Lessons learned from being on either side of the guiding profession.

[ZeroJunk]

I have had a lot of clients that "didn't care" right up until the last hour of the last day

Well, I just don't care for the whole guided hunt concept really. If I need some guide to lead me up to something to shoot I would rather not. I would rather get skunked on my own.

Now, if he can tell me you need to hunt this area this way and then go cut wood or something, I can deal with that.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

On a Wyoming hunt, the guides way of hunting pronghorn was racing up and down and over hill and dale chasing them.

This was how my cousin and I hunted pronghorn in our younger days. While it's a lot of fun, we had more quality hunts (not to mention much better meat) later on when we would spot a goat, leave the area, and come back on foot to stalk.

My cousin Terry either owned, leased, or had access to the land we hunted. It was a great help that he worked cattle every day out there and knew where the goats would probably be.

To keep this on topic,, Terry would help family and friends on Saturday, but Sunday was when the paying clients got to hunt. There was always a doctor or lawyer from Denver who would pay big bucks for a trophy to hang up, and Terry knew where they were.

 

[OYE]

Guides

It's good to see there are a lot of professional guides on here. I was afraid it was all "meat hunters", "do it yourselfers", or "reality show stars". OYE

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Good info, thanks.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I actually met two professional guides out of about thirty.

 

[H&Hhunter]

or "reality show stars".

OYE,

I just got on a new reality show. It's called "Sexy Beast". We will be wearing nothing but a camo Speedo while hunting with hand made spears and slings. There will be lots of close up action shots for the viewing audience to enjoy!

 

[taliv]

usually threads about professional guides don't devolve into talking about camo banana hammocks until page 3...

 

[ZeroJunk]

Other than one trip to Canada my hunts with outfitters has all been in the Bob Marshall Wilderness in Montana. And, I have paid them over $100,000 over the years. Although that sounds like a lot of money it really isn't compared to some of the really expensive private property or reservation hunts. I would imagine on those $10,000 plus hunts you would get top notch guides because there is more money in it. On, the typical wilderness hunt the guides are pretty transient, and kids for the most part. You will find that elk like to be in certain areas within your outfitters territory and other areas they rarely ever go. Quite often you will find yourself being a dog for fellow hunters as the outfitter drops off hunters and guides to start moving in a certain direction at a prescribed time while the other hunters are taken to where Elk will likely come out. I don't have a problem with this, but once it is over they feel obligated to make you sit out there until dark to make you think they are giving you your money's worth when the hunt was basically over at 9 A.M.
Another thing that you will find is that these outfitters are not going to blow their elk out from the area for the sake of later hunts. I don't have a problem with that either other than that they still feel like they have to give you your money's worth so you spend a day in an area that elk just don't use.
Last year we could see a herd of elk up on a ridge where I had killed elk before, but we never went up there. I assume it was being saved for the next week. Or, some other reason that was never explained.

So, I miss the old days when Art just gave us a couple of horses and said have fun. If any of you have Pope an Young there is a Montana bull somewhere near the top killed by Gene Ward. He and I left the trail head alone, rode in twenty miles and that elk was dead before any of the outfitter's crew even got to camp.

 

[Grumulkin]

Quite often you will find yourself being a dog for fellow hunters as the outfitter drops off hunters and guides to start moving in a certain direction at a prescribed time while the other hunters are taken to where Elk will likely come out. I don't have a problem with this, but once it is over they feel obligated to make you sit out there until dark to make you think they are giving you your money's worth when the hunt was basically over at 9 A.M.

You must be a very forgiving man. I would have a problem with that.

Did you tip them?

 

[ZeroJunk]

Did you tip them?

I did. $400 I give it to the outfitter and he divides it up however he decides. The young guides do exactly what they are told. I don't fault them one way or the other.

It is a successful way to kill elk or the outfitter would not be doing it. And, it is not impossible, just close to it, for the "dog" to get a shot. But, once you work those fingers out there is not a lot of reason to sit on your butt up there the rest of the day. At that point elk and everything else knows you are there.

We did legally kill a couple of wolves in the process, which is why the elk were not to be found I suppose.

