legit USAF model 13 Aircrewman
- Thread starter robbt
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First, the term Model 13 is incorrect. The S&W Model 13 was a heavy barrel .357 version of the Model 10. The AF guns were called simply the M13.
I strongly recommend that you purchase a copy of The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson by Supica and Nahas, which has a good section on those guns, but which is too long to quote here.
Good luck.
Jim
I strongly recommend that you purchase a copy of The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson by Supica and Nahas, which has a good section on those guns, but which is too long to quote here.
Good luck.
Jim
Sure , if you watch the auction sites you should be able to pick up ( sooner or later) a authentic M-13, Aircrewman . I saw one a while back in excellent condition go for 3200. But there are a LOT of fakes out there that sell for a lot less. Buyer beware!
Roswell 1847
member
Is the Aircrewman the gun they recalled because of failures of the alloy cylinder and reissued with a steel cylinder?
I had an early model 37 that had the alloy cylinder, I traded it off when two chambers bulged enough to chamber the .38 S&W easily.
I had an early model 37 that had the alloy cylinder, I traded it off when two chambers bulged enough to chamber the .38 S&W easily.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Be very cautious!
Jim Supica & Old Town Station are 30 minutes from me, and many of the photo's in the Jim's SCOS&W are of guns belonging to another old friend who lives less then 4 miles from me.
I grew up shooting with him, and rented my first house from him.
Even those guys have been fooled more then once!
We even had one floating around here a couple of years ago that Roy Jinks looked at, and there was no consensus on whether it was a counterfeit or not!
It sold for some very big bucks at a national show with the understanding that the top three S&W experts in the country would not / could not authenticate it as a real one.
Some of them are really really good, but they ain't real M13's!
rcmodel
Jim Supica & Old Town Station are 30 minutes from me, and many of the photo's in the Jim's SCOS&W are of guns belonging to another old friend who lives less then 4 miles from me.
I grew up shooting with him, and rented my first house from him.
Even those guys have been fooled more then once!
We even had one floating around here a couple of years ago that Roy Jinks looked at, and there was no consensus on whether it was a counterfeit or not!
It sold for some very big bucks at a national show with the understanding that the top three S&W experts in the country would not / could not authenticate it as a real one.
Some of them are really really good, but they ain't real M13's!
rcmodel
rcmodel - I'm confused (often am by things S&W) how a definative answer to an M13 couldn't be made. Could not Jinks, based on factory shipping ledgers and the serial number, letter the revolver you are talking about? If I were in the market for an Aircrewman I'd insist on a factory letter.
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XavierBreath
Member
A factory letter is good, but not definitive for a M-13 Aircrewman. Why you ask?
Unscrupulous fakers are resourceful. They know there are many demilled M-13s out there. They get an authentic M-13 serial number off a demilled gun, change the serial on a .38 M&P Airweight, and apply the topstrap and backstrap markings. Then they get the forgery with a felonious serial number lettered with an authentic Roy Jinks letter.
The surest way of knowing whether you have a real M-13 is whether it says "AIRCREWMAN" on the right side of the barrel with a smaller ".38 SPECIAL CTG" underneath. "SMITH & WESSON" is rollmarked on the left side of an Aircrewman barrel. These markings are extremely difficult to forge. Real Aircrewman barrels are as scarce as the complete revolvers. The gun rcmodel speaks of may have had a genuine Aircrewman barrel screwed into a M&P Airweight, and a felonious serial number swaperoo.
There are a couple of other indicators that I will not mention here. The best way to prevent getting snookered by a fake Aircrewman is to have someone who knows exactly what to look for examine the revolver. Bottom line: There are probably more fake Aircrewman revolvers on the market than real ones. Here is some more information and photos.
The Smith & Wesson M-13 Aircrewman
Here is a fake Aircrewman for sale and here is my take on it.
Unscrupulous fakers are resourceful. They know there are many demilled M-13s out there. They get an authentic M-13 serial number off a demilled gun, change the serial on a .38 M&P Airweight, and apply the topstrap and backstrap markings. Then they get the forgery with a felonious serial number lettered with an authentic Roy Jinks letter.
The surest way of knowing whether you have a real M-13 is whether it says "AIRCREWMAN" on the right side of the barrel with a smaller ".38 SPECIAL CTG" underneath. "SMITH & WESSON" is rollmarked on the left side of an Aircrewman barrel. These markings are extremely difficult to forge. Real Aircrewman barrels are as scarce as the complete revolvers. The gun rcmodel speaks of may have had a genuine Aircrewman barrel screwed into a M&P Airweight, and a felonious serial number swaperoo.
There are a couple of other indicators that I will not mention here. The best way to prevent getting snookered by a fake Aircrewman is to have someone who knows exactly what to look for examine the revolver. Bottom line: There are probably more fake Aircrewman revolvers on the market than real ones. Here is some more information and photos.
The Smith & Wesson M-13 Aircrewman
Here is a fake Aircrewman for sale and here is my take on it.
Thanks XB - I would not of thought of somone going to that effort, or of how they could change serial numbers on alloy, match finish, etc, but I guess crooks have always been very resourceful. The shame is that the people who produce these spurious guns so seldom get caught. I have a firend who got burned on a "Wells Fargo" shotgun, and I'm hearing that fake Navy markings are now being stamped onto unmarked Victorys. It would be nice to see some of these gun fakers held accountable now and then.
XavierBreath
Member
It would indeed Will. Among S&W collectors, it is considered normal practice to suspect any gun that passed through certain hands.
The problem with this particular serial number/M-13 challenge is the person who purchases is at risk for prosecution due to possession. The person who actually altered the serial number seems to be far down the list.
The problem with this particular serial number/M-13 challenge is the person who purchases is at risk for prosecution due to possession. The person who actually altered the serial number seems to be far down the list.
Some are. The FBI has created an antique fraud unit that looks into some of the outrageous cases. R.L. Wilson, who prior to his arrest was considered to be one of the world's leading authorities on Colt and Winchester, went for a stay in a federal lock-up after being involved in a case concerning a fake Walker Colt.
In the present instance, if someone was caught altering the serial number the BATF&E as well as some local law enforcers would have grounds to make an arrest. I have no idea if they would though.
I recently evaluated a Colt Sheriff Model Single Action for a potential buyer. It was, without question, as genuine as a three-dollar bill with my picture on it.
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
One would assume so, but.
There is some speculation that a few "lunch box guns" got away from S&W during the manufacture, return, replace cylinders, destroy them all phases.
It's very hard to spot a fake when the fakee was a S&W employee, using S&W tools, and S&W factory stamps, with a destroyed guns serial number at hand.
Back then, I doubt there was any intent to get rich off the deal.
Some folks probably just liked to tinker around on their lunch break!
rcmodel
Possible, but I have my doubts. They'd have to get the roll stamps, set them up, and also get the fixture(s) to hold the frame. All of this and go undetected. Maybe during the actual production of the guns, but less likely thereafter.
I suspect the few that survived were "liberated" from the Air Force before those remaining were called in for destruction.
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