LEOs on CCW

[TexasRifleman]

Interesting that the Texas Highway Patrol is 100% behind the Texas CHL program, and they are the adminstrators.

The head of the HP has been quoted publicly many times that his officers feel an instant comfort level when presented the CHL ID card during a traffic stop.

I can personally attest to this fact, and I have not received anything but a smile and maybe the occasional warning to slow down on my several times a month road trip between Ft Worth and Austin.

As mentioned, the only places you see cops taking this attitude are places where the rest of the government has already. Chicago, NYC, LA; you could not keep a job if you supported carrying by the general public, since the masters of those cities do not.

When left to their own, LEOs get it.

One of the most vocal opponents of the CHL movement in Texas was a PD Chief from a southern city ( I forget which one) who predicted the usual bloow flowing in the streets etc.

On the one year anniversary of the CHL program he publicly apologized and stated that his mind had been changed completely and he's now a huge supporter.

It's all politics folks, in case you didn't notice.

 

[armoredman]

Hit him with the 800K officers, and when he pulls something from FOP or Chiefs of Police, ask him why the National Association of Chiefs of Police, in the 17th Annual National Survey of Police Chiefs and Sherrifs in 2005, found that 66% of police chiefs thought citizens carrying concealed firearms reduces rates of violent crime.
Factoid courtesy of gunfacts.

 

[outofbattery]

Contrary to what even many people on here think about Federal law enforcement, _every single_ DEA and ICE agent I know is in favor of RKBA.Certainly there are elitists and antis but a great many LEO's are absolutely in favor of Americans lawfully owning and carrying firearms.

Most cops actually are smart enough to know that people who aren't commiting crimes ain't the problem!

 

[stevelyn]

When Alaska went permitless carry no one in LE that I'm aware of came out opposed to it.

 

[ron8903]

I'm in favor of ccw,and often suggest
people to apply.

 

[Helmetcase]

Flip it back on the teacher--make him/her support their contention that rank and file officers actually don't support CCW.

I'm not aware of any poll, study, or survey that shows that to be the case. When cornered on this, antis typically point to the brass--they don't seem to realize that the brass are far removed from the day to day job, and are often beholden to the politicians at whose pleasure they serve.

A rank and file cop can be pro-CCW, and no politician in the world can fire him for saying so.

The police commissioner doesn't have that luxury.

 

[sefus]

When I first got my CCW I got yelled at by a cop for not having one in the chamber.

 

[mzmtg]

My father-in-law is a former LEO. He's very pro-CCW.

 

[thexrayboy]

Ask your teacher for evidence to support his theory. Hard factual evidence that makes his statement worthy of note. Evidence and statistics that can
stand up to hard scrutiny. If he cannot he is just spouting an opinion, or worse yet pushing a personal agenda.

 

[Robert Hairless]

2005 Survey of National Association of Chiefs of Police

There's no need for anecdotal evidence. According to the 2005 survey taken by The National Association of Chiefs of Police, 92.4% of police chiefs and sheriffs believe that any law abiding citizen should be able to purchase a firearm for sport or self-defense. 59.9% also favor a national concealed weapons permit and believe that it would reduce rates of violent crime. (Keep in mind that the question asks about a national permit. Elsewhere the chiefs and sheriffs have been reported to favor the present system of permits issued by the individual states.)

Print out the survey so your son can show it to that English professor and ask for an explanation of why the chiefs and sheriffs might not know what they think. 22,587 chiefs and sheriffs responded to that survey. It's an annual survey and the results have been reasonably consistent every year since these questions first appeared on the survey. The 2005 survey is the latest, so far as I know, and the responses to these questions are not flukes.

Perhaps your son might ask the English professor whether he believes that secondary sources (such as the Brady Campaign) are preferable to primary sources (such as this survey) in research. That professor might not know how to do basic scholarly research, in which case his Department chair and Dean need to be involved.

 

[DRMMR02]

It really shouldn't matter what LEOs think about CCW - they are not our masters (might be a news flash to some). A badge (though respected) doesn't make their vote count for more than anyone else's.

And if some or all LEOs think that legal CCW is a hazard to them - well, then - somebody should advise them that criminals on occasion break the law.

That really has nothing to do with the question. The OP is planning on talking to a teacher using what LEOs think as evidence. So to him, it does matter what they think, that's the whole point. You should take your "us vs. them" arguments elsewhere.

 

[ProguninTN]

LEO's and Guns

I suppose in an anti-gun area, the LE may be against citizens with weapons. I attribute that to the "superiority complex" or the fact that many of these officers did not touch a gun for the first time until they were in the Academy. (and therefore no else should)

OTOH, LEO's I have talked to are supportive. In fact, they denounced "political bigwhigs" who speak badly of ciitizens with guns and act like they speak for everybody when they do. One even even referenced the often used (and true) mantra "Sen Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than citizens' guns".

