LEOs on CCW

Status
Not open for further replies.
O

OpFlash

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
226
Location
Wake Co. NC
My son got in an argument with his liberal English teacher today who told him policemen are against civilians carrying (or even having) guns because it puts them in danger. From what I have heard it is my impression that the typical LEO is for CCW but some of the higher ups who run the departments are not for political reasons.

Is there some way to establish this as truth? Somewhere it is documented that LEOs as a majority are OK with CCW? Also, what are the political reasons a Chief or head of a department would be against CCW?

Thanks!
 
I would venture to say that most LEO's are against it for no other reason their own personal safety.
Remember, just because they have guns doesn't mean they are gun nuts and pro RKBA.

LEO's are still human, and most studies of home owners show about a 50/50 split on pro and anti....with less pro in the city and less anti in the rural areas.
 
Several years ago a law enforcement technology magazine we got at work did a survey. They found that 75% of cops either simply didn't mind people having guns or actively thought most gun laws were a waste of time & energy. What I thought most interesting was the the 25% who wanted more and more restrictive laws were primarily brass.

I think it's gotten a bit worse with some agencies because they trainees are basically taught they sit at God's right hand and give him advise, and one of the side effects of the attitude is that nobody but them should be able to carry guns.

I don't have any particular study info available, I'm sure it's available. Might try smallestminority.blogspot.com or geekwitha45.blogspot.com and search.
 
The LEOs i've known (Local PD, Deputies, and State Troopers) all were in favor of CCW.

In fact, I used to do "unofficial" ride alongs with a State Trooper friend of mine (long since retired) and he insisted I carry - just in case something happened.

Warren
 
Ex-LEO here. I found no such attitude. May be a function of location. People here have been carrying for generations so its just part of the terrain here.

As well, there is a part of a LEO, which no active duty member will talk about, that inwardly cheers when a good guy waxes a bad guy. It represents the presence of cosmic justice that often eludes the street officer.

Reasons that policicrats are against serfs being armed are twofold: elitism ("Gadzooks, vile serf, how darest thou be armed in by noble presence? I am Lord of the Manor and, vile fiend, have solely been blessed by God to carry arms!") and being against armed serfs is a cheap and easy way to show that the policicrat is doing "something" to make "our streets and children safer" which will help him retain his position.
 
You may PM me for some personal contact information if this teacher needs proof that this 'anti-ccw' attitude is not present among all police officers. All 5 officers in my small dept are good with ccw.
 
The FFL that handles my internet purchases is LEO and recently was promoted to SWAT, obviously he has no issues with my CHL and it saves him a phone call everytime!

--wally.
 
I just want to know if I person I'm in contact is armed, or if there is one in the vehicle (as per FSS).. I encourage CCW... I have taken the firearm while taking the report of whatever then returned it when I am about to leave but only in certain circumstances...
 
It really shouldn't matter what LEOs think about CCW - they are not our masters (might be a news flash to some). A badge (though respected) doesn't make their vote count for more than anyone else's.

And if some or all LEOs think that legal CCW is a hazard to them - well, then - somebody should advise them that criminals on occasion break the law. :rolleyes: :p
 
my CHL instructor

was a Ft. Worth Detective with about 20 years with the force.

Guys who helped him on the range qualification portion were fellow officers working on a Sunday to get the class done.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:
God Bless Texas.
 
It really shouldn't matter what LEOs think about CCW - they are not our masters (might be a news flash to some). A badge (though respected) doesn't make their vote count for more than anyone else's.

And if some or all LEOs think that legal CCW is a hazard to them - well, then - somebody should advise them that criminals on occasion break the law.
Click to expand...

Can't add much to that......perfect. +1
 
It's not the job of the police to protect you. If by some chance they can make it to your house after you dial 911, great, but no one should believe police guarantee your safety. The only guarantee of you and your family's safety is to be armed.


The whole reason I started carrying is a friend who is an LEO told me I was totally foolish and naive if I didn't carry in this day and age.
 
