LEO Off duty carry

[Jim K]

FWIW, I would not want a job that requires a "police" uniform but does not allow carrying a gun. You look like a cop and like a threat to an armed BG but you cannot do anything to stop him except squirt him with a gas spray if you get that close. If you miss, you are dead. I thank you folks who are willing to put up a spray can against a Glock, and I admire your courage, but count me out of that arms race.

Jim

 

[DaisyCutter]

My question to current/former LEOS, did your off duty carry change after you started? Handcuffs, spray, baton, body armor etc added or no change at all?

I'm an old detective.

I only wear the duty uniform when working at a ball game or church, etc.

Off-duty, as in street clothes, I don't carry any of the bat-belt stuff. Gun wise, I carry whatever I feel like for the day or season. I have a lot of guns.

Please, please don't let me see you wearing body armor off duty. It should have been explained in the DO academy, but people will recognize you, hate you, try to get you fired, and potentially attempt to harm you if they find out you are a cop (okay DO) off duty. And the street isn't a contained and controlled environment like in the jail, AND major AND, you don't have any field training.

As a cop, I literally would go "on the clock" the instant I take action off duty, and I get all the protection I would have as if I were on duty. A detention officer isn't the same.

Also, right now, stop flashing your DO badge around town. Sooner or later, it'll be a Hell's Angel or a parolee behind the counter that your asking for a police discount.

Blend in. Don't even wear your boots casually around town. I had a stand-up comedian call me out as a cop, front row, after he saw my boots. I yelled back that I was a dog catcher. He said, "#### you, I'm making the jokes tonight". There I was, first date with a tinder girl, and a whole room of drunk cop-hating jerks with prior DUIs seated behind me... Praying none of them wants to prove anything after the show or slash my tires.

Be invisible off duty. Nowadays with all the cop baiters welding video phones, you better be a chameleon.

If you wanted to wear your duty gear to the nightclub, then you should've been a firefighter instead of a detention officer.

;-)

 

[Jesse H]

I carry flex cuffs in my truck but none on my person, and never felt the need to. Handcuffing is one of the most dangerous things I do at work, sure as hell ain't gonna try it off-duty.

There was one occasion where I was leaving Walmart when I noticed loss prevention was chasing a guy. It wouldn't have been difficult to catch the guy from my position but I had my young daughter with me. So I just called dispatch, gave them his description and vehicle info for on duty guys.

Unless life and safety is at risk, the best option is not to get involved while off-duty. I carry to protect my family and self.

 

[herrwalther]

Please, please don't let me see you wearing body armor off duty. It should have been explained in the DO academy, but people will recognize you, hate you, try to get you fired, and potentially attempt to harm you if they find out you are a cop (okay DO) off duty. And the street isn't a contained and controlled environment like in the jail, AND major AND, you don't have any field training.

Any body armor I would potentially get (which I haven't and probably won't) would be underneath my street clothes. Some of our COs in the jail wear outer vests, one for very good personal reason. Only time I wear my uniform is to/from work, and any errands along the way. Like grab a couple groceries after a shift ends. And it is a wide stretch to say I don't have any field training.

Also, right now, stop flashing your DO badge around town. Sooner or later, it'll be a Hell's Angel or a parolee behind the counter that your asking for a police discount.

Not a problem since I don't consider myself "police" enough to ask for a discount. If I am going to try that route, I'll try for a military discount which is a rarity anyway.

FWIW, I would not want a job that requires a "police" uniform but does not allow carrying a gun. You look like a cop and like a threat to an armed BG but you cannot do anything to stop him except squirt him with a gas spray if you get that close. If you miss, you are dead. I thank you folks who are willing to put up a spray can against a Glock, and I admire your courage, but count me out of that arms race.

Not sure where you read that. Only place I don't carry a firearm is inside the jail. Outside that I am always armed, even in county government buildings.

Unless life and safety is at risk, the best option is not to get involved while off-duty. I carry to protect my family and self.

That is my intention and thought. I am not going to try and be super wannabe cop when off duty. I just want to get home in the event something happens. The primary point of this thread was to gauge if other law enforcement changed their carry equipment in or out of uniform while off duty. Namely out of uniform in the event that some parolee recognizes me from the job and wants to settle some score.

