break those 5 down or run those 5 through an fcd and use them for warm up? I also don't know if one gets enough feedback on a progressive to know if it's a hard case sizing or being sized by the fcd. The use case is so varied its hard to pin down.
 
CQB45ACP said:
And, incidentally, I do not use the FCD for 45acp because I now use a Redding micrometer adjustable cause it's cool looking
Click to expand...

That is the die that enabled me to put my FCD on the shelf, not because its cool looking, but because it's tolerances are so tight that they seat the bullets straight every time. Cast bullets are slightly oversized and a little tilt gave me problems. The micrometer seating is definitely a bonus.

I will say though, when I used a RCBS seater with the FCD, if it did do bad things to my loads, I couldn't shoot the difference and never got any greater amount of leading. YMMV.
 
Laphroaig said:
That is the die that enabled me to put my FCD on the shelf, not because its cool looking, but because it's tolerances are so tight that they seat the bullets straight every time. Cast bullets are slightly oversized and a little tilt gave me problems. The micrometer seating is definitely a bonus.

I will say though, when I used a RCBS seater with the FCD, if it did do bad things to my loads, I couldn't shoot the difference and never got any greater amount of leading. YMMV.
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I actually meant the micrometer taper crimp die, but have the seater too. I confess to being a micrometer fan boy. Even started a thread about "why no micrometer expander?"
IMG_4643.jpeg
 
Oh my. The answer to his evils is in post 7. No reason to spend more money. I've botched the crimp but learned from it. Experience will fix his problem. My reloading has been around longer than the factory crimp die
 
AJC1 said:
If you found 5 in 500 built for a shoot would you break those 5 down or run those 5 through an fcd and use them for warm up? I also don't know if one gets enough feedback on a progressive to know if it's a hard case sizing or being sized by the fcd. The use case is so varied its hard to pin down.
Click to expand...
Not that you're asking me, but over the years the more I tried to create the "perfect" cartridge, the fewer anomalies I'd accept. I now accept none. It's the one in 99.
 
Walkalong said:
I believe that is an unfair statement. @9mmepiphany and I in particular have both given positives about the Lee FCD for pistols,
as well as the perceived negative. Same as any other piece of equipment. I bought two, tried them out, discontinued use of them. YMMV.

I'm not a pistol gamer, or I might use them as another failsafe against fit related feeding/chambering issues since the penalty that results
is so large during a competition. I don't know, might just use gauge blocks.
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I certainly meant no offense. This statement caught me by surprise:
9mmepiphany said:
I'd really prefer that this thread not turn into a thread of biased opinion sharing (I've used it for years and it's great) and hope that members can couple their opinion with some descriptive comparative experience
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I don’t recall seeing a preemptive admonition like that. I don’t necessarily disagree but what I was actually referring to was the absence of a similar admonition on the other side, “I tried it once and it’s total garbage.” I think both statements should require some explanation. Maybe that’s implied and I misconstrued the statement. If so, I do apologize.
 
AJC1 said:
So you take them appart? For blamo I'm not doing that. For precision rifle I would...
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ALL my ammo is blamo (Jelly Roll's new single) and if that was called for, absolutely, without question.

I'll not go into all the details here, but my long suffering saga with 1000 Acme bullets caused me to pull them all and resize .001" smaller and then reload.

BTW: could've smashed em through an FCD but that'd be super bondo!
 
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GeoDudeFlorida said:
I don’t recall seeing a preemptive admonition like that.
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You should take a look at the recent thread I started asking about a powder suggestions for multiple cartridges.

I don’t necessarily disagree but what I was actually referring to was the absence of a similar admonition on the other side, “I tried it once and it’s total garbage.” I think both statements should require some explanation. Maybe that’s implied and I misconstrued the statement. If so, I do apologize.
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My admonition against "bias opinions without support " was intended to apply to both sides of the argument.

I originally didn't include an example and only added one for clarity of the intent. It didn't occur to me that the implication wouldn't be clear
 
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Many times, when Lee Factory Crimp Dies are discussed, there is a potential for confusion since Lee makes two styles of Factory Crimp Die.

The original style is the Factory Crimp Die (FCD) that places a segmented factory style crimp at the case mouth. This die is available for most rifle cartridges as well as most rimmed revolver cartridges. It is offered for very few rimless pistol cartridges.

The second style is the Carbide Factory Crimp Die (CFCD). This is likely the most popular and talked about Factory Crimp Die of the two. This die has a carbide sizer ring at the base that sizes the outside of the case after bullet seating, and has an adjustable floating crimp insert that places the crimp on the case mouth. This die can also be used as a case-thru bulge buster in conjunction with the Lee Bulge Buster Kit by removing the top adjustment screw and floating crimp insert. This Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die is available for most popular pistol and revolver cartridges.
 
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