The opinions of LEOs on CCW are as diverse as the opinions of people in the population they serve. They vary from rabidly anti to rabidly pro RKBA. As a very general rule, they are probably more pro than the population as a whole, due to greater experience with/exposure to guns, but that is only a very general trend, and likely not true in large urban areas, where the only people they see with guns are either cops or criminals.

Mike
 
Im an LEO in Alabama and i can tell you im all for it. The police cant be everywhere. My wife is not anti gun but she has no interest in carrying a firearm. If she is out and something bad happens i hope there is someone who will be armed and step in if neccesary. Look at all these shooings where a gunman walked into a public place and opened fire. How many could be ended if a person with a CCW was present. I just want them to have some sense. I mean be aware that police responding to such an incident wont know who is who. Dont assume an LEO knows you are a good guy and go waving the gun around when they get on scene.
 
Tell teacher that a large number of LEO are not against it, in that in most states CCW permit holders have already been fingerprinted, background checked and mug-shot info all on file, and as such the local issuing agency knows that they are not "bad guys", in fact, you could call CCW's certified good guys considering all the hoops they must jump through in order to possess such a license.

Or not. Some teachers may not want to hear such blasphemic thought.
 
Someone very close to me is PD for a large metro area. I've had many conversations on this issue.

In general, it seems that most cops are into guns... even in this metro area. I see lots of cops at the local range and I consider a couple of them friends... so a lot of them know 'about' guns. Another thing is that the cops, at least here, really have NO idea what the CCW laws are. They don't need to apply for permits, never have so they don't know.

Now, I speculate that part of this is because, as CCW holders, they just don't deal with us very often... we just don't get in trouble enough that they have the laws memorized like they do with traffic stops, DV or drugs. So... I chalk their lack of knowledge on the laws to the fact that we are good people us CCW'ers :) Probably 5% of cops, in my personal opinion are ego driven alpha males with a superiority complex... but that still leaves 95% good people.

All the cops I have talked to are all for legal CCW... providing you know what you are doing and not some 21 year old hood that just doesn't have a conviction yet. I have heard about "training" and such which isn't a requirement where I live, and I don't think it should be, so on that point I strongly disagree.

My final thought and observation from many conversations with cops is that IF you ever do use your CCW, or defend yourself at home that they are definitely on your side, providing you weren't doing something stupid like shooting in the air after you got in a fistfight. They're not going to bias their reports against you and will most likely take your side if anything ever does go to court. They most certainly don't mind if someone else does their work for them... especially considering that in some states we, as CCW'ers have more rights regarding civil lawsuits than they do.
 
buck00 said:
It's not the job of the police to protect you. If by some chance they can make it to your house after you dial 911, great, but no one should believe police guarantee your safety. The only guarantee of you and your family's safety is to be armed.

The whole reason I started carrying is a friend who is an LEO told me I was totally foolish and naive if I didn't carry in this day and age.
Click to expand...

+1

I've had several conversations with the local PD and Sherif Deputys... why you may ask? They're all ways in my Apt Complex, being that it's getting a bit gheto around here! I've actually been told to break the law... and been told, "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6", from Uniformed Officers. The Peoples Republic of Communist California isn't too generous on the CCW permits or I'd have one, and PRCK doesn't honor my out of state CCW.
 
OpFlash said:
My son got in an argument with his liberal English teacher today who told him policemen are against civilians carrying (or even having) guns because it puts them in danger.
Click to expand...
As others have said, results vary. When I lived in Maryland, there seemed an overall attitude that the private citizen had no NEED to carry a gun for protection. However, it wasn't all bad in Maryland.

Some of us NRA instructors would teach Personal Protection up at the Howard County Fairground, and one of the cops who did the police portion of the class was a Howard County Deputy. He rather subtly stated the most important trait in carrying a concealed gun for protection, perhaps even more important than having a license to carry (and remember this is Maryland, not some danged Shall Issue state), was a willingness and a preparedness to use force if necessary.

Here in Washington, and in Pennsylvania, and in North Carolina (even though I'm a Yankee), and even in Miami, Florida, the attitude of cops towards the citizenry with guns ranged from neutral to supportive of an armed citizenry.