 

[golden]

Off duty, I carry my personally owned GLOCK 42 or when it is not available, I carry a WALTHER PPK, using my state issued CCW. I much prefer the GLOCK, which is easy to conceal and comfortable to carry all day, to my duty gun, an H&K P2000. The H&K is the only weapon that my agency permits us to carry off duty. Common sense is not a major requirement in federal agency management!

 

[481]

Most of my career was spent carrying the SigSauer P226 in 9mm. Big pistol; a bit difficult, but not impossible, to conceal.

Not wanting that sort of challenge these days, I find comfort in a nearly box-stock Glock 17 (only modification is a set of Trijicon night sights) which gives me a flat, easy-to-conceal option with the capacity of a full size service pistol loaded with Federal 9mm 147-grain +P HST JHPs.

 

[okiewita40]

When I was a c.o. I carried either a s&w .40 or a glock 19. But I was also a certified police officer. Actually a c.o. at the state is covered under leosa.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I'm not a cop I'm a security guard so the concept of "off duty" carry doesn't exist for me but there were a few items in this thread that stood out for me.

I don't go anywhere in in uniform except straight to work and straight home from work. I don't even stop for gas. My uniform is only different from the local PD by shade of color and I do not want to be mistaken for a cop or a cop impersonator. When I'm off the clock I wear nothing that is any part of my duty uniform except the shoes occasionally.

I do not carry pepper spray because I don't want to have to justify why I chose to use deadly force when I had a non lethal option. It's also just one more PITA thing to carry on my belt.

FWIW I carry a Glock 19 off the clock and that wouldn't change regardless of what I carry at work.

 

[herrwalther]

I don't go anywhere in in uniform except straight to work and straight home from work. I don't even stop for gas. My uniform is only different from the local PD by shade of color and I do not want to be mistaken for a cop or a cop impersonator. When I'm off the clock I wear nothing that is any part of my duty uniform except the shoes occasionally.

My uniform looks like a casual police/detective outfit. Black polo shirt with shield. Khaki color tactical pants. So I am sure I have been mistaken for real police by somebody. Which is why my stops to and from work are severely limited and necessary. I make gas stops and short grocery trips. I would not go to my local gun store in uniform trying to score a discount or anything foolish like that.

I do not carry pepper spray because I don't want to have to justify why I chose to use deadly force when I had a non lethal option. It's also just one more PITA thing to carry on my belt.

That is a good point. Before I started my job as a CO, I only carried pepper spray to deter wild dogs. There are a ton in my area. I had little thought to using it on a person unless absolutely necessary. Even now I only routinely carry it as it is just another thing to stuff in a pocket or somewhere else. I found a nice holster that carries a spare magazine and pepper spray. I haven't made the decision of how much use it would actually get to warrant buying it.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

My uniform looks like a casual police/detective outfit. Black polo shirt with shield. Khaki color tactical pants.

That's exactly what the El Paso County Sheriff detectives wear. I used to work for a company that had us in the same uniform with a Royal Blue Polo. That one wasn't so bad because I could cover it up with a Dickies work shirt.

 

[Choctaw]

Daisy Cutter nailed it for me. I've been in a very long time. When I worked patrol I couldn't wait to get home and take off all of the gear necessary to modern-day policing. I've been in plainclothes for years and still can't wait to shuck the pistol, badge, mags and cuffs. If I'm out and about while off duty I have my pistol and badge. I'm just that, off duty. If there is a incident occurring that may be life threatening or could result in bodily injury, I step in. Otherwise, I'm a witness for patrol once they arrive. Some guys live for this job 24/7. They are also the ones who burn out or get to write the ever so fun "Dear Chief" letters. Learn to be invisible. People don't need to know you are in law enforcement.

Also, when I wore the uniform I always had a long sleeve shirt over it while driving to and from work. Unwanted attention is a bad thing especially today when not only do you have to be great at what you do but photogenic as well.

 

[GRIZ22]

I'm not a cop I'm a security guard so the concept of "off duty" carry doesn't exist for me but there were a few items in this thread that stood out for me.

I don't go anywhere in in uniform except straight to work and straight home from work. I don't even stop for gas. My uniform is only different from the local PD by shade of color and I do not want to be mistaken for a cop or a cop impersonator. When I'm off the clock I wear nothing that is any part of my duty uniform except the shoes occasionally.

