Legal Handgun Ownership: 18 or 21?

[Ohio Rifleman]

Hello there, this is my first post here and I look forward to lots of interesting gun and weapon discussions and information. Anyway, I am under the impression, according to the law, it is legal for an 18 year old to own or posess and handgun, but it is illegal for anyone under 21 to purchase a handgun. Keep in mind, I'm 19 years old and would very much like to own a handgun. So, if this is true, I could legally own a handgun if I got someone over 21 to buy it and give it to me. Is this true?

 

[Daniel T]

Getting someone to buy a handgun from a dealer and give it to you would be a straw purchase. Most defintely not legal.

However, as long as there is not a state law about it, you can legally buy a handgun from a private party if you are under the age of 21. The catch is, you can't buy handgun ammo until you are 21. Brilliant.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

Hmm..well, I live in Ohio, obviously, and the law reads like this, according to NRA-ILA: "It is unlawful to sell a handgun to a person under 21, or any firearm to a person under 18. It is unlawful to furnish any firearm to a person who is under 18 or furnish any handgun to a person under 21, except for lawful hunting, sporting or educational purposes."

It's that last part that gives me hope; the "lawful hunting, sporting, or educational purposes" part that makes me think I could legally get someone to buy a handgun for me. Am I reading the law right?

 

[Brian Williams]

You can inherit one when you are just born and it is yours, but to buy one you must be 18 for a private party transfer or 21 for a FFL dealer transfer.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

Is it just me, or do these laws make no sense? For example, at 18, one can legally own a pistol-caliber carbine, like a Hi-Point 40 S&W or 9mm. However, at 18, one cannot purchase the ammunition for a gun like that. Also, at 18 you can buy a handgun from a private individual but not a FFL dealer? What?!

 

[Flyboy]

You can inherit one when you are just born and it is yours, but to buy one you must be 18 for a private party transfer or 21 for a FFL dealer transfer.

Brian, I read that differently. Take it as two separate statements (which it is):

"It is unlawful to sell a handgun to a person under 21, or any firearm to a person under 18.

This doesn't say "for an FFL to sell a handgun," it says "to sell a handgun." That would seem to include private-party transfers as well as FFL sales.

It is unlawful to furnish any firearm to a person who is under 18 or furnish any handgun to a person under 21, except for lawful hunting, sporting or educational purposes."

In this case, "furnish" doesn't mean "sell," it means "provide," as in "contribute to posession." So when my dad and I used to go to the range, or go hunting, he was furnishing me with firearms. Ownership never transferred, but he provided--handed me--guns, including handguns. This was legal because they were fer lawful hunting and sporting purposes.

The second clause doesn't address ownership--particularly purchase--at all, just the act of making the firearm available. The only thing that seems to address sale is the first clause, which just says no selling handguns to anybody under 21.

Now, here's the question. Mind you, by asking this, I'm certainly not advocating illegal activity, but I'd be interested to know how it would be viewed. Suppose our underage friend asked me to buy a handgun for him to use, but I retained ownership? Strictly speaking, it wouldn't be a straw purchase, because the original purchaser retains ownership; however, I know how the BATF loves to play games with concepts like "constructive posession." Anybody want to weigh in on that?

 

[Lou629]

but I'd be interested to know how it would be viewed. Suppose our underage friend asked me to buy a handgun for him to use, but I retained ownership? Strictly speaking, it wouldn't be a straw purchase

IANAL, but it seems to me that you'd be pushing things a tad with big brother. If the idea was kept strictly between you and our younger friend, and nobody ever got the wiser, chances are you could "get away" with it. But you'd be taking a huge risk upon yourselves. If word got out, you'd both be cooked for life.

I think that if there's two ways to view something, a government agency is going to take the negative outlook every time, ( think IRS audit for example ) and in a case like you describe you'll suddenly find yourself guilty till proven innocent, ( think IRS again ) more so than innocent till proven guilty. You'd both also likely end up becoming poster-boys for the Brady bunch by attempting to try this some time. A lose/lose proposition from where i sit. YMMV.

 

[KINGMAX]

Keep it at 21

I say keep it at 21 unless you are a VET.

 

[Outlaws]

Flyboy has it right.

You can borrow a handgun from your parents and take it to the range. You just can't buy it form anyone.

You with me? Have your parents buy it and then use it.

 

[Flyboy]

IANAL, but it seems to me that you'd be pushing things a tad with big brother. If the idea was kept strictly between you and our younger friend, and nobody ever got the wiser, chances are you could "get away" with it. But you'd be taking a huge risk upon yourselves. If word got out, you'd both be cooked for life.

I agree that it's probably not within the spirit of the rules, but then again, there are a lot of people and organizations that buy firearms for the specific purpose of letting other people use them. Ranges (rental guns), shooting teams, etc. do it all the time, and it's legal for them. Some security agencies buy duty weapons to assign to agents. At what point does it cross the line? It's an interesting thought experiment.

 

[carebear]

Check the law boys. There may be State laws in play but you're dead wrong on Federal law on buying handguns from private parties at 18.

I bought my first 3 handguns and a shotgun from a coworker (private purchase) at age 18 (1989). I was absolutely legal to purchase, own and possess them at that age under Federal Law. Similarly, there is no Federal restriction on purchasing ammuntion over 18 from a private party.

From the ATF website FAQ's

(B14) May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)? [Back]

Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.

[18 U.S.C. 922(x)]


(B16) What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individualswant to engage in a firearms transaction? [Back]

When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are "same-State" residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S. C. §§ 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.

There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements.