 

[cbsbyte]

My personal experience is that many Police officers, if not a majority, in the Mass are Pro civilian gun ownership, though many have reservations about CCW. There is only a small vocal minority from urban areas that don't want civilians carrying concealed firearms. In the town I live in the only LTC they give out is a Class A "All Lawful Purposes" which permits CCW. When I went it to renew it in a new town the officer was friendly, and so was another officer that happend to be in the same room. I would guess that they are fine with CCW, as long as the applicant passes the background & mental illness check. I forgot to mention that, when I went to apply from my first LTC ALP license five years ago the officer that did the paper work(now its done on computer), showed me his Sig P229 off duty carry piece, without me even asking. He explained the function, and how he carried it. Though he is probably is in the minority he seem to really want me to carry.

 

[TallPine]

That really has nothing to do with the question. The OP is planning on talking to a teacher using what LEOs think as evidence. So to him, it does matter what they think, that's the whole point. You should take your "us vs. them" arguments elsewhere.

It has everything to do with the question - there is no point in trying to prove an irrelevant argument. (sort of like wrestling with a pig)

Suppose 65% of LEOs support the current war in Iraq ... does that mean that the war is justified, or not...?

Suppose 52% of LEOs think abortion should be illegal ... etc etc etc ....

So to him, it does matter what they think, that's the whole point.

So - convince him that it shouldn't matter what they think

 

[noops]

Even some of the "liberals"

There is a vocal minority who don't because they are liberals

I live in a "liberal" town in Oregon, and the Sheriff had my CCW to me in 8 days (required to have it done in 45). Not all of us "liberals" are all that bad.

Now I admit (and my wife would certainly support this) that I may be retarded occasionally, but liberal? It's got a good ring to it.

Noops

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Do you believe gun control laws do not stop crimes involving guns because such laws are directed toward the law abiding citizen, rather than those who operate outside the law?
92.5% replied YES

Do you believe gun ownership is a symbol of independence, self-reliance, and responsibility in America?
88% replied YES

Do you believe legal gun owners pride themselves on education, training and responsibility in America?
83.5% replied YES

Do you believe laws made to limit gun ownership by law abiding citizens will result in criminals still obtaining guns, while citizens will be unable to do so lawfully?
92.3% replied YES

Do you believe laws having the effect of limiting gun ownership by law abiding citizens will make it more difficult for criminals to get guns?
89.4% replied NO

Do you believe the best way to reduce the number of crimes committed with a firearm is to enforce existing laws more strictly?
92.9% replied YES

Do you believe the best way to reduce the number of crimes committed with a firearm is to pass stricter gun control laws?
76.5% replied NO

Article VII, Amendment II of the U.S. Constitution provides that "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Do you believe this means that all law abiding citizens in America have a constitutional right to gun ownership?
91% replied YES

"Assault Weapons" now being considered for severe restrictions, or even bans, are semi-automatic firearms, and are not "machine guns". Do you believe they should be regulated any more stringently than handguns or shotguns?
68.5% replied NO

Do you believe "assault rifles" serve no useful purpose and should be banned from ownership by private citizens?
73.9% replied NO

Do you believe crime rates are lower in states with few gun control laws because criminals do not want to risk confronting an armed citizen?
78.6% replied YES

Do you believe armed citizens will not stop crimes from being committed?
55.7% replied NO

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Source

An educational project, sponsored jointly by the police Benevolent Association of Georgia, (PBA/GA), and the Georgia Sport Shooting Association (GSSA), has revealed the following responses to the issues of gun control, gun ownership, the Second Amendment, semi-automatic firearms and crime.

The tabulations are in response to a survey mailed out to more than 3,000 sworn law enforcement members, with the results tabulated by a professional polling organization based in Tallahassee, Florida, during July and August, 1989.

http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/firearms/politics/pba_ga.html

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Southern States Police Survey Shows Gun Rights Support
In 1993 the UPI reported the results of a survey on gun control by the Southern States Police Benevolent Association.

As UPI reported:

95.8 percent of the 10,614 members of the ten-state law enforcement organization surveyed rejected a ban on all firearms, 96.4 percent strongly supported firearm ownership for self-protection and 90.1 percent agreed that the U.S. Constitution guarantees law-abiding citizens the right to own a firearm.

Only 34.7 percent said stricter gun control laws were an effective way of controlling violent crime.