I do not carry pepper spray because I don't want to have to justify why I chose to use deadly force when I had a non lethal option. It's also just one more PITA thing to carry on my belt.

FWIW I carry a Glock 19 off the clock and that wouldn't change regardless of what I carry at work.

I would rethink not carrying pepper spray. Pepper spray is less than lethal. You are more likely to encounter a confrontation requiring less than lethal force than one requiring lethal force. A bad guy with a 2x4, baseball bat, knife, tire iron, or firearm needs to be met with lethal force not pepper spray.

Unless you enjoy rolling around in the mud and the blood and the beer I'd carry pepper spray.

 

[Jesse H]

Disagree.

If the situation "warrants" pepper spray or any other form of less lethal, and you're off-duty....then it's best to remain off-duty.

 

[OC-Trainer]

I would rethink not carrying pepper spray. Pepper spray is less than lethal. You are more likely to encounter a confrontation requiring less than lethal force than one requiring lethal force. A bad guy with a 2x4, baseball bat, knife, tire iron, or firearm needs to be met with lethal force not pepper spray.

Unless you enjoy rolling around in the mud and the blood and the beer I'd carry pepper spray.

I agree with you, Griz. However, he has stated before that he has "absolutely no faith in OC spray's effectiveness as a defensive weapon."
That he was sprayed before and claims it had essential no effect on him. So that also may have something to do with it.

 

[GRIZ22]

I agree with you, Griz. However, he has stated before that he has "absolutely no faith in OC spray's effectiveness as a defensive weapon."
That he was sprayed before and claims it had essential no effect on him. So that also may have something to do with it.

So if the OC doesn't work you're back to hand to hand. You can't use your firearm if you're not threatened with lethal force. OC should not be used if you are. I really don't understand the rationale of using a non-lethal option for dealing with deadly force. If someone is shooting at you, trying to knock your head in with a pipe, or trying to stab you shooting them makes sense. Not only to me but just about every law written on self defense.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I would rethink not carrying pepper spray. Pepper spray is less than lethal. You are more likely to encounter a confrontation requiring less than lethal force than one requiring lethal force. A bad guy with a 2x4, baseball bat, knife, tire iron, or firearm needs to be met with lethal force not pepper spray.

Unless you enjoy rolling around in the mud and the blood and the beer I'd carry pepper spray.

So first of all I avoid places where I'm likely to be rolling in mud, blood and beer. I haven't thrown a punch (outside of the Dojo) in 30 years. Second I'm 51 years old, I'm too old to fight some random stranger who wants to go hands on with me. If someone physically attacks me I would have to respond as if my life was in danger.

 

[herrwalther]

I agree with you, Griz. However, he has stated before that he has "absolutely no faith in OC spray's effectiveness as a defensive weapon."
That he was sprayed before and claims it had essential no effect on him. So that also may have something to do with it.

Who said this? Not sure where you are pulling this from.

I mostly wear carpenter jeans. So a small bottle of spray fits nicely in the screwdriver pocket along the outside of the right leg. If I make the decision to carry it more regularly as part of my EDC, I would find a better spot for it.

 

[Gordon]

I'm an old detective.

I only wear the duty uniform when working at a ball game or church, etc.

Off-duty, as in street clothes, I don't carry any of the bat-belt stuff. Gun wise, I carry whatever I feel like for the day or season. I have a lot of guns.

Please, please don't let me see you wearing body armor off duty. It should have been explained in the DO academy, but people will recognize you, hate you, try to get you fired, and potentially attempt to harm you if they find out you are a cop (okay DO) off duty. And the street isn't a contained and controlled environment like in the jail, AND major AND, you don't have any field training.

As a cop, I literally would go "on the clock" the instant I take action off duty, and I get all the protection I would have as if I were on duty. A detention officer isn't the same.

Also, right now, stop flashing your DO badge around town. Sooner or later, it'll be a Hell's Angel or a parolee behind the counter that your asking for a police discount.

Blend in. Don't even wear your boots casually around town. I had a stand-up comedian call me out as a cop, front row, after he saw my boots. I yelled back that I was a dog catcher. He said, "#### you, I'm making the jokes tonight". There I was, first date with a tinder girl, and a whole room of drunk cop-hating jerks with prior DUIs seated behind me... Praying none of them wants to prove anything after the show or slash my tires.