Please note that if a private person wants to obtain a firearm from a private person who resides in another State, the firearm will have to be shipped to an FFL in the buyer's State. The FFL will be responsible for record keeping. See also Question B3.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I was absolutely legal to purchase, own and possess them at that age under Federal Law.

Unfortunately, Ohio Rifleman has a state law to contend with.

 

[carebear]

Thanks HK,

Kinda figured that. I was more responding to those who thought the handguns and ammo restrictions were Federal.

The existing Fed. laws are bad enough, no reason to give them any more authority than they already claim.

 

[mp510]

The catch is, you can't buy handgun ammo until you are 21. Brilliant.

From a licensee.

Ohio Rifleman, you asked if it is legal for a sub 21 year old to buy pistol caluiber ammo for a rifle.
The rule is, 18 if the ammo is intended to be fed through a rifle and 21 if it is intended to be fired through a handgun.

Examples:
John Teenager purchases a Ruger PC-9 9mm semi-automatic carbine. He wants to take it to the firing range and sight it in, and use it for frequent target practice. He is still 19. Legally, he would be able to buy the ammo by law (though some retailers hae stricter regulations, as may states).

Jenny Notwentyone, 18, goes to Ordnance Mart, a licensed gun store, to purchase some 9mm ammo. She intends to use this ammo in her friends Glock 17 pistol when she takes her to the range the next day. When the clerk asks whether she intends to use it in a long gun or a handgun. She replies handgun, and the clerk is unable to sell her the ammo.

Jack Bigpistol, who is not yet 21 but lives in a state where under 21's are allowed to own handguns goes to Cheap-Mart to buy some 7.62x39mm ammo. He intends to fire it in a TC Contender pistol. Even though the round is commonly a rifle round (think SKS or AK-47), he can't buy it since he intends on using it in a handgun.

 

[Lupinus]

depends on the state. In some you can own a handgun before 21 and in others you can't. Someone buying one for you with your money is or isn't a straw purchase and is a gray area that people debate over. It is not a straw buy though if someone were to buy a gun and then gift it to you, only a straw if they buy it with your money.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

This is all really, really confusing...why can't gun laws be nice and streamlined and simple? Anyway, this is a full summary of the gun laws in my beloved home state of Ohio, according to the NRA-ILA: http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/StateLaws.aspx?ST=OH I'm not sure if that'll help clear things up, really. mp510, how the heck can you prove one way or the other if the ammo you're buying is going to be fired through a rifle or handgun? I mean, .22 is a perfect example, there are both rifles and pistols that use that caliber. How can you prove it? Is the store supposed to take your word for it? Can anyone say, difinitively, whether or not the law of the federal government and/or the state of Ohio would prohibit a 19 year old resident from owning/posessing a handgun?

 

[Gray Peterson]

Just remember folks:

Straw purchasing issues deal with firearms buying, not ammunition, as far as federal law goes.

 

[just one question]

....

Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.

So...by posses do you mean use, keep and store themselves.....or do you mean "little Johnny junior can go hunting but when he is done, he must give the gun back to big Johnny senior"

I've been looking for the gun laws regarding minors but I don't even know where to start.


And are the purposes you listed the only ones or does it cover more?

 

[VARifleman]

For possession, it means the kid is in sole possession ie the adult is not around.

 

[VARifleman]

Ohio Rifleman, Federal law does not disallow a 19 yr old purchase or possesion based on their age, only their purchase from an FFL. Your state law however, does.

 

[just one question]

....

Does that include storing their firearms themselves?


The reason I ask is I am a minor and my father's safe is over flowing and he wants my guns outa' there. We've discussed me buying a 8-10 gun safe and putting them in my own room but before I do anything I want to know the laws.

What government website has the laws? (I've heard the NRA has outdated info)

 

[AJAX22]

Just a thought, but if the pistol is unregistered, how do they tell that you bought it and didn't inherit it? Or... get your parents to buy it for you, I think they'd be hard pressed to charge you with underage posession of daddys handgun. especially if he wrote you a note to keep with it.

 

[carebear]

just one,

To be clear, FEDERAL law does NOT prohibit you from having sole ownership, possession or use of a handgun at 19 (age 18 and up). Nor does Federal law prohibit you buying a handgun from a private party in your home state. Check ATF's FAQ page for details, that's what I copied the info I posted above (post #11) from.

You need to check your state's laws for whether purchase, ownership, possession, etc. is legal for you under state statute. Quick place to check, that stays pretty well updated, is www.packing.org .

As far as ammo goes, as far as I've seen the clerks just take your word for it. Were I underage, unless they actually asked me to sign some kind of state or federal form (that could potentially lead to fraud charges) to "prove" I was using the ammo in a long gun, I'd just lie. If someone wants to make a stupid law that is effectively unenforceable they deserve to have it circumvented on general principle.

They aren't likely to actually check. After all, what can they do, follow you around until they see you load it in a handgun?

 

[VARifleman]

Does that include storing their firearms themselves?


The reason I ask is I am a minor and my father's safe is over flowing and he wants my guns outa' there. We've discussed me buying a 8-10 gun safe and putting them in my own room but before I do anything I want to know the laws.

What government website has the laws? (I've heard the NRA has outdated info)

Are you in your parents house? If so, your dad still retains possession as long as you have him with you when you go shooting.

 

[Art Eatman]

just one question: As long as "your" guns are in your parents' house, the law is unconcerned whether a gunsafe is in your room, your parents' room or in the basement.

Ohio Rifleman, gun laws are based on emotions, not efficacy in reducing either crime or accidents. Therefore there can be no rational pattern, when you have ordinances and laws that are imposed by all levels of government.

Art