The survey showed little support for a Brady Bill-type waiting period for the purchase of handguns -- 86.5 percent said it would only affect law-abiding citizens and not deter criminals from obtaining handguns.

An instant point-of-purchase criminal background check prior to the purchase of handguns drew 63.8 percent support, while only 23.1 percent supported a waiting period before the purchase of a handgun.
http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/firearms/politics/pba_ss.html

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Police Magazine

Police Magazine Survey
Police: The Law Officers Magazine published an informal questionnaire on gun control in November 1992. In April 1993, the magazine reported the results. Three hundred readers participated in the informal survey.

The results:

Do you support the Brady Bill, including a waiting period and background check before a handgun can be sold?
23% Yes, 77% No

Do you support any assault weapons bill that would ban importation and U.S. manufacture of specific semiautomatic assault weapons?
15% Yes, 85% No

Does gun ownership by citizens increase public safety?
85% Yes, 15% No

Does gun ownership by citizens decrease public safety?
10% Yes, 90% No

Does gun ownership by citizens negatively affect your job?
10% Yes, 90% No

Should training or certification of gun owners be required by law?
48% Yes, 52% No

http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/firearms/politics/police.html

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

American Survey

August 1989, from Gun Week:

In a study conducted by the National Association of the Chiefs of Police (NACP) through its American Law Enforcement Survey for 1989, in which 16,259 chiefs of police, sheriffs and law-enforcement command personnel were polled with a list of 30 questions, it was determined the overwhelming majority of officers support the right of private arms ownership, and agreed that gun bans had little effect on crime. The Citizens' Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA) compiled the following responses:

Do you believe that law-abiding citizens should have the right to purchase any type of firearm for sport or self-defense under state laws that now exist?
68.71% answered YES.

Do you believe that the banning of firearms (handguns, shotguns, or rifles) will reduce the ability of criminals to obtain such weapons?
90.18% answered NO.

Do you believe that the banning of private ownership of firearms will result in fewer crimes from firearms?
87.62% answered NO.

Would you agree that most criminals obtain their weapons illegally?
89.94% answered YES.

Do you believe that a waiting period to purchase a handgun or any type of firearm will have any effect on criminals getting firearms?
70.91% answered NO.

A "military type" of long gun (Rifle, shotgun, etc.) is now being described as one being able to hold more than five rounds of ammunition. It must be fired by pulling the trigger each time. The legal description would cover many semi-automatic weapons. Do you believe that banning such weapons would reduce the likelihood of criminals obtaining such weapons?
86.73% answered NO.

Some states have longer waiting periods than others. Would you agree that it should be a state mandated law rather than a federal regulation as to firearms purchase requirements?
62.64% answered STATE.

Do you favor the training and issuance of semi-automatic firearms (sidearms) that carry 16-17 rounds over the present police revolver?
85% answered YES.

Historically, the militia is "all men between the ages of 16 and 45". Under the present armed forces defense of the United States, the National Guard must be able to mobilize in three days to back up our regular armed forces worldwide. Therefore, the only defense would be the "state militia" in time of war. Would you agree, that for the sake of the defense of the United States, citizens should be allowed to have their own rifles, shotguns and handguns for emergencies, natural or man made?
85.69% answered YES.

Do you feel that the system of criminal justice has broken down to the point where it is the inability to deal with criminals caught by police (prosecution and imprisonment) that is the major cause of crime in America?
86.46% answered YES.

Do you think the courts are soft on criminals in general?
95.60% answered YES.

Do you believe the media coverage of police-involved shootings encourages the riots or disturbances that have often followed publication or televised?
90.12% answered YES.

Do you think that the media that depicts violence, especially on TV, while at the same time encouraging the banning of firearms ownership for law-abiding citizens for sport or self-defense, is hypocritical?
89.95% answered YES.

For copies, interested parties may contact CCRKBA, 12500 N.E. 10th Place, Bellvue, WA 98005. It includes the other questions.

http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/firearms/politics/ales.html

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

The Trend

As you can see from the 2005 survey someone else posted above, police are beginning to favor, more and more, armed citizens. The reason is the prevalence of concealed carry laws that did not exist when the earlier surveys were taken. With experience, the police have learned first hand that the sky is not falling.

 

[Zach S]

Location is probably a factor, but in my experiance, most LEOs dont seem to care about CCW. In several traffic stops, two disabled vehicles, and a few other non-traffic, yet police related interactions I've had, I've been disarmed twice. One was a trooper, he didnt really disarm me, he just asked me to step out and stand behind my car (this was before I had my CHP, and my pistol was laying in my seat).

The other was a small town cop who was just a - well, the rest of that sentance is pretty low road.