I liked it better when I hunted down on the Sun River. When Art, my long time outfitter, died I should have just quit going out there. It was never the same.

 

[redneck2]

I've never used a guide for hunting, but I have lots of times fishing. In one case, they intentionally took us to an area with a lot of trash fish so they would steal our bait and we'd have to buy more. Obviously the outfitter made a LOT of money off bait.

Fortunately I found a really great guide. I've caught as many as 71 largemouth in one day with him. On one trip I caught 27 in one day and he offered to cut the charge in 1/2 because we did so poorly. Few guys catch that many in a year

If anybody wants to fish Okeechobee, let me know and I will give you his name

Now, back to your original programming

 

[Ankeny]

Well, I just don't care for the whole guided hunt concept really.

Actually, I have never paid for a guided hunt. I have paid for several guided fishing trips in Canada. Do it yourself hunts are very rewarding. Just call the local game warden and he/she can point you in the right direction.

We have a couple of elk areas around here that I am intimately familiar with. The success rate across the board runs about 35% with the average number of days afield being 8 days. A couple of outfitters I know in the area are running 95%-100% success with a 2-3 day average.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Well, I fell in love with the area. And, I need an outfitter to get in and out since it is about twenty miles and no motorized anything is allowed, not even a chainsaw to cut wood. That is the biggest attraction, it is wilderness. There are a lot easier places to kill an elk.

But, If you have ever hunted a place for thirty years and have a twenty year old guide you will understand what I am talking about.

 

[gamestalker]

I just returned last night from guiding a half dozen people, some friends, others just folks that wanted a good hunt. And for me, the most satisfying part of the hunt is watching someone who has never experienced or had a successful hunt before to take a good animal.

Saturday morning was simply amazing for us. We glassed up a little buck, nothing special, but the fellow and his 11 yr. old son just wanted to get a deer. So we set his son behind his .270 win. on a Caldwell field rest, and he smoked that buck at 350 yards! I was probably more excited and satisfied than Dad was. There were high fives all the way around.

But this story has a point to it, that being, many hunters need our expertise and direction. My Son and I found another deer for Dad, and he wouldn't allow us to help him at all in getting prepared for the shot. After he wounded and lost the deer that we tracked for the rest of the day before losing all sign, I discovered that not only was he shooting a rifle that hadn't been properly sighted in, but he was also using different ammo from what he sighted in with. We had plenty of time to get him situated behind the shooting rest, which is just about 100% necessary for the wide open canyon shots often required out here in the southwest, he simply refused our assistance. So as a guide, it's often necessary to make the call, something I openly admit I should have done in this instance. We often require green horn's to print some rounds on a target before we take them into the field, but this fellow convinced us he was completely ready. End result, he lost his deer, and his 11 yr. old Son smoked his deer.

GS

 

[Andrew Leigh]

I can understand H&H's viewpoint on the quality of guides. I think there are couple of reasons for this in my experience. Obviously we are not talking of the good guides here, and there are many;

- The first would be that they are very poorly paid and rely heavily on a tipping culture to augment their income. Hence the urgency to shoot.
- The low wage entices the younger and less experienced guide.
- South Africans for the most part have yet to understand what outstanding service is and what it means and takes to make the client really happy.
- I think that many young guides simply don't understand the holistic hunt which starts with the preparation, the hand loading, the ticket buying the massive expense all incurred before the hunt begins. This extended process then finally culminates in the experience to hunt in Africa which in itself is unique. There will be huge expectation from the client not only regarding the hunt but all aspects around the hunt. The failure to recognise this will lead to a "shoot" rather than an emotion packed hunting "experience" filled with highs and lows and copious amounts of sweat and memories.

My advice would be for hunters to also communicate their expectations upfront in the hope that the outfitter will marry up the correct guide. In this I mean hunting culture, personality type etc.

 

[Bezoar]

here is what the normal, broke man takes from the whole thing.

Its common to read articles and suchlike on how cheap and easy it is to do your own self guided hunt out west. Sure for the professional hunter/writer its easy, because they have the industry relationships that let them hunt on the big blocks of private land. Land that otherwise you only get the ability to touch if you pay that 10-15,000 dollar fee.