Be invisible off duty. Nowadays with all the cop baiters welding video phones, you better be a chameleon.

If you wanted to wear your duty gear to the nightclub, then you should've been a firefighter instead of a detention officer.

;-)

This is priceless wisdom here

 

[OC-Trainer]

Who said this? Not sure where you are pulling this from.

I mostly wear carpenter jeans. So a small bottle of spray fits nicely in the screwdriver pocket along the outside of the right leg. If I make the decision to carry it more regularly as part of my EDC, I would find a better spot for it.

Griz was suggesting that Trunk Monkey should rethink carrying OC spray. My comment was based on TM's previous statements here:

I lost all faith in pepper spray the day I got certified to carry it. The trainer sprayed me, I ran right at him, grabbed him, and put him on his ***
I was not incapacitated in any meaningful way by Saber Red. I have absolutely no faith in OC spray's effectiveness as a defensive weapon.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/carry-all-the-time.821007/page-3#post-10543383

 

[GRIZ22]

So first of all I avoid places where I'm likely to be rolling in mud, blood and beer. I haven't thrown a punch (outside of the Dojo) in 30 years. Second I'm 51 years old, I'm too old to fight some random stranger who wants to go hands on with me. If someone physically attacks me I would have to respond as if my life was in danger.

Taking the attitude you must respond as if your life is in danger to any physical attack will no doubt get you in trobule. Most physical attacks are not life threatening. If someone shoves you to the ground are you going to shoot them?

One needs to consider intermediate levels of force if you are serious about self defense. It's been said if you see every problem like a nail your solution is a hammer. If you see every SD encounter as your life is in danger your solution is deadly force. It is an attitude that will get you in trobule with the law.

OC spray isn't 100% effective true. What is it? 90%, 70%, 50%? Even at 50% that means half the times you use it you'll avoid escalating your force. I want to be clear, if you're threatened with deadly force no need to use an intermediate step.

 

[paulsj]

Deadly force can only be used as very last resort. Pepper spray and stun gun are good options. I would think fully loaded G18 magazine would make nice mini club.

 

[Kman314]

I agree , but that would make me a criminal .

Like others have said, check your local laws. In Kentucky, as long as you are not in a prohibited place such as a police station, jail, courthouse, federal property, etc., that sign does not have the force of law. If you are caught with a firearm there, they simply ask you to leave. If you leave, no problem.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Taking the attitude you must respond as if your life is in danger to any physical attack will no doubt get you in trobule. Most physical attacks are not life threatening. If someone shoves you to the ground are you going to shoot them?

One needs to consider intermediate levels of force if you are serious about self defense. It's been said if you see every problem like a nail your solution is a hammer. If you see every SD encounter as your life is in danger your solution is deadly force. It is an attitude that will get you in trobule with the law.

OC spray isn't 100% effective true. What is it? 90%, 70%, 50%? Even at 50% that means half the times you use it you'll avoid escalating your force. I want to be clear, if you're threatened with deadly force no need to use an intermediate step.

Ok so let me say again that I haven't been in a fight in 30(ish) years. Why am I sticking around while any altercation escalates to the point that someone have shoved me to the ground? What are they going to do when I'm on the ground? This isn't the 50s now when people know you down they kick you in the head.

Again, if you physically attack me I'm going to respond as though my life is being threatened especially if you knock me to the ground. ETA especially since if I'm on my ass you've already overcome my non lethal attempts to defend myself

 

[GRIZ22]

Ok so let me say again that I haven't been in a fight in 30(ish) years. Why am I sticking around while any altercation escalates to the point that someone have shoved me to the ground? What are they going to do when I'm on the ground? This isn't the 50s now when people know you down they kick you in the head.

Again, if you physically attack me I'm going to respond as though my life is being threatened especially if you knock me to the ground. ETA especially since if I'm on my ass you've already overcome my non lethal attempts to defend myself

Okay, hope you stay out of trobule.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Okay, hope you stay out of trobule.

Kinda curious, what kind of lifestyle are you living in which a minor altercation escalates into a shoving match that puts you on the ground?

Random person starts talking smack to me at Walmart, the first words out of my mouth are " You're absolutely right sir. I am totally in the wrong here. Please forgive me. Good day." Has yet to fail.