Former King County (Washington) Sheriff, now Congressman Dave Reichert, was and remains very supportive of gunowners rights--including CCW. Current King County Sheriff Sue Rahr was considered the most pro-gun of the candidates running in last years race, and I think she's rock solid in support of gunowners and CCW.

When I served on Jury Duty in September, I carried to court--which is legal in Washington state. Deputies working weapon check were all very courteous and professional.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=222335&highlight=court

In Pennsylvania, when a hooker/drug-dealer/drug-buyer knocked on my door asking to use the phone a little after midnight, I called 9-1-1 and in the conversation I told 'em I was armed. Cops responded, and me having a gun (which I had on me but concealed when I went out to talk with the cops) wasn't even remotely a problem.

I've taken FAS-2, 3, 4 and 5 at the Firearms Academy of Seattle, plus Handgun Retention and Knife/Counterknife, and Jim Cirillo's class. Except for FAS-5, there were cops in every class. Gave me a chance to pick brains a bit about CCW. Never heard an ill word about CCW.
http://www.firearmsacademy.com/

The FBI UCR publication Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted (or LEOKA) contains a dizzying amount of information on cops killed and assaulted every year. Law abiding citizens with guns are not the problem.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#leoka

Finally, OpFlash, allow me to suggest that you have your son turn the matter around on his English teacher. Ask on what basis the teacher can assert that cops are against CCW. There were nearly 800K sworn law enforcement officers in 2000, and there are likely more than 800K today in 2006.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/lawenf.htm#summary

Has the teacher performed any sort of survey which could remotely be considered a representative sampling collected randomly? If not, is the teacher in possession of a study conducted on the subject? If not, then it would seem this is merely a hearsay assertion with no factual basis in reality.
 
I like KenGrubb's idea about turning the argument around on the teacher.

The teacher will probably pull out quite a few LE associations. Chiefs of Police type ones.

However in my area I spoke with a few cops around here in Northern IL about their beliefs in CCW. The majority of them were against it. I am sure there are a few who would support it but all the officers I have talked to about it, save two, were against the idea. They felt that people should just call the police and that having a gun will only make the situation worse.

This is however in one of Chicagos suburbs.

I believe personally that it is a regional issue. When I spoke to the cops down in Southern IL where I went to school, they were all very supportive. They didnt care what law abiding people do in their spare time just that they were safe and stayed law abiding.

So I would have to say it really depends on the region and their views on guns. I suspect that in cities where you find strict gun control laws and you will find little to no support for non-LEO CCW. But there will be a few in the bunch who do support your right to carry. And there will be those who dont support your right to carry. I think it is more of a regional thing and that is really all it will be.
 
With rank and file LE's, the CCW issue is to them what it is to most of us permitted non-LE's, that is, an issue of practical defense for private citizens (which LE's support) and the 2nd Amendment issue (I certainly HOPE that LE's support that). Plus I really feel that only a very small percentage of street cops somehow feel that we legal CCW'ers are a threat to them, and in fact, I even wonder if they relax a bit when they see our permits because they know we don't have a "history" and therefore have no reason to harm them (maybe that's just in my head?).

When it comes to the Police Chiefs, it all comes down to politics because it's mostly politics that got them their job. Furthermore, since Police Chiefs are mostly appointed, then they are going to toe the line of who appointed them, not the general population.

That's my take on why street cops are with us on CCW but police management are generally against us.

Carter
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

E
  • Locked
Legalities of Carrying at Schools in the PRK.
Replies
8
Views
482
Rumpled
R
P
  • Locked
LEO's .. your take on us CCW's.
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
furetto7
F
A
  • Locked
Why are they still fighting against CCW?
2
Replies
38
Views
1K
Standing Wolf
S
O
  • Locked
CCW permit "hopefuls"
Replies
12
Views
667
AirForceShooter
AirForceShooter
M
  • Locked
Lowell Mass : Detailed Essay and $1,100 Course now required for CCW
Replies
18
Views
2K
Frank Ettin
Frank Ettin
Back
Top