Then the other issue is that quite a few of the hunting shows with guided hunts on these places, YOU ONLY GET TO SHOOT THE ANIMAL THAT THE GUIDE WANTS YOU TO.
For example if you see a nice big 4x4 and a barely legal animal walk buy, your most likely going to be only allowed to shoot the little squirt because the guide will be saving that massive 4x4 for the doctor/lawyer whos coming out next week because THAT guy can tip the guide 1,000 per point.

 

[H&Hhunter]

For example if you see a nice big 4x4 and a barely legal animal walk buy, your most likely going to be only allowed to shoot the little squirt because the guide will be saving that massive 4x4 for the doctor/lawyer whos coming out next week because THAT guy can tip the guide 1,000 per point.

I don't agree with this statement. A crooked guide may not take you into an area where the big 4x4 has been hanging around but if he walks by you it would take some SERIOUS cajones on the part of the guide to tell you to shoot the squirt instead. That and if it ever did happen to me that guide had better be pretty sharp with his self defense and fighting skills Because there might very well be a bit of a "rumble" getting ready to occur on his head in the very near future.

 

[OYE]

An Outfiited hunt

While we can't say that we've ever hired the services of an outfitter or guide ourselves, we do have to admit to being acquainted with a few, but not well.

We do wish to pass along the recent experience (to the best of our recollection of an acquaintance who recently returned from "the Colorado Territory" (as our
acquaintance put it) a Mr. John Smith, a learned fellow, Professor of Anthropology at a prominent Ivy League university.

According to Mr. Smith, he flew in to Colorado with high expectations, rented a 4 wheel drive rig and headed out to the 4 corners area to meet up with the outfitter that he had "retained" for the 7 day hunt. Upon arriving at the
base camp, our Mr. Smith observed the camp appeared to be "deserted", with the exception of an old yellow "tom cat".

Eventually, late in the afternoon, one individual did turn up, who was
"quite a character" as our Mr. Smith put it. The individual in question was dressed in a camoflage "speedo", according to Mr. Smith, and was clutching an atlatl in his left hand, and a short -barreled spear with a reasonable facsimile of a "clovis point" on the end. Unfortunately for Mr. Smith, the aforementioned individual was unable to speak a word of English or any other known language, which Mr. Smith found to be quite unusual, as he assured us he was familiar with "quite a few".

Our Mr. Smith, using his vast knowledge of ancient written languages, (mainly Sanskrit, Cuneiform, and "Hyeroglyphic chicken tracks") was eventually able to communicate "somewhat" with "the character" by passing notes back and forth. Thus Mr. Smith learned that the character was to be his guide for the 7 day hunt and that the oufitter had traveled to a distant town to pick up a few cases of "dish soap", as our character put it, and wasn't expected back for a few days.

To make a long story short, the communication problem with Mr. Smith's guide persisted throughout the 7 day hunt which was unsuccessful in every sense of the word, our Mr. Smith reported. Mr. Smith assured us there were no hard feelings and decided to chalk it up as a learning experience. He did
express an inkling of possibly joining the "do it youselfers" at some future date. We would offer up a quote from our Mr. Smith upon returning, as we recall. " What can one expect from retaining a hunt with inhabitants of the twilight zone." OYE

 

[H&Hhunter]

That has got to be the best whacked out guide story on the planet...

 

[ZeroJunk]

I'm liking mine much better now.

 

[gamestalker]

I don't know if it's been changed, but up until the mid 90's, a resident of New Mexico could guide without becoming licensed, as long as they did so on private land. This was a particular problem IMO, in that a lot of folks would spend big bucks to be guided by some guy who had little to no professional experience, not to mention sub adequate field accommodations. This can become a rather risky proposition when hunting in the New Mexico wilderness, not literally wilderness, but you get the idea. Many private lands are 10's of thousands of acres in size, with weather systems all their own. One major unexpected snow storm could put both clients and inexperienced guides in serious peril, if not properly prepared and outfitted for such.

GS